Camcorder Rocket. Need Advice

[sucka]

Ok... first post but I have been quietly reading the forums for a while now. I am fairly new to rocketry. This is my third rocket. A few months ago I found this website (https://www.csh.rit.edu/~soup/cvscam/) and thought this would be a neat idea to try. After several months and many mistakes I manged to get my disposablecamcorder modified and mounted in a estes canadian arrow. I mounted mine a bit different then the website (see picture). I have put alot of time into this so would like to have at least one successful launch.

On to my questions:

1. Parachutes: I hope my attached image makes sense. I am planning on having three chutes. 2 -12" chutes for the nose cone and 1 18" for the main body. They will come down seperate. I decided on two chutes for the cone to keep it from spinning coming down (more stable video). When the nose cone chutes are not deployed, their lines will basically run down the side of the nose cone and tuck into the body tube. I will have to drill holes in the nose cone to attach the chutes and plan on just tying them with knots. I have standard estes chutes from my last project. See any problems with this plan?

2. will my buttons and camera mirror affect the trajectory alot?

3. my total weight is about 300 grams with the engine. The weight of my nose cone is about 130 grams. I am planning on using a D12-3 engine. Will I make it off the ground? How high do you think it will go?

Thanks for you help! Very cool forum.

 

[Chrisn]

Hello welcome to TRF but sorry i cant help you because i dont have experience with that

 

[danc]

Hi, neat project. You might want to check out my page as well which explains how to build a video rocket using only the parts from two stormcaster kits and the aiptek minicam.

https://home.earthlink.net/~tacquire/pencam

 

[Chrisn]

I suggest you download free software from here https://www.wrasp.com/ and put in all the details of your rocket the wheight what motor your using etc and it will tell you how fast and how high it will go

 

[cjl]

300g sounds a bit on the heavy side - I would personally put in a 29mm. A D12-3 will lift it off the ground, but it will NOT go very high (200 feet or less)

 

[Craig Bosworth]

Welcome, sucka.

I have made a few vidrocs and Canadian Arrow kit, so I'll give you my take on your questions.

Originally posted by sucka
1. Parachutes: I hope my attached image makes sense. I am planning on having three chutes. 2 -12" chutes for the nose cone and 1 18" for the main body. They will come down seperate. I decided on two chutes for the cone to keep it from spinning coming down (more stable video). When the nose cone chutes are not deployed, their lines will basically run down the side of the nose cone and tuck into the body tube. I will have to drill holes in the nose cone to attach the chutes and plan on just tying them with knots. I have standard estes chutes from my last project. See any problems with this plan?

The stock kit uses a single 18" parachute, so you will be carrying quite a bit more parachute than stock. Yes, your rocket will be heavier than stock, but not that much. By all means, fly with the extra chute at first, as long as you don't think the risk of it drifting away is too great. But I think you will migrate down as you gain experience.

By the way, rockets descending on parachutes spin. Expect it. Hell, mine spin on the way up too!

2. will my buttons and camera mirror affect the trajectory alot?

No. With the extra weight in the nose, your rocket will be overstable and will easily overcome the extra forward drag of your appendages.

3. my total weight is about 300 grams with the engine. The weight of my nose cone is about 130 grams. I am planning on using a D12-3 engine. Will I make it off the ground? How high do you think it will go?

The stock Canadian Arrow will go around 500 feet on that motor in relatively still air. With the camera, you can expect maybe half that.

If you are like me, you will find on-board video to be challenging, fun, and very cool. Good luck!

Edit: Oh, and post your videos! (I use clipshack.com and putfile.com.)

 

[AKPilot]

Welcome to the forum! And, which ever way you go, what a great challenge you've taken on!

 

[m85476585]

I launch my Executioner, which weighs just under 300g on D12-3s and E9-4s all the time. I think D12-3s can lift something like 400g max.

 

[richalex2010]

Welcome to TRF!

You've not got any lack in painting skills already, that CA looks really nice

You might want to consider composite motors for more altitude, like the E30T, which will get a good bit of altitude Good luck with this!

 

[sucka]

Thanks for the responses. I am amazed how quick I received so many answers. A couple followup questions:

Is there a site somewhere that lists maximum weights for different size parachutes? what is the most weight you should put on a 12" chute for example? a minimum weight for 18" chute?

Also...I filled the bottom of my nosecone with a piece of foam to protect the camera from the ejection charge. What Im wondering is will that keep my nosecone from ejecting properly? Does the gas normally fill the cone to "pull" it off or does it just push against the bottom and push it off?Do I need vent holes in the foam?

