Carbon Nightmare

[nh4clo4]

Justin what's up with all the stuff for sale in the yard sale.
New women cutting into your budget?

Justin made a pretty big purchase a month or two ago. https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=20126

 

[THarrison]

I suppose he could pull a vacuum on the grains and that may migrate some water out of the SrNO3, but I wouldn't count on it.

Yea and you can flatten the grains into pancakes too while you are at it :bangpan:

 

[edwinshap1]

hehe, just did a lab about hydroscopics. It's chemically bonded to create a different compound. baking would be the only solution. it wouldn't be the same as evaporating. he'd most likely get the propellent above the autoignition temp. before he baked all the hydride out.

 

[JLRockets]

Just curious - is this effect specific to Red Rhinos, or to all red motors? I have some Cesaroni reds that are about a year old. I am storing the grains properly, in their original packaging and in an area that is reasonably immune to high humidty. Still, should I buy reds on a just-in-time basis, instead of letting them sit in the motor box?

 

[troj]

Just curious - is this effect specific to Red Rhinos, or to all red motors? I have some Cesaroni reds that are about a year old. I am storing the grains properly, in their original packaging and in an area that is reasonably immune to high humidty. Still, should I buy reds on a just-in-time basis, instead of letting them sit in the motor box?

Strontium nitrate is hygroscopic, while strontium carbonate is not.

So, it depends on the formula, or specifically, which strontium compound is used.

-Kevin

 

[Reinhard]

I wonder if these old RR motors can be reliably started the way the space shuttle SRBs are started. They use multiple igniter stages, where the last one is basically a small and relatively fast burning rocket motor, that fires down the core of the booster.
Compared to a thermite igniter, this should allow for much more energy to be delivered into the motor without overpressuring it, but it requires a modified forward closure.

Has any of the research guys used such an ignition system?

Reinhard

 

[blackjack2564]

Just curious - is this effect specific to Red Rhinos, or to all red motors? I have some Cesaroni reds that are about a year old. I am storing the grains properly, in their original packaging and in an area that is reasonably immune to high humidity. Still, should I buy reds on a just-in-time basis, instead of letting them sit in the motor box?

I have personally only had/seen problems with Gorilla & AMW. Have not used any Loki, don't know if they even make reds.

Used AT & KBA & CTI reds up to 6yrs old [my experience] with no more than usual ignition problems with older motors. Meaning sand the top grain to clean off any oxidation. The CTI 54mm and smaller have the BP pellet built in so that's been a non-issue....so far.

 

[patelldp]

Yea and you can flatten the grains into pancakes too while you are at it :bangpan:

More attractive outcome than lighting a toaster oven up.

 

[MaxQ]

I have personally only had/seen problems with Gorilla & AMW. Have not used any Loki, don't know if they even make reds.

Used AT & KBA & CTI reds up to 6yrs old [my experience] with no more than usual ignition problems with older motors. Meaning sand the top grain to clean off any oxidation. The CTI 54mm and smaller have the BP pellet built in so that's been a non-issue....so far.

Loki makes a red.

https://blastzone.com/loki/store.asp?groupid=831200410431019

 

[lmt56]

I have personally only had/seen problems with Gorilla & AMW. Have not used any Loki, don't know if they even make reds.

Used AT & KBA & CTI reds up to 6yrs old [my experience] with no more than usual ignition problems with older motors. Meaning sand the top grain to clean off any oxidation. The CTI 54mm and smaller have the BP pellet built in so that's been a non-issue....so far.

Hey Jim
I was just checking my stock and I have an AMWPro-X J395RR.
Date on the tube is Oct. 2008.
It does have a BP pellet.
I have no plans to fly it any time soon.
Should I rethink that?
Also any problems with using a Big Un igniter with the BP pellet?

 

[blackjack2564]

Hey Jim
I was just checking my stock and I have an AMWPro-X J395RR.
Date on the tube is Oct. 2008.
It does have a BP pellet.
I have no plans to fly it any time soon.
Should I rethink that?
Also any problems with using a Big Un igniter with the BP pellet?

Amx Pro-x is a different bird from the regular AMX. It's made by CTI, hence the BP pellet.
Use just the match by itself first.
Then if needed to try a 2nd time, use a big'un.

