Canon IS Lenses and rockets

[Fred]

I agree. Practice is both fun and inexpensive with digital. Have fun and please remember folks if you want to know if it's a good photo and you're smiling then theres your answer
cheers
fred

 

[Fred]

I shoot our club rocket launches with a Nikon D70 and am generally very pleased with the results . On the other hand, I really like the increased frames per second that the Canons offer.

Have you ever seen some of the shots Steve Jurvetson gets with his 5D? He captures some amazing CATOs.

Chris

Great shots
Cheers
fred

 

[eastvolt]

The skills of the photographer are significantly more important than the equipment. A great photographer can do some great things with a disposable camera, but an amateur, with high-end gear is still an amateur.

Just because someone is an "amateur" doesn't make that person a poor photographer. I've seen many an amateur take much better photos than many professionals.

 

[CJAnderson]

Thanks Fred!

 

[CJAnderson]

Something very important to remember, when discussing photography...

The skills of the photographer are significantly more important than the equipment.

...

It's more important that you learn to use what you have than drooling over and upgrading to the latest and greatest goodies.

-Kevin

Kevin - Generally speaking you are, of course, right on target.

There can be, however, many benefits to upgrading equipment once a photographer develops certain basic skills. For instance, an SLR with almost no shutter delay is going to make it much easier for a photographer to capture a rocket motor igniting and leaving the pad. The same photographer using most point and shoot cameras is going to have to time the shutter release perfectly to account for the delay between the time she presses the button and the time the shutter actually opens. I'm sure there are hundreds of BARs out there with thousands of beautiful pictures of smoke trails.

I agree with Fred wholeheartedly that film is cheap (and digital is even cheaper) compared with the memories you capture. Shoot tons of pictures and learn from your mistakes.

Happy shooting - rockets and photos!

Chris

 

[Maagic]

For instance, an SLR with almost no shutter delay is going to make it much easier for a photographer to capture a rocket motor igniting and leaving the pad. The same photographer using most point and shoot cameras is going to have to time the shutter release perfectly to account for the delay between the time she presses the button and the time the shutter actually opens.

Not really. Just need to practice panning more

(in other words, "following" the rocket as it takes off, while holding the shutter button down taking shots the whole time)

 

[CJAnderson]

Maagic, I have to respectfully disagree with you on that. Panning is certainly a fantastic way to keep a moving subject sharp in the image, and I use it all the time for action photography (see some of my Indy 500 photos for examples), but you'll still have a better chance capturing the image you want if there is very little delay between the time you press the shutter button and the time shutter actually fires.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of excellent point and shoot cameras out there that have pretty good shutter response times. However, I've shot rocket launches with both my D70 and my "old" point and shoot Coolpix and I consistently get better shots with the SLR.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[WiK]

...is going to make it much easier for a photographer to...

That's what the more expensive, 'better' equipment does. It (DSLR's over point & shoot cameras) makes it easier for the photographer to take a photo at that exact moment. A camera that shoots 8.5fps just makes it easier to capture a sequence of events. Big expensive lenses with IS make it easier to get a sharp image.

Put all that in the hands of someone who's a lousy photographer, and they may well come out with some well timed, pin-sharp photos that look terrible.
Put all that in the hands of someone who consistently gets good photos with cheaper, 'worse' equipment and he'll probably get consistently good photos with it too, just finding that all that expensive gear makes it a bit less hassle.

But having never played with any of the expensive gear, I wouldn't know.

However, I do think it depends what stuff you're used to. I used to shoot rockets with an old Coolpix point and shoot that had a long shutter delay, but after a while you get used to it, and you're able to get launch shots with the rocket still in the frame time after time.


And surely what any photo boils down to, regardless of camera, image format, lens, camera support, etc is composition? An EOS 1d with the most expensive lens you can find stuck on the front of it isn't going to make you any better at that...

Phil

 

[eugenefl]

A camera is a tool like anything else. I have met some artists that could paint a canvas with a $.50 drugstore toothbrush better than I could if I had an airbrush or the finest collection paint brushes.

I personally enjoy any type of camera, and although I would love to have the latest <a href="https://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022208canoneos1dmarkiii.asp">Canon</a> or <a href="https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Nikon/nikon_d2xs.asp">Nikon</a> pro body, my <a href="https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond200/">prosumer</a> camera suits me just fine. Actually, the camera in my collection I enjoy most is a $19 plastic medium format camera called a "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holga">Holga</a>." No fuss, no muss. Granted, if I went to a rocket launch, I'd be hard pressed to get 1 shot in a flight hence the need for a better "tool" for the job.

Overall, I think everyone contributing to this thread has a good understanding of the function and purpose of a camera regardless of who uses it.

Speaking of, perhaps we should get a Flickr group started or some other place for rocketeers to share photos. I know in the past forum members have asked if we can build a gallery on our site (TRF), but I've seen other groups successfully utilize a site like Flickr to share photos within their own communities. Perhaps we can link to the gallery from TRF and make it the "unofficial" TRF Flickr group gallery. I dunno. Thoughts? (I'd go start it now, but I'm in the office behind a proxy that blocks photo sharing sites.)

