Crazy Idea

[Cody Webster]

So I have had this crazy idea for a while and wanted to see if anyone has thought of or tried this before. Could you have a "smoke bomb" trail? For instance a single deployeemnet rocket, with a dd and the 2nd deployeement would trigger a "smoke bomb" on its way down or close to landing. I know there are devices for tracking but im thinking of a cheaper solution for rockets that you dont want to spend a lot of money on. I know there are a few issues with this idea but I also believe there could be some cool and creative solutions for this as well.

 

[cwbullet]

I thought about it, but the smoke generates heat and a flame. You could do it in a separate tube beside the motor.

 

[iter]

I've done that succesfully, but on apogee channel. Gives you a nice thick smoke trail to follow when the rocket is least visible. You can easily add another one in parallel with main, to locate the rocket once it lands.

The heat has not been a problem for me, but I do get some pigment deposits on parts of my recovery harness closest to the smoke generator. They are about on par with BP residue, but in different colors :=)

Ari.

 

[MClark]

There is a risk of starting a fire on the ground.
Even after the smoke is done parts may be smoldering.

M

 

[John Beans]

There are a variety of non-flame, cool burning ones for air soft and skydiving.

 

[Cody Webster]

Problems with this idea:

Problem 1, Heat damage to rocket.
Problem 2, Timing and ignition of smoking device.
Problem 3, Possible fire starter.

Solutions:

Problem 1, Obvious answer is to have the device deploy from the rocket minimizing the chances of damaging the rocket.
Problem 2, testing required and not to this stage at the moment.
Problem 3, I believe there are some solutions here, if the device is contained correctly I believe this could be avoided. A small metal container with vent holes within another container could minimize the possibility of starting a fire.

Research:

Timing and deployment.
Ways of producing smoke with minimal heat and discharge of material that could start a fire once landed.
Types and materials to produce the smoke with.

 

[blackjack2564]

I tought about it, but the smoke generates heat and a flame. You could do it in a separate tube beside the motor.

Yeeeeeuuup. Did that way ..way back. Turns out the commercially available 1 minute long burn smoke bombs [Cannon Mammoth, I believe] would fit perfectly inside the 38mm AT 360 or 480 case [been 10yrs or more????] Drill out used reload nozzle slide over fuse to keep hate damage from case. Extend fuse into motor plume for ignition at launch...Worked well no fire starter issue. [whole thing contained, I tested it on ground in dry grass]
Stuck it in a 38 hole next to motor.

Then I learned a much simpler way that would work in ANY size rocket......called a TRACKER. [electronic] the only way to go.

 

[JohnCoker]

I have tried this with white and colored smoke. The colored smoke is easier to see, but fouls the inside of the body tube and laundry. In the end, it wasn't all that effective.

The "smoke candles" from Safe-Vue can have their fuses replaced with electric matches and DaveyFire 28Fs work well.

 

[rfuss]

So I have had this crazy idea for a while and wanted to see if anyone has thought of or tried this before. Could you have a "smoke bomb" trail? For instance a single deployeemnet rocket, with a dd and the 2nd deployeement would trigger a "smoke bomb" on its way down or close to landing. I know there are devices for tracking but im thinking of a cheaper solution for rockets that you dont want to spend a lot of money on. I know there are a few issues with this idea but I also believe there could be some cool and creative solutions for this as well.

Been lurking a month or so as I get back into the hobby, and a bit of an odd one for a first post, but:


Made this random oddity 10-15years ago when I decided as a kid to launch just motors with fins on them. So this has a consumer-fireworks grade smoke stick, maybe 30-60sec burn time, with 3 C6-5s attached. Would need fins, and there is no recovery. Can't see ever launching it now unless out into the ocean or lake.

 

[Cody Webster]

I have tried this with white and colored smoke. The colored smoke is easier to see, but fouls the inside of the body tube and laundry. In the end, it wasn't all that effective.

The "smoke candles" from Safe-Vue can have their fuses replaced with electric matches and DaveyFire 28Fs work well.

My Idea is to have the smoking unit deploy from the rocket, or (really crazy here) have a chamber within the body tube that would vent the smoke and exhaust out of the rocket. Wanted to throw some stuff to the walls and see what sticks. I appreciate everyones input thusfar.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Here's an even crazier idea. Having a payload section that, when the rocket has landed, fills and releases a tethered helium-filled balloon. I have no idea how you would do this. There are small helium cartridges available (like the nitrous "whippets" and CO2 cartridges).

 

[Cody Webster]

Here's an even crazier idea. Having a payload section that, when the rocket has landed, fills and releases a tethered helium-filled balloon. I have no idea how you would do this. There are small helium cartridges available (like the nitrous "whippets" and CO2 cartridges).

That is a great idea! I believe we are in the same train of thought here.

 

[Nathan]

I have done this. Several years ago I built a modified Estes CC Express with a wire mesh payload section to hold a smoke bomb. I'm travelling today but when I get home I'll post some pics.

 

[pythonrock]

I asked about donig this many years ago and was told it was strictly against the safety code.
If it's allowed, I have some building to catch up on.

