Canon IS Lenses and rockets

[llickteig1]

Has anyone used any of the Canon IS (image stabilized) lenses for rocket photos? I'm curious how the IS feature (mis-)behaves when compensating for the rocket motion and what success/failures you've had.

I'm looking at acquiting the Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS USM lens which I can use for other photography needs. If the IS goes bonkers shooting rockets I might need to go with the non-IS version.

Anyone out the have first hand experience and/or example photos?

Thanks, --Lance.

 

[eastvolt]

The IS feature has nothing to do with the subject or its motion. It is used to help steady the camera itself (i.e. handheld shooting) and usually buys you about 1 f-stop vs. shooting without the IS feature. It basically reduces camera shake due to handheld motion.

Best bet for shooting rocket is tripod mount. And on a tripod, you need to turn IS off anyways, since that will adversely affect the shot if you leave it on during a tripod shot.

Best tip is shoot on a tripod, stop down the aperture a bit to increase depth of field (to maximimze region where rocket is in focus), and shoot as fast an exposure as possible. I usually shoot with a Canon 200mm f/2.8L lens stopped down to about f4.0 and in daylight (and ISO 200), usually get about 1/2000 second exposures which captures images pretty good, although faster would be better, which means shooting more wide open or increasing ISO, but then you decrease DOF as well as increase noise.

Also, always use manual focus for a launch unless you are tracking the rocket during flight.

 

[jadebox]

The IS feature has nothing to do with the subject or its motion. It is used to help steady the camera itself (i.e. handheld shooting) and usually buys you about 1 f-stop vs. shooting without the IS feature. It basically reduces camera shake due to handheld motion.

There are two modes on Canon's IS lenses - the first is for still objects, but the second is for moving objects. But the lens assumes the objects are moving horizontally, so the IS is not useful for rockets. Anyway, I've tried both modes as well as IS off and haven't noticed any real difference taking photos of launches, so I turn IS off.

Best bet for shooting rocket is tripod mount. And on a tripod, you need to turn IS off anyways, since that will adversely affect the shot if you leave it on during a tripod shot.

Best tip is shoot on a tripod, stop down the aperture a bit to increase depth of field (to maximimze region where rocket is in focus), and shoot as fast an exposure as possible. I usually shoot with a Canon 200mm f/2.8L lens stopped down to about f4.0 and in daylight (and ISO 200), usually get about 1/2000 second exposures which captures images pretty good, although faster would be better, which means shooting more wide open or increasing ISO, but then you decrease DOF as well as increase noise.

You'll usually find yourself photographing rockets in bright sunshine, so using the automatic settings on the camera will cause it to close the aperature and select a high shutter speed.

Sometimes I like having a shorter depth of field - forcing the background out-of-focus, so I'll use a grey filter. But I don't do that so often any more since I discovered that I can fake the effect in Photoshop.

Also, always use manual focus for a launch unless you are tracking the rocket during flight.

I'll use auto-focus to initially focus the camera on the rocket on the launch pad. Then I'll switch to manual focus for the launch and flight. The auto-focus will sometimes track a rocket throughout its flight, but I'm much better at it than the camera. My lens doesn't have "full-time manual" (FTM) focusing - so autofocus must be off for me to manually focus. (The EF 70-200mm f/4 L does have FTM.)

-- Roger

 

[cjl]

Often, my dad will leave the IS on if he is taking pics of rockets on the pad (during prep or suc), and turn it off for launch shots. It can be turned off, so don't worry about it as a potential way of ruining the shots - the lens will be just as functional as a non IS lens in every way, plus the added convenience of the IS.

As for that lens, it's a very nice one, though depending on what you want to be shooting, it might be worth it to go to the F2.8 version (it is a pretty significant price bump though, so it depends on the application). My dad has the 70-200 F2.8 IS L, and loves it - it's one of his favorite lenses for rockets (with the IS turned off). He used to have the 70-200 F4 L non-IS though (before he sold it to get his current lens), and that one also did a wonderful job. They're great lenses, no doubt.

 

[jadebox]

Oh ... a couple of other things ... to save battery power, turn IS off when you don't need. And some IS lenses detect when they are on a tripod and turn IS off automatically.

I have the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens. It's not quite as fast as the EF 70-200mm f/4 L through the range of focal lengths, doesn't have full-time manual override of the autofocus, and is not quite the same high quality. But it's less expensive and offers a longer telephoto. I'm very happy with it.

-- Roger

 

[eastvolt]

There are two modes on Canon's IS lenses - the first is for still objects, but the second is for moving objects. But the lens assumes the objects are moving horizontally, so the IS is not useful for rockets. Anyway, I've tried both modes as well as IS off and haven't noticed any real difference taking photos of launches, so I turn IS off.

