"Cert racing" vs. skills development and creativity

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I can't engage in making EX motors without it, even though I'm only interested in researching small ones. (It really doesn't make sense to me that I'll need my L2 in order to fly home made 13 mm B motors at a sanctioned event, but those are the rules.)

I thought I was the only one. I'm working on a rocket for an L2 attempt right now with the main goal of flying small sugar motors. I very well might end up flying larger ones with the cert "because I can" but I can fly A-F motors much more often than anything larger.

I thought L1 was easy and rather uneventful. I built a rocket for the attempt, but didn't try any new skills. I put an H in it with the appropriate drilled delay with motor eject and that was it. No fuss or stress.
 
I honestly don't know where this is coming from. I don't mean that I have seen this behavior, but I've seen it only a couple of times, and seen almost everyone around looking askance at it and/or urging the people to slow down.
The reason I say this is because there is SO much to learn at each level of rocketry. I've seen people that have certain certification levels but don't have a lot of the basic skills you would associate with that cert level because they had others basically doing things for them, and they didn't take the time to learn it themselves. L1 is simple...if you've done mid-power, you can do L1. L2...there's more to it...just because you can build a rocket to do apogee deployment and recover safely on a 29mm H165R doesn't mean you're ready to build something that can handle a J350W. There are lots of things that need to be learned and understood.
 
I agree with much mentioned here.

Personally I feel it comes down to what your happiness is...is it level achievements, bigger motors, bigger rockets, research motors, or some mix?

Plus it also depends on where you can do this. For me the nearby club has a 4500' waiver, so I'm very happy with L2 and really lovin' it :D, but I also fly tons of LP because it's simpler, less stressful, and easier to try experimental rocket designs.

My biggest advice? Don't rush it and enjoy the journey and adventure. :)
 
Bigger is not better. Try MMX competition! ;)

You can spend a lifetime experimenting with LPR (and D's and E's MPR). Like the OP said, with surface mounted electronics using LiPo or LiOn batteries, you can get away with a lot of cool rocket flights.

As an aside about DD, someone told me that pyrotechnics are not allowed in Model Rockets. I missed that in the NFPA code (or did I?).

If I had not bought years ago, I'd be in the, "No way can I afford to burn $50 to $100 a flight" group. I have ALWAYS said, take your time.
Don't burn through the hobby and then 'burn out' (pun?).
 
As an aside about DD, someone told me that pyrotechnics are not allowed in Model Rockets. I missed that in the NFPA code (or did I?).
Probably a misunderstanding of NFPA 1122 section 4.6 Model Rocket Payloads, which says "A model rocket shall not carry a payload that is designed to be flammable, explosive, or harmful to persons or property."

Recovery charges aren't payload IMO. I'm not a lawyer, fire chief, or in any way connected to NFPA, but based on the careful wording 1122 and other NFPA standards, I believe that if the NFPA wanted to regulate recovery charges under this section, they would have given a definition of payload under section 3.3 General Definitions or, more likely, would have addressed a prohibition of recovery charges elsewhere in the document.
 
Probably a misunderstanding of NFPA 1122 section 4.6 Model Rocket Payloads, which says "A model rocket shall not carry a payload that is designed to be flammable, explosive, or harmful to persons or property."

Recovery charges aren't payload IMO. I'm not a lawyer, fire chief, or in any way connected to NFPA, but based on the careful wording 1122 and other NFPA standards, I believe that if the NFPA wanted to regulate recovery charges under this section, they would have given a definition of payload under section 3.3 General Definitions or, more likely, would have addressed a prohibition of recovery charges elsewhere in the document.
I totally agree. However I believe he is hanging his hat on the idea that BP, unless used in an old gun or as intended by a motor manufacturer in the ejection well, is a regulated material and therefore one should have an LEUP to being using it for any other purpose (like ejection charges). Whereas his claim is Smokeless is allowed.

Anyways I am sure there is a thread (or 10) about whether it is legal to use BP without an LEUP for anything other than a flintlock or a motor based ejection charge. So I'll not steal anymore of this thread
 
Yes, I think it's the forum software that confuses things by summarizing a linked post on the forum with the start of the first post of the page on which the post appeared, not the actual linked post. Very strange software behavior that's been bugging me for a while.
 
Odd thing. You can do all sorts of complex and interesting things and NEVER go beyond say 24mm AP. Multiple stages and clustering come to mind.
Like most, I have seen peeps burn through the hobby and then they are gone. Rocketry Comets. Cert racing is an ego thing IMO. And rocketry attracts egos and "I like things that go boom!" Alas, I have never had that kind of ego. Poor me. Which is why people call me an "Intellectual" as if that were a bad thing.
 
