lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
Which one? I could swear it was through the CG.
Candy cane rocket
- Thread starter Nv7
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It was a report for canting clusters to fly if one motor didn't light. Everyone for years said to cant through the CG, but it turns out halfway between is optimal. Not much of a difference in reality. This would have been around 2012ish. For one motor would there be a difference? Rocket science is hard!
You'd put that motor in the top end and you know it!
Canted tractor motor clusters rock!
Aye, I like me motors on top in widely spaced pods!
A wee bit funny looking but it solves so many problems.
But let's see the candy cane fly with a motor on the bottom.
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And here I thought I was the King (or Court Jester) of the Asymmetry Mole Hill (at least for fin placement!)
If you aren’t going to go with Tractor Motors (one each side of the straight part just before it starts to curve), I think Lake’s got the most viable option.
I think larger fins will help. I’d go with 4, the ventral and dorsal can line up with the plane of the Cane with its curvature, which will also line up with Lake’s motor mount. The right and left should line up with the axis of Lake’s motor mount through the CG, NOT with the straight segment of the Cane.
About the only thing you CAN’T do is name this “Peyronie One.”
I’d also go with one medium to long lug on the MOTOR MOUNT and a second smaller lug on the curve of the cane, again lined up with the axis through the CG.
Decorating tip. Electrical Tape is the only tape I know that can truly make a Candy Cane (or Barber Pole) style helix around a cylinder. Easiest least elegant way is to paint the whole thing white and use red electrical tape to make the red stripes. Alternative is to paint white, MASK what you want STAY white with any color electrical tape (black is usually cheapest). Paint Again With WHITE over the tape to seal edges. Then paint RED. When dry pull the tape.
@Pabsst idea of inverting it would also greatly simplify things, but may not satisfy the Vibe you are looking for. Tapering/pointing the tip will be aerodynamically more efficient. But this ain’t an altitude maximizer bird, so a blunt nose cone, even a bulkhead, would work just fine.
Cool project.
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Your call, but might wanna ask moderators to move this to Scratch Build forum section.
Nv7
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the tips!
We were planning on painting it white, adding a helix of masking tape, and then painting it red. However, I'll try adding a coat of white on top of the masking tape now.
We put 2 lugs on the motor mount already but if our test launch with an F-35 doesn't work out because it goes curved off the launch rod we will try using another lug on top. I didn't want to worry about trying to line them up.
How do ejection charges and parachutes work with tractor motors?
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
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REAR EJECT! REAR EJECT!
Flying the candy cane and then the banana will set you firmly on the path to the Dark Side. Forever will it guide your destiny! Oddrocs rule! Love those crooked rockets!
Nv7
Well-Known Member
Finished painting! Its not quite perfect but pretty good, especially considering this is my first time painting something this big and my first time painting something with more than one color!
Once our Apogee order comes in we will hook up the shock cord and parachutes, then I'll do a test launch with the Aerotech F-35 to make sure it flies ok without something too powerful. After that, we'll do the real launch with the G80s and a lot of friends for Christmas!
It's not MP yet, but if small tests go well it may eventually be built as MP!
That makes getting rocket parts soooo delicious!
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
They melt in your mouth... not in flight. 
Nv7
Well-Known Member
We finished! Since the previous image we epoxied in a shock cord mount and strung everything up and screwed the fin "can" onto the PVC pipe. Hopefully a test launch with either a F24, F51, or F35 will happen on Saturday!
What do you think the desired velocity off the launch rail should be, considering that the tilted fins will be counteracting the nose cone? I will use this to pick the motor. Is 14 m/s enough?
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Nv7
Well-Known Member
We launched it today!
In the video attached you can see it tilts a lot as it comes off the rail, but as its velocity increases it starts going more upwards, as the fins begin to correct. Unfortunately it barely gets to correct before it runs out of thrust, but it was still pretty good until now
We can see the ejection charge fired because the little cap has burn marks on the bottom, but the parachutes didn't come out and the recovery wadding doesn't look burnt at all. However, we know the motor didn't come out of the rocket until it crashed into the tree because we found the motor near the base of the tree. We found the PVC pipe without anything in it besides the recovery wadding and the shoulder of the nose cone:
View attachment IMG_6265.jpg
I'm not sure why the ejection charge didn't work, we did some calculations and based on the volume of the PVC pipe it should have been plenty strong, plus even though it was really hard to get the shoulder out it was only because there was a bunch of powdered wood inside of it.
