Darwinism and model rocketry GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

[CharlaineC]

Ok so I admit that i like stupid human tricks and Darwinism in action shows like viva la bam, jackass, and jackass the movie one and two. So anyway the other day on TV they showed jackass 2.5 where they talk about the stunts and stuff. Well one of the scenes are the guys running into the kitchen oh bams house and firing off model rockets while holding half of the launch rod and blast plate. Nearly hitting bams mother and even burning their carpet. This really ticked me off to the point i was angry the rest of the night.

Well today I was farting around YouTube watching some launch videos and I found a number of horrid videos that give model rocketry a bad name. Some evolved live payloads. (MICE AND RATS) others are using model rockets like missiles and aimed at things.

I understand that the N.A.R. safety code no longer supports live payloads such as mice and rats and rightfully so. I don’t understand how people can do this still. I found 5 videos pertaining to this type of payload. One of witch was preformed by a so-called college professor who took the time to make sure the mice where going to be safe, To the point of having a vet on the launch site. They used all sorts of equipment on the rocket witch where upper mpr almost L1 hpr rockets. All to test some sort of compression chamber and the rat and mice reaction during high g. This video though upsetting was nothing like the others I found. some just tossed a mouse in a rocket no payload bay just in the rocket on the wadding, laughing as they launched making comments about the mouse learning to fly. The others involved tossing the mice in the payload bay protected or not and trying to recover it just for fun. HOW IS THIS FUN.

All have been marked to be removed from YouTube as violations of their policies. What I want to know is why in god’s good name do people still do this sort of thing. Is this the new stick a firecracker up a frog or something? Because it makes me sick.

I might be over reacting but it hurts me to think that people like this could cause us to loose our hobby in some way either places we can fly or state making it harder for us to do so. Is their something as a community we could do to help combat the harm these rejects form humanity cause. Or am I just over reacting.

 

[Gillard]

unfortunately, some people are just sad, stupid, or plain evil. i agree with you, i just don't know why anyone would cause distress to an animal for fun.

on the other side, there is a u tube clip of someone launching a model rocket up his own backside:surprised:, the rocket actually sticks in!! - now if they want to hurt themselves -thats a different matter.

 

[gpoehlein]

I should also point out that the Model Rocket Code is only a set of guidelines, and unfortunately, not the law. You can't get arrested (or even a fine) for violating them. So although WE all agree that following them is a good idea, there area always some childish morons who think doing something rude, dangerous and potentially life-threatening is COOL. Remember that these are the people your mother warned you about ("If Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?") Read about crowd psychology sometime - how normally sane and sensible individuals will, once egged on by a large group of people, do things that are totally out of character most of the time.

 

[jflis]

Many times I take things like this with a grain of salt. While I agree they are stupid/cruel and such, I don't really know if they do all that much in giving rocketry a bad name.

Case in point, check out this YouTube video.

I very much doubt that this gives baseball a bad name nor do I think it will cause the cancellation of local Babe Ruth league baseball... It just shows a rube with too much time, not enough smarts, and a video camera. And there are a LOT of them out there... LOL

Now, on the other hand, if you see a TV program that portrays rocketry in a bad or incorrect light I think it's a good thing to contact the show and correct them. I've seen this a number of times and have reacted. Not sure if it does any good but I feel good about it

fwiw,
jim

 

[Peartree]

FWIW, I've been told that children/young adults who have a history of cruelty to animals have a far higher probability of later being arrested for violent crimes against humans. Probably something to do with empathy, sympathy, compassion, etc...

 

[Starcommander]

FWIW, I've been told that children/young adults who have a history of cruelty to animals have a far higher probability of later being arrested for violent crimes against humans. Probably something to do with empathy, sympathy, compassion, etc...

You have been told right.They lack empathy and compassion. To self centered.

 

[hokkyokusei]

Probably something to do with empathy, sympathy, compassion, etc...

Exactly.

 

[graylensman]

Charlaine, I understand your feelings. A suggestion- if you're a member of a rocketry club or chapter, see if you can get someone from local press (newspaper or tv) to visit a launch. Better if you tie it in with some sort of outreach thing, like inviting a cub scout pack to fly or something. It may not have the reach of YouTube, but I think it does have some effect.

 

[tquigg]

FWIW, I've been told that children/young adults who have a history of cruelty to animals have a far higher probability of later being arrested for violent crimes against humans. Probably something to do with empathy, sympathy, compassion, etc...

Sadly true. The jail at the Sheriff's Office where I work is full of folks like these.

 

[powderburner]

I should also point out that the Model Rocket Code is only a set of guidelines, and unfortunately, not the law. You can't get arrested (or even a fine) for violating them.

Actually, yes you can.

The MR safety code mirrors the NFPA rules on what makes a model rocket legally different from fireworks. Most communities don't have the city budget to hire "experts" to write their own laws about rocketry, so they adopt the NFPA guidelines into the city statutes word-for-word. (Check your own town and see; if they have anything at all about model rocketry it will probably be a reference to the NFPA materials.)