 

[CJAnderson]

A camera is a tool like anything else. I have met some artists that could paint a canvas with a $.50 drugstore toothbrush better than I could if I had an airbrush or the finest collection paint brushes.

I personally enjoy any type of camera, and although I would love to have the latest <a href="https://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022208canoneos1dmarkiii.asp">Canon</a> or <a href="https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Nikon/nikon_d2xs.asp">Nikon</a> pro body, my <a href="https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond200/">prosumer</a> camera suits me just fine. Actually, the camera in my collection I enjoy most is a $19 plastic medium format camera called a "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holga">Holga</a>." No fuss, no muss. Granted, if I went to a rocket launch, I'd be hard pressed to get 1 shot in a flight hence the need for a better "tool" for the job.

Overall, I think everyone contributing to this thread has a good understanding of the function and purpose of a camera regardless of who uses it.

Speaking of, perhaps we should get a Flickr group started or some other place for rocketeers to share photos. I know in the past forum members have asked if we can build a gallery on our site (TRF), but I've seen other groups successfully utilize a site like Flickr to share photos within their own communities. Perhaps we can link to the gallery from TRF and make it the "unofficial" TRF Flickr group gallery. I dunno. Thoughts? (I'd go start it now, but I'm in the office behind a proxy that blocks photo sharing sites.)

Amen! I really want to get a Holga to play around with as well.

There are a couple rocketry-related groups already in existence on flickr. I post to both the Rocket pool and the Model Rocket pool. There are some amazing images in both pools. If there's enough interest, I'd be happy to look into creating a TRF Model Rocketry Pool and would serve as an admin. We could share tips and techniques along with information about upcoming launches.

Chris

 

[Len B]

I use a Canon Digital Rebel XTi and also an Elan 7N (film camera). I have and use the 300 mm F4 IS lens for rocket photos and I am very pleased with it. My assumption was that I could pan vertically to chase rockets with the IS in mode 2. I don't know whether I am getting any benefit or not. At the last launch I had another problem that messed with my shooting more than that. I got the focus spots on the XTi set to the middle spot and couldn't remember how to get it to "watch" all the focus points. Arrrrggghh! I have a few fuzzy shots from when I was panning.

Anyway, I cannot answer for sure about panning and mode 2 but I will test it out and see what results I get. (Now that all focus spots are watching)

Here are a couple photos of a beautiful Black Brant just leaving the pad.

BTW, How do you guys attach decent photos at < 100KB here?

Len B

 

[troj]

BTW, How do you guys attach decent photos at < 100KB here?

Upload them somewhere, then put a link to them in your message.

-Kevin

 

[mperdue]

I use Nikon equipment so I don't have IS lenses, I have VR lenses. Both systems do the same thing - they reduce the the blur that results from shaking the camera when hand-holding it. Image stabilization will do absolutely nothing to reduce the motion blur caused by a moving object. Additionally, at the shutter speeds required to stop the motion of a rocket image stabilization won't help at all and in some cases can cause problems.

IS lenses and their VR counterparts are intended to give you blur-free images at slow shutter speeds. As a rule of thumb you can hand hold a camera down to the reciprocal of the focal length so if you're on the range using a 200mm lens you can probably get a steady shot down to 1/200th of a second. IS will allow you to go down to perhaps 1/50th or 1/30th of a second. At 1/200th the IS is not really doing anything and above 1/200th it becomes counterproductive and you should turn it off.

Mario

 

[Len B]

That totally makes sense.
The IS really works well at low shutter speeds for sure. On lower end cameras like the XTi, a fairly fast lens (F5.6 or better) is required to be sure that the IS will work. Not sure if there is a similar situation with the Nikon VR lenses.

From now on I will turn the IS off when trying to shoot rockets.

Thanks,

Len B

I use Nikon equipment so I don't have IS lenses, I have VR lenses. Both systems do the same thing - they reduce the the blur that results from shaking the camera when hand-holding it. Image stabilization will do absolutely nothing to reduce the motion blur caused by a moving object. Additionally, at the shutter speeds required to stop the motion of a rocket image stabilization won't help at all and in some cases can cause problems.

IS lenses and their VR counterparts are intended to give you blur-free images at slow shutter speeds. As a rule of thumb you can hand hold a camera down to the reciprocal of the focal length so if you're on the range using a 200mm lens you can probably get a steady shot down to 1/200th of a second. IS will allow you to go down to perhaps 1/50th or 1/30th of a second. At 1/200th the IS is not really doing anything and above 1/200th it becomes counterproductive and you should turn it off.

Mario

 

[Necromancer]

Also, just FYI, if you shoot on a tripod, always turn OFF the IS function.

 

[Daedalus]

Also, just FYI, if you shoot on a tripod, always turn OFF the IS function.

That depends on the lens - some Conon IS leses work better on a tripod with IS turned on - I think the 300mm f2.8 is one of those but don't quotem - just check the user manual.

IS on a tripod for some IS lenses does make the picture significantly worse and should be turned off. The problem with Canon is that not all lenses work the same. That said I love my 70-200mm f2.8 and wouldn't swap it for a n eqivalent(ish) lens.