 

[woferry]

So any idea how something like the Safe-Vue candles would work if giving off smoke during ascent? I'm wrapping up a Nike Smoke and have wanted some way to actually produce the smoke, of course the chemical used on the real thing is really nasty stuff so there's no way that's happening. The different size candles all seem to give off 133CF of smoke per second (though there's also a 'smoke grenade' that gives off like 10x the smoke), and the smallest 30s candle would obviously cover the entire 'up part' of a flight provided it could be started at launch detect or burn-out. I have lots of room in the nose (though probably not enough for the grenade), so suddenly I'm really tempted to try something like this, though I'd obviously have to make sure it'd be okay with the places where I launch first (and it probably wouldn't be, but now the crazy idea is planted in my head...

 

[bobkrech]

The NAR High Power Safety codes says that flammable and explosive payloads are prohibited. Since it echoes NFPA 1127,I'm assuming that's that's the TRA interpretation as well.

The smoke charge is generated by combustion and the warnings for the smoke cartridges state to keep away from combustible materials. They are shipped as 1.4 explosives. They are not a propulsive units nor are they ejection charges which are both permitted. They are a payload which generates smoke.

I think it's pretty clear they are not permitted.

Bob

 

[Cody Webster]

The NAR High Power Safety codes says that flammable and explosive payloads are prohibited. Since it echoes NFPA 1127,I'm assuming that's that's the TRA interpretation as well.

The smoke charge is generated by combustion and the warnings for the smoke cartridges state to keep away from combustible materials. They are shipped as 1.4 explosives. They are not a propulsive units nor are they ejection charges which are both permitted. They are a payload which generates smoke.

I think it's pretty clear they are not permitted.

Bob

So this would not fly at any sanctioned event, but is it illegal to do on your own property for instance?

 

[rharshberger]

So this would not fly at any sanctioned event, but is it illegal to do on your own property for instance?

Pretty sure that NFPA 1127 which prohibits flammable and explosive payloads would be the regulation enforced at all times even on private launches.

 

[Cody Webster]

Pretty sure that NFPA 1127 which prohibits flammable and explosive payloads would be the regulation enforced at all times even on private launches.

To clarify (may not be applicable but) Im not talking about Hpr. I looked up and read NFPA 1127, does this apply to all rockets or just Hpr?

 

[Cody Webster]

Im just playing around with lpr kits, this wouldnt be something that would be normal practice. More of a one time project/experiment.

 

[iter]

The NAR High Power Safety codes says that flammable and explosive payloads are prohibited. Since it echoes NFPA 1127,I'm assuming that's that's the TRA interpretation as well.

The smoke charge is generated by combustion and the warnings for the smoke cartridges state to keep away from combustible materials. They are shipped as 1.4 explosives. They are not a propulsive units nor are they ejection charges which are both permitted. They are a payload which generates smoke.

I think it's pretty clear they are not permitted.

Bob

Oh-oh, Bob, I think I've been violating the rules this whole time! I have smoke generators at the top of my motors... They are not propulsive, and I use plugged closures, so they are not for ejection charges... Thank you for bringing this to my attention, no more smoke for me!

Ari.

 

[bobkrech]

To clarify (may not be applicable but) Im not talking about Hpr. I looked up and read NFPA 1127, does this apply to all rockets or just Hpr?

Please read Section 4.6 in NFPA 1122 for Model Rockets, and Section 4.11.1 in NFPA 1127 for High Power Rockets, on the specific prohibition of flammable and explosive payloads.

NFPA 1122 and 1127 are in effect in most states. From https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/section-guidebook/laws-regulations/

In those states which have adopted a law implementing all NFPA codes, either by adoption of NFPA Code 1 or the International Fire Code (IFC), then the NFPA Codes 1122 and 1127 on rocketry are specifically in effect state-wide unless overridden by a specific state or local law. The NFPA 1/IFC states are the following:
Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania (specifically adopted NFPA 1122 & 1127)
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington (state)
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

Your state in included.

Bob

 

[Cody Webster]

Please read Section 4.6 in NFPA 1122 for Model Rockets, and Section 4.11.1 in NFPA 1127 for High Power Rockets, on the specific prohibition of flammable and explosive payloads.

NFPA 1122 and 1127 are in effect in most states. From https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/section-guidebook/laws-regulations/

In those states which have adopted a law implementing all NFPA codes, either by adoption of NFPA Code 1 or the International Fire Code (IFC), then the NFPA Codes 1122 and 1127 on rocketry are specifically in effect state-wide unless overridden by a specific state or local law. The NFPA 1/IFC states are the following:
Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania (specifically adopted NFPA 1122 & 1127)
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington (state)
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

Your state in included.

Bob

Bummer

 

[tab28682]

Easy enough to do without pyro items that are against the rules, especially with LPR and MPR.

Have your DD system kick out a large (large as is practical for your rocket) charge of talcum powder or colored chalk powder at low altitude during the DD. Could also do it at first deploy at apogee. Not an uncommon practice with model rockets.

Will not help you locate the model on the ground after landing, but you REALLY don't want a smoke bomb buring on the ground, in any case.

 

[dhbarr]

Have your DD system kick out a large (large as is practical for your rocket) charge of talcum powder or colored chalk powder at low altitude during the DD. Could also do it at first deploy at apogee. Not an uncommon practice with model rockets.

Apogee charge also starts a battery-operated worm gear which functions as an augur to stream hi-vis powder for X seconds? Just a thought.

 

[John Beans]

Apogee charge also starts a battery-operated worm gear which functions as an augur to stream hi-vis powder for X seconds? Just a thought.

Just a "leaky box" would be fine.