You should never use a large igniter when the bp pellet is still intact, it is possible that between the 2 lighting at once you could over pressurize the motor or worse the blast from the pellet can force the partially burnt igniter to wedge in the nozzle restricting the opening and REALLY over-pressurize it.

CTI has the advantage of making motors in Mil-spec environment,so they should work better,longer, than most as they age.

 

[mannyskid]

I got these in the mail this morning from some place called "Wildman Rocket Supply"? Don't know what that is, but these are pretty cool!!! Thanks Gus! We'll talk business soon.

Manny

 

[blackjack2564]

Don't know what that is, but these are pretty cool!!!
Manny

Them thar's da nu carbun fan dangled ......."water meter" ....... T wranches!

 

[troj]

In celebration of the release of the movie Thor, Tim is sending out his version of Thor's Hammer!

-Kevin

 

[mannyskid]

I got all the tubes cut yesterday. I laid out the seperate sections so that you may see the differant lengths. The first picture is of the booster and sustainer next to each other. The second picture is off the sustainer sections and booster section all laid out. The lengths for the booster as follows: 1- 60" long section (will barely fit 7600 case and all the laundry) 1-24" long section for fire relief from the L935 (large holes will be drilled in this section. Lengths for sustainer as follows: 1-29" long section 1-19"long section and 1-24" long section. The reason for 3 sections on the sustainer is because the motor retainage on this will be via an all thread rod bolted to a forword bulkhead inside the rocket, but I can't fit my hand down the 2" section to tighten the bolt so I just seperated it for easy access. Looking at it all stretched out in the yard, I realized, this is a real MONSTER. Fins should be getting back from Justin in the near future, then I can cut out the fin guides and move along in the build.

Manny

 

[patelldp]

The hockey bag and Rochester, NY pillow in the background intrigue me. Played hockey for 15 years of my life, and grew up near Rochester!

 

[mannyskid]

We've got a lot in common, everyone in my family plays hockey minus my mom, and my parents come from Rochester and Ballston Spa.

Manny

 

[patelldp]

We've got a lot in common, everyone in my family plays hockey minus my mom, and my parents come from Rochester and Ballston Spa.

Manny

That's funny, I can throw a rock from my parent's house and hit Ballston Spa.

It's a small world.

 

[ClayD]

I spent a good amount of time in wheatfield, I need to get up to that part of the country. It's amazing in the summer...

 

[jeffgeraci]

How do you possibly retrieve a rocket that flies 40,000 feet????? Must be expensive tracking equipment.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE AN ONBOARD VIDEO OF THIS FLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mannyskid]

How do you possibly retrieve a rocket that flies 40,000 feet????? Must be expensive tracking equipment.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE AN ONBOARD VIDEO OF THIS FLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Jeff, if you are reffering to the fact that BP doesn't burn very well above 20,000 feet, then here is your answer: I am going to be using a CD3 ejection charge manufactured by rouse tech, it is a CO2 cartidge which operates basically the same way that a paintball gun works. As for the tracking equiptment, since the booster will only go up to about 20K I feel just fine with a rocket hunter (I've had rockets go up to 20K and come back only about 200 yards away) For the sustainer though, I am going to need something a little more advanced. If you read the last issue of sport rocketry, you saw a member of my club, Paul Smith, with an article about GPS telemetry. Since I have absolutely no expirience with GPS, I am going to talk to him at the next WOOSH launch and see what we can do. On a little side note, he actually did the GPS telemetry for Sather's (SMR) 3/4 scale Jayhawk flight. Also, for all you reading this, the build is going to take off soon, Justin is currently working on the Carbon Fiber laminate for the fins, one those come back, the get on the tube then shortly after that it's time for the tip-to-tip. All that will come soon. Also, Jeff, I wouldn't trust any type of camera or anything protruding from the airframe as this is expected to go past Mach 2.3!