 

[kelltym88]

I just bought a Canon Cybershot. It is not anything high end as is being discussed here, but it does have many features. For example I can change the ISO, the IS(that's what keeps it steady, right?). Anyway, what is a good ISO for shooting rockets on sunny days? on cloudy days? It also has video features.it is 10.1 mp so I should get much better shots than in the past. It also has multiple shot setting either continuous, .3 or .7 seconds apart. Would the ISO need to be changed for that, or does it matter? Thanx, sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.

 

[jadebox]

I just bought a Canon Cybershot. It is not anything high end as is being discussed here, but it does have many features. For example I can change the ISO, the IS(that's what keeps it steady, right?). Anyway, what is a good ISO for shooting rockets on sunny days? on cloudy days? It also has video features.it is 10.1 mp so I should get much better shots than in the past. It also has multiple shot setting either continuous, .3 or .7 seconds apart. Would the ISO need to be changed for that, or does it matter? Thanx, sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.

Sony makes a "CyberShot" camera and Canon makes a "PowerShot" camera. I'm not sure which you have.

I used to use a Canon Powershot which can take continuous shots at more than 2 fps forever (well, until the memory card filled). You need to set the drive mode to "continuous" for rockets and anticipate the lift-off by starting to take pictures. Leave the rest on "Auto" and, on a sunny day, a faster shutter speed (and lower ISO) will be used which is what you want.

I've never used the Sony CyberShot, but looking at the reviews, the continous mode doesn't work as well - only taking a few frames before pausing to save the images to the memory card.

With any "Point & Shoot" camera, however, you won't get the kind of close-up, lift-off shots people using SLR cameras capture. Instead, you can try "zooming out" to get a wider angle view. Try to capture the sky, the rocket and it's exhaust trail, and people watching the launch. The PowerShot I had took really pretty pictures like that.

-- Roger

 

[Necromancer]

That depends on the lens - some Conon IS leses work better on a tripod with IS turned on - I think the 300mm f2.8 is one of those but don't quotem - just check the user manual.

IS on a tripod for some IS lenses does make the picture significantly worse and should be turned off. The problem with Canon is that not all lenses work the same. That said I love my 70-200mm f2.8 and wouldn't swap it for a n eqivalent(ish) lens.

Thats because the 300mm f/2.8L has an internal sensor which detects when its placed on a tripod. But for the majority of lenses that consumers will use (not everyone can afford a 300 f/2.8L), IS should be turned off since it doesn't have this autosense technology.

 

[troj]

I just bought a Canon Cybershot. It is not anything high end as is being discussed here, but it does have many features. For example I can change the ISO, the IS(that's what keeps it steady, right?). Anyway, what is a good ISO for shooting rockets on sunny days? on cloudy days? It also has video features.it is 10.1 mp so I should get much better shots than in the past. It also has multiple shot setting either continuous, .3 or .7 seconds apart. Would the ISO need to be changed for that, or does it matter? Thanx, sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.

ISO = "film" speed
IS = Image Stabilization (Nikon calls it Vibration Reduction)

In digital cameras, a higher ISO setting will result in more noise in the image. On many DSLRs, you have to get above 800 before you begin to notice it, in most cases, and with current DSLRs, it's often 1600+.

Without knowing the model of your camera, it's hard to tell where noticable noise will begin to appear.

You'll have to experiment, to determine what the best ISO is. At launches, especially on a sunny day, I often shoot at 100 or 200. It's extremely rare for me to bump it above 400, unless I'm indoors, trying to shoot a moving subject, such as at my kids' soccer games.

-Kevin

 

[Fred]

ISO = "film" speed
IS = Image Stabilization (Nikon calls it Vibration Reduction)

In digital cameras, a higher ISO setting will result in more noise in the image. On many DSLRs, you have to get above 800 before you begin to notice it, in most cases, and with current DSLRs, it's often 1600+.

Without knowing the model of your camera, it's hard to tell where noticable noise will begin to appear.

You'll have to experiment, to determine what the best ISO is. At launches, especially on a sunny day, I often shoot at 100 or 200. It's extremely rare for me to bump it above 400, unless I'm indoors, trying to shoot a moving subject, such as at my kids' soccer games.

-Kevin

Kevin you make excellant points but a high ISO for high shutter speeds allow a higher F-stop so your pictures can be sharper IMO
Cheers
Fred

 

[Necromancer]

Kevin you make excellant points but a high ISO for high shutter speeds allow a higher F-stop so your pictures can be sharper IMO
Cheers
Fred

Yep, a good point.

I usually aim for about 1/1000 to 1/2000 shutter speed, and go for about 400-800 ISO and go for the smallest aperature possible to get the widest depth of field to ensure a good sharp photo.

If there is noise, i simply use NoiseNinja or similar program to reduce noise. Works extremely well.

 

[kelltym88]

Sony makes a "CyberShot" camera and Canon makes a "PowerShot" camera. I'm not sure which you have.



-- Roger

Dee de dee Yes, I have a Sony Cybershot. Sorry. I'll try low ISO. Thanx.