No, thats not quite right. The IS does not account for motion within the subject etc... It only corrects motion detected on the camera (i.e. photographer) through the use of electromechanical gyroscopes.

The first mode compensates for both horizontal and vertical shaking within the camera and corrects that. This is the standard mode. The second mode only compensates in the vertical axis as it is meant for photographers doing horizontal panning.

 

[adrian]

I don't have a SLR but I do have the Canon S3 IS, which has a built-in 12x optical zoom as well as IS. I generally leave IS on.

A tripod is no use to me as I need to be able to move around - setting up my rocket on a pad, photographing it, photographing someone else's rocket on the next pad, photographing something launching as soon as I get back from the pad, etc. If there's enough light to make the auto-exposure go to a fast shutter speed, fine, otherwise I'll force it to at least 1/100, preferably a good deal faster, and use Photoshop to brighten up the photo if necessary.

Auto-focus sometimes messes up when I'm trying to photograph a rocket on the pad and it locks onto the grass in the background. So I point at the base of the pad, press the button half-way to make sure it's focussed on something at the right distance, then shift the aim up to a little above the rocket. The camera reacts very quickly to the final button press so even with model rockets, I can watch for first sign of smoke and usually get a decent lift-off shot. Or at least an ignition shot, if the camera reacts more quickly than the rocket motor.

As for an example, I recently photographed my model of a Skylark sounding rocket. Autofocus initially on the pad, automatic settings chose 1/1250 at F4, then I tracked the rocket and got this. That red thing just below the rocket is its first stage which has just separated.

 

[adrian]

The first mode compensates for both horizontal and vertical shaking within the camera and corrects that. This is the standard mode. The second mode only compensates in the vertical axis as it is meant for photographers doing horizontal panning.

But since you're photographing a vertical object going (nearly) straight up, you've turned the camera round so that horizontal from the camera's point of view is vertical to the rest of the world's point of view. (Mind you, I'm not sure if I can fool my camera that way. It knows when it's been rotated and, during playback, shows the picture the right way round...)

 

[jadebox]

No, thats not quite right. The IS does not account for motion within the subject etc... It only corrects motion detected on the camera (i.e. photographer) through the use of electromechanical gyroscopes.

The first mode compensates for both horizontal and vertical shaking within the camera and corrects that. This is the standard mode. The second mode only compensates in the vertical axis as it is meant for photographers doing horizontal panning.

I wasn't trying to imply that what you said wasn't correct. And your reply doesn't contradict what I said. Mode 1 is intended for still objects and Mode 2 is for moving objects. I guess someone might pan the camera for a non-moving subject, but that would be an unusual case when using a still camera.

-- Roger

 

[jadebox]

But since you're photographing a vertical object going (nearly) straight up, you've turned the camera round so that horizontal from the camera's point of view is vertical to the rest of the world's point of view. (Mind you, I'm not sure if I can fool my camera that way. It knows when it's been rotated and, during playback, shows the picture the right way round...)

You know, I'm not sure how (or if) "Mode 2" IS works when the camera is in portrait mode. But, in any case, I doubt it would make much difference with the fast shutter speed you want to use for rockets.

-- Roger

 

[eastvolt]

I wasn't trying to imply that what you said wasn't correct. And your reply doesn't contradict what I said. Mode 1 is intended for still objects and Mode 2 is for moving objects. I guess someone might pan the camera for a non-moving subject, but that would be an unusual case when using a still camera.

-- Roger

Okay, I agree. The original poster, i am guessing, was thinking the IS could sense subject motion and compensate for it. I was merely try to state that the IS only compensates for motion present on the camera. (i.e. shaky photographer's hands etc...)

 

[Fred]

Dont own an IS lenses but it sounds pretty cool for shooting in low light. Shutter speed is the key with rockets. I shoot mine at about 1 8000 of a second. Seems to get okay results
Cheers
fred

 

[Maagic]

That would be some trick especially since the Rebel only goes up to 1/4000.

 

[cjl]

Yep- but other cameras go higher (like the 20D and the 1D Mark II N - they both go to 1/8000).

I think Fred has a 20D, IIRC.

 

[edwardw]

I've used on IS lense - and loved it - if I shot through a zoom all the time. I photograph for a living and generally shoot with the fast primes (14,24,28,35, etc) But when I've used the 70-200 f/4 I liked it a lot. Just don't have the use for it really. But - you can trick your camera. If you shoot upside down, it won't flip right ways.

Edward

 

[Fred]

That would be some trick especially since the Rebel only goes up to 1/4000.

