Cardstock Soyuz

[BobH48]

I looked at the Mercury-Atlas and was very impressed. But did I miss something? The instructions I downloaded didn't finish up the "how to make this fly" part.

I think it's not finished.. I noticed that the instructions that I had downloaded a while back were incomplete. I downloaded the current set of instructions and this PDF was twice as long as the one I previously had but still not complete. I think it's a work in progress.

Each of the revisions on the parts has the previous parts plus additional parts.

 

[Rocketcrab]

I think it's not finished.. I noticed that the instructions that I had downloaded a while back were incomplete. I downloaded the current set of instructions and this PDF was twice as long as the one I previously had but still not complete. I think it's a work in progress.

Each of the revisions on the parts has the previous parts plus additional parts.

OK, thanks!

 

[mike_bar]

Thanks. I pulled out my pack of cardstock. It's "Wausau Exact Index" listed at 110 lbs. Anyone here used that stuff?

I have something simular, but mine is 67 lb.

I have Wausau Exact Vellum Bristol Cardstock 67 lb (145 gsm)

The Wausau "Exact" products all have a very smooth finish and roll well. You should be fine.

Edit: The Wausau Exact card is recommended on many card model forums.

 

[Frank Claunch]

Bob, and anyone instrested in a good paper model of a Soyus FG or Soyus ST/2-1A. Paper Warbirds has a good paper model in 1/100 scale of the Soyus at https://www.paperwarbirds.net/content.do?page=page.1_morspace .

Would make a good flyer next to ESTES 1/100 scale Saturn 1B and Saturn V.

 

[BobH48]

Good news for me!

I found a sheet of the old cardstock with just a little printed on one side. I printed a new booster cone on the back and there was nothing on the other side of the white to show through. So, it looks like I will only need to rebuild 1 booster.

I have tried to roll the escape tower and it just doesn't want to roll without creasing using 110 lb. stock so I am going to reprint it on 65 lb. stock and that should make it easier. Little tubes are a pain.

The tower is going to take a beating on landings unless I come up with a way to get the capsule section to recover sideways

 

[GuyNoir]

Ok, I now "get it" re: the 65 lb. cardstock. I got some at Office Depot today, printed a test page and tried rolling a cone that I guarantee would have taken me 15 minutes and looked like c**p when I got done, and had a perfect product in 3 minutes.

Guess I'm going to be reprinting a bunch of models now. . .

 

[mike_bar]

Assuming CMASS does NARCON in 2009 or 10 I'm sure we could persuade Bob to do his presentation. It's worth waiting for.

[Mini hijack of cardstock thread]

I am sorry to have passed on NEMROC 2007, but funds are limited so no travel for me.

I have time to save up for 2009, even if I do not find that elusive ‘career’ job.

I would love to see Bob’s presentation, impromptu or otherwise.

Regards,
Mike
CMASS Member now living in Sunny Florida

 

[BobH48]

Ok, I now "get it" re: the 65 lb. cardstock. I got some at Office Depot today, printed a test page and tried rolling a cone that I guarantee would have taken me 15 minutes and looked like c**p when I got done, and had a perfect product in 3 minutes.

Guess I'm going to be reprinting a bunch of models now. . .

I generally use 65 lb. cardstock on tubes about 3/4" (BT-20) or smaller and use 110 lb. cardstock for larger tubes. Cones are a special pain in the a**.

For a larger model I might end up using both sizes depending on the part being made.

 

[mike_bar]

Bob,

Do not forget your Presentation paper for those teenie-weenie tubes.

Bob has lots of ideas we all can learn from.

There are many techniques for using card, and the specialized form of the hobby we do, constructing flying paper rockets.

Regards,
Mike

 

[BobH48]

Mike,

Thanks for the PR but I don't think I'm a guru or anything. I have just tried a lot of different things and keep the techniques that work best for me.

There are other good cardmodelers that post here and I'm sure that they have their own techniques that work equally well for them. I enjoy following their builds and look to see if they are doing something differently that I can try.