Odd thing. You can do all sorts of complex and interesting things and NEVER go beyond say 24mm AP. Multiple stages and clustering come to mind.
Like most, I have seen peeps burn through the hobby and then they are gone. Rocketry Comets. Cert racing is an ego thing IMO. And rocketry attracts egos and "I like things that go boom!" Alas, I have never had that kind of ego. Poor me. Which is why people call me an "Intellectual" as if that were a bad thing.
Electronic deployments, reloads, altitude record attempts, novel recovery systems, scale modeling, egg lofting, oddrocs, all kinds of unconventional building materials…

If you’re racing to L2 and dropping out because you think there is nothing else to try, you have no imagination.
 
Most on this thread want to take certifications slow and play with rockets at whatever level they are interested in. That's great. I have found over the years, there are a lot of things that interest people in rocketry. Trying new things is usually some part of why they are into rockets, but not always their main interest.

I know some where painting and finishing the rocket is the thing! They use automotive show car grade finishes because that's what they enjoy. The bigger the rocket, the more the great paint shows off, and it's much cheaper then buying cars to paint.

I've met some where the electronics is the thing. Either building their own or using the latest and greatest in ways the older models couldn't.

For some it's the photography and cinematography. They have long lenses on their high end cameras, movie cameras on all their rockets, and ground based cameras on or around the launch pad.

Some just want to see as much smoke and flame as they can. It might be G motors at 30 feet or M motors at 500 feet, but for them it's all about smoke, flame, and louds noises.

Some are into chemistry and want to make motors and wring every Ns out of their creations and ultimately test them in flight.

Some want to design and build new items, whether it's rockets, or piece parts for rockets, built with exotic composites, mill and machine things, or 3D print them and then ultimately test some of their creations in fight.

Some are altitude junkies. They want to wring every inch of altitude out of every rocket and any rocket that can go higher than the last one is the new favorite.

Some are service oriented. They want to be pad managers, RSO, LCO, BOD, committee chairs, etc. Anything that can be of service to the club or their fellow rocketeers.

Some are social butterflies. They want to meet new people, spend time with old and new friends, and fly because it's a good excuse to talk about the rockets, the flights, and just keep them connected to the other club members.

Some are goal driven, the next cert, the next altitude level, the next motor size, etc. It's all about the next goal they set for themselves.

All of these folks have a common interest in rocketry and each has some interest, to varying degrees, in each of these areas. Each will approach rocketry differently and each will have their own motivations for doing cert levels. Life circumstances plays a part in it too. Financial resources, family or job responsibly, geological location, etc.

Over the last 20 years I've been fortunate enough to meet and learn things from all of these various types of rocketeers. That is why I think the best motto for model rocketry is: Build and fly however and whatever you get the most enjoyment from.

Of course, like many of the Sheldon Cooper types around here, that won't stop me from telling you what I think is the best way you should be doing things... :D
 
Most on this thread want to take certifications slow and play with rockets at whatever level they are interested in. That's great. I have found over the years, there are a lot of things that interest people in rocketry. Trying new things is usually some part of why they are into rockets, but not always their main interest.

I know some where painting and finishing the rocket is the thing! They use automotive show car grade finishes because that's what they enjoy. The bigger the rocket, the more the great paint shows off, and it's much cheaper then buying cars to paint.

I've met some where the electronics is the thing. Either building their own or using the latest and greatest in ways the older models couldn't.

For some it's the photography and cinematography. They have long lenses on their high end cameras, movie cameras on all their rockets, and ground based cameras on or around the launch pad.

Some just want to see as much smoke and flame as they can. It might be G motors at 30 feet or M motors at 500 feet, but for them it's all about smoke, flame, and louds noises.

Some are into chemistry and want to make motors and wring every Ns out of their creations and ultimately test them in flight.

Some want to design and build new items, whether it's rockets, or piece parts for rockets, built with exotic composites, mill and machine things, or 3D print them and then ultimately test some of their creations in fight.

Some are altitude junkies. They want to wring every inch of altitude out of every rocket and any rocket that can go higher than the last one is the new favorite.

Some are service oriented. They want to be pad managers, RSO, LCO, BOD, committee chairs, etc. Anything that can be of service to the club or their fellow rocketeers.

Some are social butterflies. They want to meet new people, spend time with old and new friends, and fly because it's a good excuse to talk about the rockets, the flights, and just keep them connected to the other club members.

Some are goal driven, the next cert, the next altitude level, the next motor size, etc. It's all about the next goal they set for themselves.

All of these folks have a common interest in rocketry and each has some interest, to varying degrees, in each of these areas. Each will approach rocketry differently and each will have their own motivations for doing cert levels. Life circumstances plays a part in it too. Financial resources, family or job responsibly, geological location, etc.

Over the last 20 years I've been fortunate enough to meet and learn things from all of these various types of rocketeers. That is why I think the best motto for model rocketry is: Build and fly however and whatever you get the most enjoyment from.

Of course, like many of the Sheldon Cooper types around here, that won't stop me from telling you what I think is the best way you should be doing things... :D
the post to end this thread on :bravo: :goodjob:
 
Back
Top