I have never owned a rebel but i think it's a great little camera. AT present I am using a Canon 30D but have used a 20D a lot as well. Both will do 1 8000 of a second.
https://www.canon.ca/english/index-...1020&sgid=23&gid=2&ovr=1&epage=specifications
There is no trick and no electronics will subsitute for lots of practice as well
Cheers
fred

 

[cjl]

I have never owned a rebel but i think it's a great little camera. AT present I am using a Canon 30D but have used a 20D a lot as well. Both will do 1 8000 of a second.
https://www.canon.ca/english/index-...1020&sgid=23&gid=2&ovr=1&epage=specifications
There is no trick and no electronics will subsitute for lots of practice as well
Cheers
fred

Ahh - you use a 30D now...

How do you like it? I've never actually seen one - my dad uses a 1D Mk IIN, and his friend uses a 5D, but the 30D looks like a wonderful camera too.

 

[Fred]

Ahh - you use a 30D now...

How do you like it? I've never actually seen one - my dad uses a 1D Mk II, and his friend uses a 5D, but the 30D looks like a wonderful camera too.

not much different from the 20D but a few extra black and white shooting options and a bigger preview screen. It also features a very durable shutter and some colour shooting modes that show promise. The other cameras you mentionned are superb and i hope to buy a five later this year. I really like the 30 as it also has an excellant high speed rate for rocket shots
Cheers
fred

 

[cjl]

Yeah - the high speed is great for rocketry shots (and is the reason my dad didn't get a 5D). The larger screen is a great thing, and it sounds like the 30D was a good upgrade from the 20D. You certainly get great shots with it

 

[Fred]

Yeah - the high speed is great for rocketry shots (and is the reason my dad didn't get a 5D). The larger screen is a great thing, and it sounds like the 30D was a good upgrade from the 20D. You certainly get great shots with it

Thanks CJ I nver know the five had a slower frame rate and thats interesting.I have reveiwed this thread again and I dont think IS will help with this shooting situation. Look for an L designation though for a lenses. This indicates a pro lense and the glass is generally very good and the pictures just snap. My 70 to 200 is not IS but man it just loves rockets. It seems to me IS would be good for shooting in a low light situation like animals at dusk when it would offset a slow shutter speed nicely.
Cheers
fred

 

[cjl]

Yeah - just 3fps. More than what most people need, but a hair slow for some rocket shots. The 5D's resolution is incredible though - 12+ megapixel (is there a drooling smiley?). As for the IS - it really shines in low light situations, that's true. My dad got the 70-200 F2.8L IS because he sometimes shoots low light stuff, when the F2.8 plus the IS allows much better images without bumping the ISO way too high. For rockets, the F4 non-IS L version would be perfectly adequate (and half the size and weight, not to mention the cost).

As far as higher speed goes, you could probably get a 1D MkIIN for not too much more than the 5D right now, mainly because the replacement is now out...

Not quite the resolution, but 8.5fps is ridiculous.

 

[Fred]

Yeah - just 3fps. More than what most people need, but a hair slow for some rocket shots. The 5D's resolution is incredible though - 12+ megapixel (is there a drooling smiley?). As for the IS - it really shines in low light situations, that's true. My dad got the 70-200 F2.8L IS because he sometimes shoots low light stuff, when the F2.8 plus the IS allows much better images without bumping the ISO way too high. For rockets, the F4 non-IS L version would be perfectly adequate (and half the size and weight, not to mention the cost).

As far as higher speed goes, you could probably get a 1D MkIIN for not too much more than the 5D right now, mainly because the replacement is now out...

Not quite the resolution, but 8.5fps is ridiculous.

This all makes great sence I want the five though because rockets are what I shoot for fun. For commercial and portraiture the five would be unreal
Cheers
fred

 

[cjl]

Absolutely - the combination of the relatively large sensor and the 12 megapixel resolution make it phenomenal for most photography. I'm sure you'd get great shots with it (then again, I'm sure you could get great shots with any camera, more capable equipment just helps )

 

[Thrasher]

I don't know anything about photography. I use the Canon PowerShot S2 IS. It's a simple camera. I get good shots too.

 

[eugenefl]

This is off topic in regards to the thread subject, but while the attention on photography is here, would any of you happen to be members at SportsShooter.com? I'm in need of a sponsor and can't seem to connect with someone that can sponsor me.

There appears to be a sense of elitism amongst certain photographers, which I don't quite understand. I am all about sharing knowledge and gaining some too. Something as simple as obtaining a sponsorship to this SportsShooter website seems to be something of an impossibility. I guess I have not yet learned the secret handshake or something. Anyways, I have shot all three major US pro sports (NFL/NBA/NHL), been published, had work featured in a gallery, done weddings, yadda yadda....anyone?