I think a lot of people intimidate themselves. They see the finished product and believe that it's beyond their ability. Rubbish, I say! Once the tubes are rolled, the fins and nose cone made, it's a matter of putting the parts together just like you were using "real" model rocket parts. I urge people to just try one. It may not be a show stopper but the next one will be better and the next one even better.

I would not suggest this Soyuz for a first effort.

The models I made 3 years ago may not be as smooth and neat as the ones I make now but I was (and still am) proud of each one and still fly the ones that are in good repair.

[/soapbox]

Now that I've put you all to sleep, I fixed the booster that got crushed and glued the boosters to the main body. I'll try and get a picture posted later.

 

[BobH48]

I've glued the boosters on. It turned out that I didn't need to make the support trusses triple thickness after all. They only hold the boosters in position and the booster is glued along the full length of the conical sections.

I also rolled the escape tower and it is a big pain. It's hard to roll that small even with 65 lb. paper. I made the tower twice and used the best one. It still has some minor creasing but looks good if you don't get too close.

The major construction is done and I will be starting on the details. The nozzles on the escape tower are tiny. The grids need to be made and there are nozzles for the boosters.

View attachment Soyuz w_boosters.JPG

View attachment Soyuz w_boosters2.JPG

 

[mike_bar]

I also rolled the escape tower and it is a big pain. It's hard to roll that small even with 65 lb. paper.

Beautiful work Bob.

I thought you liked to use Presentation paper for tiny tubes?

 

[BobH48]

Beautiful work Bob.

I thought you liked to use Presentation paper for tiny tubes?

The presentation paper is a high gloss almost like photo paper and I didn't think that it would look right with the rest of the model. An alternative would have been to make it from regular printer paper and roll up an extra piece to put inside. I might just try that because I didn't glue the cone to the top yet.

 

[dtomko]

Bob,

That looks fantastic! Excellent work.

I would just use regular paper on tiny parts like the escape tower and nozzles.

Drew

 

[BobH48]

Bob,

That looks fantastic! Excellent work.

I would just use regular paper on tiny parts like the escape tower and nozzles.

Drew

Drew,
This is a big model and I thought that I could do the escape tower in cardstock. I should have done the small tube with regular paper and the larger tube with 65 lb. paper.

I can still go back and make another because I didn't glue the cone with the escape tower on yet. It's just glued to the coupler so that I can use the space for nose weight. I was only going to glue it on after balancing.

The nozzles for the boosters and the vector nozzles are big enough for cardstock so I only had to fight with 4 nozzles for the tower and I got those done.

 

[boris katan]

This rocket is beautiful.

What are the height, width and weight so far?

If I read Ton Noteboom's paper rockets web page correctly, it looks like his designs are display models with inter-stage detail - Is that correct?

So you are taking the exterior detail and building it to fly. Look forward to seeing it go up.

 

[BobH48]

This rocket is beautiful.

What are the height, width and weight so far?

If I read Ton Noteboom's paper rockets web page correctly, it looks like his designs are display models with inter-stage detail - Is that correct?

So you are taking the exterior detail and building it to fly. Look forward to seeing it go up.

Hi Boris,

Yes, you are correct. This model is designed mainly as a display model. This is typical of most of the scale paper models on the web. We just take them and convert them for flight.

At this point, the height is 41.25", the span across the boosters is 7.625" and the total weight is 5.2 oz.

We only stand to gain .5" when the booster nozzles are added and the little fins on the boosters are only .625" long.

I won't be adding much weight with the final details and a couple coats of clear spray.

I don't know how much nose weight will be required but I plan on using the balance point of my 13mm Soyuz model as a starting point for this model.

The parachute compartment is pretty far forward so I'm hoping that the weight of the shock cord and parachute help with the balance,

 

[Tom Swift]

Fantastic build thread and a beautiful rocket! Thanks for sharing.

I've made a few Applewhite saucers and Fliskits creations, but am fairly new to working with cardstock. Making good cones is tough! It always seemed to me that cardstock would be more pliable and less likely to wrinkle with just a wee bit of moisture. Haven't tried it yet though. I have a "cold steam" humidifier somewhere but can't seem to find it...