Manny

Manny

 

[ClayD]

Well Jeff, if you are reffering to the fact that BP doesn't burn very well above 20,000 feet, then here is your answer: I am going to be using a CD3 ejection charge manufactured by rouse tech, it is a CO2 cartidge which operates basically the same way that a paintball gun works. As for the tracking equiptment, since the booster will only go up to about 20K I feel just fine with a rocket hunter (I've had rockets go up to 20K and come back only about 200 yards away) For the sustainer though, I am going to need something a little more advanced. If you read the last issue of sport rocketry, you saw a member of my club, Paul Smith, with an article about GPS telemetry. Since I have absolutely no expirience with GPS, I am going to talk to him at the next WOOSH launch and see what we can do. On a little side note, he actually did the GPS telemetry for Sather's (SMR) 3/4 scale Jayhawk flight. Also, for all you reading this, the build is going to take off soon, Justin is currently working on the Carbon Fiber laminate for the fins, one those come back, the get on the tube then shortly after that it's time for the tip-to-tip. All that will come soon. Also, Jeff, I wouldn't trust any type of camera or anything protruding from the airframe as this is expected to go past Mach 2.3!

Manny

Manny

you forgot about the "luck" portion.....

In Kansas, where its flat a becon transmitter works fine for tracking 40k rockets. Its relatively flat.

Problem is, isnt carbon fiber too rf transparent for gps and radio trackers. you need an external patch antenna for gps.


Good luck... hope to see it.

 

[mannyskid]

ClayD, the "luck" is definitely a big portion of it, at Sweaty Balls last year, I planted my 3" wildman with an L935 about 2 miles away from the launch site. All that was sticking out was part of the motor case. After following the signal for a few minutes, I wound the chute and when I got to the end of the cord I said "$!#*" Gave up after about 4 hours, and just when I was about to leave for the long ride home, I saw it from the launch site with a pair of binoculers, all that I could see was a little grey speck. Argonia is truly a beutiful place, if you've never been, go as soon as possible. But as far as the RF transparency, the Nose is going to be graphite which is RF transparent, and the rocket hunter will be taped to the shock cord like all my other rockets. Just hope for no wind.

Manny

 

[Pantherjon]

Just hope for no wind.

Kevin will either state otherwise or agree completely:

No chance in THAT happening!:roll:

 

[mannyskid]

I bet you all thought that this thread was dead, well, it's very much alive! Yesterday at bong I picked up my fins from Justin, and might I say, he did an excelent job! They look great, he laminated them with two layers of carbon on each side and one layer of 6oz. glass on each side to seal it up. He gave them an absolutely PERFECT bevel. The first picture is of the booster fins and the second is of the sustainer fins set in Gus's fin guides. I will be making 75 mm fin guides out of steel on Tuesday. Why steel? Why not G-10? Because I don't have enough G-10. Why not aluminium or tin? Because I don't really want the guides to bend or flex. Once I have the fin guides, I tack them on with thin CA. Next weekend, Gus is going to come up here to help me with the coltronics high temp. fillets. Then the following weekend I go down there and we do the carbon/glass layups. After that there is not much other work to do other than the Av-bays and transition/nose cone (getting a GPS setup).

Manny

 

[mannyskid]

I tried to cut out the 75mm fin guides on my plasma torch and as all of you can probably tell, I am an amature. I can make them work.

Manny

 

[Highpowerrocketyahoo]

I use a plasma at work sometimes. Great tool but it an be tricky. Once you master it you'll lay a smooth edge!

 

[maxvelocity]

Wow! That's a crazy plasma cut.... Wait that's an understatement

 

[mannyskid]

So, Gus came up last night and we basically pulled an all nighter working on the fillets, I put the last set of fillets on this morning, and might I say, they look good! This weekend, me and a buddy are going down there and we will work on the tip-to-tip. I will post pics later on when they are all cured.

Manny

 

[mannyskid]

So, I left my camera at the shop and hadn't gotton around to posting pics. But here they are. The first two pics show the sustainer fillets. These fillets were done with proline high-temp epoxy (coltronics). The same glue that comes with the mongoose kits. The 2nd and 3rd photos show the fillets on the booster, these were also done with Proline high-temp epoxy (coltronics). The last pic shows the two monsters together. This weekend, it's my turn to make the 5 hour drive to meet Gus and do the carbon tip-to-tip. These fins are going nowhere!

Manny