If a city adopts the NFPA guidelines as their own city "laws" then the above-mentioned offenses are indeed cause to be arrested and prosecuted--- to the extent that the city cares anything about controlling illegal fireworks---and most cities don't. It is just waaaay down their list of stuff to get done.

As to the idiots and aXXXXXXs that do this stupid stuff, we have always had them amongst us. Venues like youtube simply make this behavior more widely known, but it has always been there and (human nature being what it is) will likely continue to always be there.

You can take some small amount of satisfaction in knowing that these people occasionally remove themselves from the gene pool.

 

[CharlaineC]

Thank you All for your responces. I'll be it it still baffles me in come ways. you all have mand good points and I thank you. i guess I got over emotional over the harm to the mice and rats.

 

[KDRaven]

I gess that I had better keep my two female rats from my computer so they will not see those videos and my rockets. They might get the wrong idea of me.

 

[shockwaveriderz]

Actually, yes you can.

The MR safety code mirrors the NFPA rules on what makes a model rocket legally different from fireworks. Most communities don't have the city budget to hire "experts" to write their own laws about rocketry, so they adopt the NFPA guidelines into the city statutes word-for-word. (Check your own town and see; if they have anything at all about model rocketry it will probably be a reference to the NFPA materials.)

If a city adopts the NFPA guidelines as their own city "laws" then the above-mentioned offenses are indeed cause to be arrested and prosecuted--- to the extent that the city cares anything about controlling illegal fireworks---and most cities don't. It is just waaaay down their list of stuff to get done.

As to the idiots and aXXXXXXs that do this stupid stuff, we have always had them amongst us. Venues like youtube simply make this behavior more widely known, but it has always been there and (human nature being what it is) will likely continue to always be there.

You can take some small amount of satisfaction in knowing that these people occasionally remove themselves from the gene pool.

The likihood of anybody being arested by a fire official for violation of the MOdel Rocketry NFPA code is zero to none.

NObody in its 40 years history has ever been arrested or charged with a violation of the NFPA Model Rocketry fire code.

Its highly unlikely that this would ever happen as the fire officiali would have to be present as you pulled your own dumb stunt. Then you would have to point out to the fire official which fire code regulation you broke; then he would have to agree with your interpretation. See. its really hard work getting yourself busted for for violating the NFPA Model Rocketry fire code.

NFPA is a joke as far as it being an enforcement mechinism. Its all smoke and mirrors and like the Wizard of Oz, theres nothing behind the curtains. Its an illusion. Thats why the state I live in, Indiana, its State Fire Marshal had the NFPA trilogy revoked as fire code because he understands it to be "unenforceable". Its "law on the books" for the sake of a law being on the books. Like all regulations, they are easy to get passed and hell to get rid off.


EDIT

From a historical viewpoint I think the NAR MRSC was mirrored by NFPA regulations. The original NAR/MMA MRSC allowed amateur rocketry; thats right, ou could build and use your own motors in the NAR. This lasted for approx. a 3 year period from 1958-1961.

There is much speculation as to why the NAR initially allowed this, before getting on the "Youth Rocketry Problem" and "Basement Bomber" bandwagons, but with hindsight being 20/20, it appears it was designed to "co-opt" Ar types into the safer hobby of Model Rocketry which is exactly what it did: large numbers of the orginal NAr membership were originally AR types ; so this co-option was a good thing as it saved life and limb.

In 1961, the NAR MRSC was change to the version that we more or less know it today with major modifications of course. But the NAR MRSC and the Estes MRSC which was based on the NAR MRSC were always Voluntary; unless of course you were a NAR member then it of course is mandatory.

If you look at the various MRSC from various manufacturers and the circa 1961-62 NAR MRSC you will see there are slight variations in wording from company to company.

In the early circa 62-63 time frame G. Hary Stine got with the then head of the NFPA, Fire Marshal Carroll Shaw and they hatched out the current fire code regulatory framework. The original idea had been to create a "Model Omnibus" model rocket law that could be adopted by state legislatures; unfortunately this ran into numerous roadblocks in a number of states; Connecticut was the the 1st state to implement a state wide model rocket law in 1963. Carroll Shaw just happened to be the State Fire Marshal of Connecticut. As early as 12/1957, the state fire marshal of Connecticut banned all homemade and amateur rocketry flights.

The 1st mouse that was launched in a rocket occurred in Minnesota by an amateur rocketry group in 12/1957. It achieved an altitude of 1,642 ft.

The decision was then made to implement model rocket regulation via the NFPA fire code process.

The NAR MRSC is included in NFPA 1122 solely for informational purposes only as it is stated so in NFPA 1122.


just my 2 cents

YMMV



terry dean

 

[SCE to AUX]

Could you even BE arrested for a fire code violation?

That would seem to be a civil violation, punishable by a fine, not imprisonment.

 

[SpartaChris]

Well, you can't regulate stupid. I mean, you can make laws based on common sense, but stupid people are always going to be stupid, and there's nothing anyone will be able to do about that.

As far as launching critters goes, while I agree that it's a disgusting practice, we simply cannot police the world's use of model rockets. Besides, if it weren't model rockets, it would be something else. It's a never ending cycle that won't likely ever be stopped.