Your thoughts?

 

[BobH48]

Fantastic build thread and a beautiful rocket! Thanks for sharing.

I've made a few Applewhite saucers and Fliskits creations, but am fairly new to working with cardstock. Making good cones is tough! It always seemed to me that cardstock would be more pliable and less likely to wrinkle with just a wee bit of moisture. Haven't tried it yet though. I have a "cold steam" humidifier somewhere but can't seem to find it...

Your thoughts?

It does seem that cardstock is more pliable in the summer when the humidity is high so you might have something there.

The thing I would be concerned about is using too much moisture and running the inks. If you try it, let us know how it turns out.

 

[kandsrockets]

Bob I have been following this build and I have to say I am amazed at how sweet that has turned out. Great work.

 

[bnuts40]

Excellent paper build thread - Bob you do nice work.

I roll many of my own as well - usually using wooden dowels as a form.
Honed my rolling skill after many unsuccessful attempts & still learning.
Haven't tried any tubes or cones bigger than 1.25" though.

Thanks for sharing your work.

 

[BobH48]

Thanks, everyone, for the compliments.

I rolled the nozzles and the vector nozzles for the boosters and then decided that I didn't like the way they looked with the white inside.

I have seen photos with the nozzle interior red so I scanned in a nozzle and colored it red and repeated it so I had enough to make nozzle interiors for all the nozzles I had already made and glued them together. A benefit of this is that the nozzles are now double thickness so they should hold up better.

The vector nozzles were too small to do that so I reprinted the vector nozzles and printed the back side red so the new vector nozzles are red inside also.

I haven't glued the nozzles to the boosters yet but will try and get them on tomorrow and get a picture posted.

 

[BobH48]

I decided not to rebuild the escape tower. The wrinkles are not too noticible and it's probably going to get a few bends in it anyways from landing forces.

I glued the nozzles and fins to the boosters so this model is progressing nicely.

I still have the grids to make and need to add a shock cord

View attachment Soyuz Tower.JPG

 

[Rocketcrab]

Looks fantastic!

May I ask, what kind of adhesive(s) are you using on this project?

 

[BobH48]

Looks fantastic!

May I ask, what kind of adhesive(s) are you using on this project?

I have found for cardstock models that the best glue is plain old Elmers Glue All (white glue). Yellow glue shrinks and wrinkles the paper.

One exception is where I am making a body tube double thickness. White glue grabs too quickly.

For that, I make the outer tube joined with just a piece of bond paper. I then make the inner tube so it just fits inside. I then coat the outside of the inner tube using a permanent glue stick.

Roll up the inner tube with a small overlap (don't let the overlap edges touch) and slide it quickly into the outer tube with the outer seam and inner seam at opposite sides. Then beginning at the outer seam, smooth the inner tube to the outer tube. The glue stick gives you a slight working time where white glue grabs instantly.

This works quite well but it takes a little practice to get the technique.

Edit: Put in a couple of centering rings to hold the tube round while it sets up. Once it is dry, it will hold the shape.

 

[foose4string]

Very nice Bob! Can't wait to hear of a flight report. You sure know how to roll some paper, got it down to an art form I see.

 

[BobH48]

Very nice Bob! Can't wait to hear of a flight report...

Well, our next club launch is scheduled for January 12th.

Hopefully I will get a chance to launch it then if the weather is good.

This, of course, is dependent on getting a good day to clearcoat the model. Without a clear coat, any moisture will cause the ink to run.

Last year, our January launch was sunny and in the 60's, much warmer than our November launches.

 

[tonypv]

Another great looking model Bob!
Looking forward to seeing it in January.
Now lets hope for some good weather.

 

[BobH48]

I finished the grids for the capsule so the model is complete except for launch lugs, shock cord, and parachute.

I still need to balance it but there is plenty of room in the nose cone for weight.

 

[dtomko]

Beautiful job on those capsule grates!

I can't wait to see flight pics.

Drew