I'm in the Nikon camp and currently shoot with a D200 & Sigma APO 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG/HSM. It was $600 less than Nikon's version which has VR (Vibration Reduction, equivalent to Canon's IS technology). I have read much about the benefits of Canon gear (i.e. lower noise & cleaner files at high ISO's) and will definitely someday make the switch in an effort to join the status quo of pro photographers. Nikon gear has done the job for me thus far which is why I have not yet made the justification to switch.

In response to the original question, if you have the additional funds to invest in the IS version of the lens, definitely go that route. I started out as a photography hobby enthusiast thus the choice to purchase the less expensive lens I cited above. I'm thrilled with the sharpness of the images created with their lens.

 

[llickteig1]

Thanks for all the info, guys. It is very useful.

I've considered tne EF 70-200 f/2.8 L IS lens, but for most of my needs, the extra weight is another drawback besides the extra $$$. The nice thing is if I find I need the extra aperture, the resale on Canon L lenses is great and I can upgrade.

I was thinking about situations where you're panning the subject upward and maybe IS doesn't work when panning upward in portrait mode. Better understanding that the IS gyros are detecting camera movement and not subject movement makes perfect sense. Kinda stupid of me to think otherwise.

My other uses will involve some indoor concert and event shooting and the IS will be a huge benefit there to get the extra 3 or so stops.

BTW, this is going on a 30D. I might rent one for AIRFest just to try it out for a while. I'm pretty sure, though, that its the lens I need.

One other side note, I've been shooting for a couple years with an Olympus E-100RS and at 15fps I literally never miss a launch. For example, I've shot a 38mm Transonic on an H999 and gotten 3 frames with the rocket, although it was going so fast it is blurry in the last frame. Problem is the resolution is very low by today's standards and the other manual controls are not quite there for my other photography needs. The built-in lens is equivalent to 38-380mm, I believe, so it is pretty versitile around the rocket range. I'll probably still bring it out for shots the I can't afford to miss (like cert flights, or Warp9's) until I get used to the 30D.

Thanks again, --Lance.

 

[jadebox]

My other uses will involve some indoor concert and event shooting and the IS will be a huge benefit there to get the extra 3 or so stops.

Yeah, that's the kind of thing IS is made for. A good flash is important, too, of course.

BTW, this is going on a 30D. I might rent one for AIRFest just to try it out for a while. I'm pretty sure, though, that its the lens I need.

One other side note, I've been shooting for a couple years with an Olympus E-100RS and at 15fps I literally never miss a launch.

If you want more frames-per-second and don't mind lower resolution, you could go with a high-def video camera.

I "smilied" that, but I've actually considered it. But a HD camcorder with a good lens is really expensive. Perhaps, when I win the lottery .....

-- Roger

 

[Fred]

This is off topic in regards to the thread subject, but while the attention on photography is here, would any of you happen to be members at SportsShooter.com? I'm in need of a sponsor and can't seem to connect with someone that can sponsor me.

There appears to be a sense of elitism amongst certain photographers, which I don't quite understand. I am all about sharing knowledge and gaining some too. Something as simple as obtaining a sponsorship to this SportsShooter website seems to be something of an impossibility. I guess I have not yet learned the secret handshake or something. Anyways, I have shot all three major US pro sports (NFL/NBA/NHL), been published, had work featured in a gallery, done weddings, yadda yadda....anyone?

I'm in the Nikon camp and currently shoot with a D200 & Sigma APO 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG/HSM. It was $600 less than Nikon's version which has VR (Vibration Reduction, equivalent to Canon's IS technology). I have read much about the benefits of Canon gear (i.e. lower noise & cleaner files at high ISO's) and will definitely someday make the switch in an effort to join the status quo of pro photographers. Nikon gear has done the job for me thus far which is why I have not yet made the justification to switch.

In response to the original question, if you have the additional funds to invest in the IS version of the lens, definitely go that route. I started out as a photography hobby enthusiast thus the choice to purchase the less expensive lens I cited above. I'm thrilled with the sharpness of the images created with their lens.

I hear you about the elitism. I shoot pro in what could be kindly described as a backwater and the tude of most of the shooters out here is nauseating.
I would not switch from Nikon if it works for you. It makes no cents or dollars to change just to hit a staus quo. I am a canon user but Nikon is just plain cool equipment.
Cheers
fred

 

[CJAnderson]

I shoot our club rocket launches with a Nikon D70 and am generally very pleased with the results . On the other hand, I really like the increased frames per second that the Canons offer.

Have you ever seen some of the shots Steve Jurvetson gets with his 5D? He captures some amazing CATOs.

Chris

 

[troj]

Something very important to remember, when discussing photography...

The skills of the photographer are significantly more important than the equipment. A great photographer can do some great things with a disposable camera, but an amateur, with high-end gear is still an amateur.

It's more important that you learn to use what you have than drooling over and upgrading to the latest and greatest goodies.

-Kevin