View attachment IMG_6268.jpg
Here are the 3d printed bits we found!
Although the rocket did not survive to fly with a G80 we still had a lot of fun! Merry Christmas!
View attachment IMG_6273.jpg
You can watch the slow-motion video of the flight below!
View attachment candycane.MOV
In the video attached you can see it tilts a lot as it comes off the rail, but as its velocity increases it starts going more upwards, as the fins begin to correct. Unfortunately it barely gets to correct before it runs out of thrust, but it was still pretty good until now
We can see the ejection charge fired because the little cap has burn marks on the bottom, but the parachutes didn't come out and the recovery wadding doesn't look burnt at all. However, we know the motor didn't come out of the rocket until it crashed into the tree because we found the motor near the base of the tree. We found the PVC pipe without anything in it besides the recovery wadding and the shoulder of the nose cone:
View attachment IMG_6265.jpg
I'm not sure why the ejection charge didn't work, we did some calculations and based on the volume of the PVC pipe it should have been plenty strong, plus even though it was really hard to get the shoulder out it was only because there was a bunch of powdered wood inside of it.
View attachment IMG_6268.jpg
Here are the 3d printed bits we found!
Although the rocket did not survive to fly with a G80 we still had a lot of fun! Merry Christmas!
View attachment IMG_6273.jpg
You can watch the slow-motion video of the flight below!
View attachment candycane.MOV
Wow, great first flight of the Candy Cane!
It looked like it got more stable as more of the motor burned, so maybe a more nose weight would make it fly straighter up.
Sorry that the ejection event failed. All part of figuring out rocketry. I'm sure you'll have success if launched again.
I may have missed, but what type of motor retention was used?
It looked like it got more stable as more of the motor burned, so maybe a more nose weight would make it fly straighter up.
Sorry that the ejection event failed. All part of figuring out rocketry. I'm sure you'll have success if launched again.
I may have missed, but what type of motor retention was used?
Nv7
Well-Known Member
Here is an image of the rocket before launch:Wow, great first flight of the Candy Cane!
It looked like it got more stable as more of the motor burned, so maybe a more nose weight would make it fly straighter up.
Sorry that the ejection event failed. All part of figuring out rocketry. I'm sure you'll have success if launched again.
I may have missed, but what type of motor retention was used?
View attachment IMG_6255.jpg
We basically 3d-printed a motor retention ring and taped it onto the fin can. I don't think this was the problem though, because it seems that the motor came out only after the fin can disintegrated after slamming the tree. A motor with higher initial impulse would probably have been better, I think the velocity off the launch rail was too low for the fins to correct. I was thinking of launching with an F-51 but it made more sense logistically to use the F-24.
I think we're going to build a traditional rocket and try to launch it as high as we can with the G-80. Are there any limits to how high we can launch?
kjhambrick
Well-Known Member
That was AWESOME, @Mv7 !
I haven't looked REAL hard at the video but after watching it twice in full-screen mode, the rocket seemed to do a drag + gravity turn toward the crook of the cane.
My intuition often plays tricks on me but does it not kinda-sorta make sense that the rocket would want to turn that-a-way ?
More nose weight might hurt more than it helps unless you can somehow offset the mass and the off-center drag of the crook ?
Whee ! Nice build and flight !
Thanks @Nv7 !
-- kjh
EDIT:
It might be fun to mess with a sim program to optomize a G80T for altitude.
Thinking about it another limitation might be the length of the delay in your G80T ...
I haven't looked REAL hard at the video but after watching it twice in full-screen mode, the rocket seemed to do a drag + gravity turn toward the crook of the cane.
My intuition often plays tricks on me but does it not kinda-sorta make sense that the rocket would want to turn that-a-way ?
More nose weight might hurt more than it helps unless you can somehow offset the mass and the off-center drag of the crook ?
Whee ! Nice build and flight !
Thanks @Nv7 !
-- kjh
EDIT:
As long as the rocket plus the G80T weigh less than 53 oz ( 1500 grams ), as I understand it, the only altitude limit would be the laws of physics and the size of your launch site.
It might be fun to mess with a sim program to optomize a G80T for altitude.
Thinking about it another limitation might be the length of the delay in your G80T ...
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