 

[danc]

No you don't need any vent holes.. As a matter of fact you want to completely seal the camera from the ejection gases or it will quickly be ruined. BP is extremely corrosive and hydroscopic meaning it attracts water when it's burnt.

 

[sucka]

Is it ok to completely plug the hole in the bottom of the cone then?

 

[danc]

Most definitely You have to plug it.

 

[sucka]

wow. glad I asked.

 

[prowlerguy]

I hate to be the slow one, but how are the two 12" chutes going to be deployed? It look like the camera is between the engine ejection and those top two chutes. Are you planning on using electronics for that?

 

[sucka]

i was planning on having the the two chutes stored in the body tube with just the main lines running along the nosecone and connected to the top of the nosecone. like the picture here https://www.csh.rit.edu/~soup/cvscam/DCP_2096.JPG

 

[danc]

I found that with my stormcaster rocket I had to run a shock cord out the side of my payload bay to a slot in the side of the payload/body tube coupler so that the chute would come down above the payload and give the camera a softer landing. I think he's doing something similiar here in an attempt to have the chutes above the payload and force the lower part of the rocket to land first. With my aiptek camera it would lock up if it landed too hard which would cause me to lose my video.

This is how mine looks:

Stormcaster Pencam:
https://home.earthlink.net/~tacquire/pencam/

 

[RalliART]

Thanks for posting this...

I now have one of these cameras for my Graduator, I'm going to Commonwealth Displays for a Loc payload bay to put it in.

 

[sucka]

Well I had three successful launches on monday but only one video. I decided initially to just install my parachute without modifications. This meant that the video on descent would be upside down but less risk of something going wrong on the first launch. Everything worked and I got a sucessfull video. I have posted the clip Here. It is cool watching it frame by frame as you can see all kind of hidden details. You will also notice in the video that one of the lines of my parachute broke or untied. At the end of the video I have put some stills of some of the cool frames from the video. Notice the fireball coming out. Is that normal?! Pretty cool anyhow.

my second launch was much better but the camera hit the ground a little hard and the battery popped out a little bit which made me lose the video.

My third launch I taped up the batteries so they wouldnt fall out. I also modified the rocket to use two chutes on the nosecone/camera and one chute on the main body. The launch was perfect and the both pieces landed within a few feet of me! Only one problem..... I forgot to turn on the camera before launching! agghhh. very stupid mistake. Oh well. I have bought more motors and will launch again when the weather is good.

 

[stevem]

excellent job! love the video - I assume the fireball you see is ejection charge?

 

[RalliART]

Sweet!!! I can't wait to get mine installed into my Graduator now...

 

[Craig Bosworth]

Well done, sucka!

The sound is very interesting, much different from my Multipod.

The wiggle on motor burnout is very interesting. It looks like the nose cone is trying to drag separate. Make sure it's not too loose in the body tube.

And you are not the first to forget to turn on your camera. (Don't ask me how I know...)

Keep the videos coming!

 

[sucka]

I launched again yesterday at the NARHAMS Fun Launch. A nice NARHAMS and TRF member at the event gave me an E9-4 which seemed to double the height of my previous launches using the D12-3s. It was also the first video that I have captured with my new parachute configuration. I have posted the video here.

 

[RalliART]

Originally posted by sucka
I launched again yesterday at the NARHAMS Fun Launch. A nice NARHAMS and TRF member at the event gave me an E9-4 which seemed to double the height of my previous launches using the D12-3s. It was also the first video that I have captured with my new parachute configuration. I have posted the video here.

Link doesn't work...

 

[sucka]

Oops. My Bad. It should work now.

 

[RalliART]

Man I can't wait for my Loc Graduator, with this camera, to get airborne.

So if I recall correctly, you have 2 chutes for the cone and 1 for the booster right?

Any problems with the setup?

 

[zog43editor]

It was a great flight! Just think how high it would have gone on the F39!

Is the mirror adjustable so you can angle it out a little more?


kj

 

[sucka]

RalliArt. You are correct on the configuration. It seemed to work fairly well as well. The video still spinned alot on descent but I am not sure what else I can do about that.

Zog... thanks for the motor again! The mirror, unfortunately, is not adjustable. I was getting anxious so I just epoxied it in place. I wish It was angled out a little more as well. Although I do like seeing all the flames and smoke come out. So... I have been looking into F-motors. Do you think the F20-7 is my best bet then?

 

[Craig Bosworth]

Well done, sucka. Keep them coming!

 

[zog43editor]

Originally posted by sucka
So... I have been looking into F-motors. Do you think the F20-7 is my best bet then?

With your current motor mount, I think the F21-6 would be what you're gonna see the best results with. It's the same size as the E9 you flew on this weekend. The F20's are 29mm and would require some major surgery.

kj