Blue Raven - Multiple app issues

[apwellin]

I've emailed Adrian with the issues I'm having which I haven't seen reported anywhere, but I thought I would see if anyone else has seen these while I wait for a reply. They seem pretty basic so I'm surprised not to have seen them reported anywhere that I can find. Can't imagine that having to delete the app and redownload every time you turn the BR off wouldn't get reported, but on the other hand there's nothing unusual about my phone.

BR connects ok to app (well almost, I have to press the connect button & dialog twice every time (1)).
Changed the name fine, turns off beeps (although this doesn't seem to hold (2)- is that expected behaviour - that you have to turn them off every time?). Change to deployment height seems to hold. All 3 LEDs working as expected, voltage shows as expected, APO, main show as armed. Simulation fires both matches fine.

Forget device doesn't work for BR (3), but does for the trackers/receiver.

Following is my big problem, when power is disconnected the BR still shows as connected on devices screen (4), but then clearly isn't on the altimeter screen. Compared with the tracker which immediately shows as disconnected. Additionally after power is off the while the various outputs show as red, the armed sliders below are still green.

Now here's the kicker, once it says connected but isn't actually, you cannot reconnect the altimeter. If you swipe up on the app it does not clear it. So you are stuck with an altimeter that is not connected, although I guess would still work in the air independently of the fact that you cannot now connect to it via the app. After swiping up on the app and then reopening the "Featherweight Altimeters" splash screen pops up and stays. The only way to solve that problem is to delete the app and redownload (5). I have been doing a LOT of downloading of this app.

Another problem I found is that if I connect the tracker first and then connect the BR, the BR will briefly show on the devices screen and then disappear (6). If you check the altimeter screen it displays as if it is connected. Annoying but not catastrophic, just have to remember to always connect BR first.

Edited to add that I have rebooted iphone a couple of times and also tried an older iphone with exact same results.

Iphone 12, IOS 17.4.1 , upgraded the tracker firmware (although it was the same version).

Anyone seen any of these, any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?

 

[manixFan]

Sounds dumb, but have you restarted your phone? Simple, but often effective.

Otherwise, try another phone if you have one available. That will help you figure out it it’s the phone or the other hardware.


Tony

 

[apwellin]

Sounds dumb, but have you restarted your phone? Simple, but often effective.

Otherwise, try another phone if you have one available. That will help you figure out it it’s the phone or the other hardware.


Tony

Sure did, done the classic reboot several times. Also tried an older iphone and was able to repeat the exact same issues.

 

[Adrian A]

None of the above are normal, except that beeps are re-enabled every time the Blue Raven is power cycled or reset.

My developer says he has looked into the crash logs, and your iPhone 12 is the only installation where this has happened. I'm not sure why he wouldn't have seen the test you did with the older iPhone. But he thinks he may have a fix for it, and I'll be testing out a build with that today.

 

[apwellin]

None of the above are normal, except that beeps are re-enabled every time the Blue Raven is power cycled or reset.

My developer says he has looked into the crash logs, and your iPhone 12 is the only installation where this has happened. I'm not sure why he wouldn't have seen the test you did with the older iPhone. But he thinks he may have a fix for it, and I'll be testing out a build with that today.

That’s great news. I was going to put together a video for you but will hold off that for now.

 

[roytyson]

None of the above are normal, except that beeps are re-enabled every time the Blue Raven is power cycled or reset.

My developer says he has looked into the crash logs, and your iPhone 12 is the only installation where this has happened. I'm not sure why he wouldn't have seen the test you did with the older iPhone. But he thinks he may have a fix for it, and I'll be testing out a build with that today.

I'm having multiple issues of the same sort with mine this weekend.
1. Pixel 7 android, it gets "stuck", and either will not connect or can not operator within the app unless I reboot my phone. Had to do this at least 5 times this past weekend for one flight.
2. Every single time I connected for a two-stage flight, I had to DISARM channel 4 and ARM channel 3. Channel 3 held the settings but would not stay ARMED after closing app.

 

[kjhambrick]

I'm having multiple issues of the same sort with mine this weekend.
1. Pixel 7 android, it gets "stuck", and either will not connect or can not operator within the app unless I reboot my phone. Had to do this at least 5 times this past weekend for one flight.
2. Every single time I connected for a two-stage flight, I had to DISARM channel 4 and ARM channel 3. Channel 3 held the settings but would not stay ARMED after closing app.

@roytyson --

For #1 - getting stuck ...

My Samsung Note 20 Android Phone does much the same thing from time to time.

I found that I can avoid rebooting my phone by going to [Down Swipe] -> [*] -> [Apps] -> [Blue Raven] -> [Force Stop]

Then go back into the Blue Raven App and it will then reconnect for me.

I've have not flown a two stage rocket ( yet ) so I can't help with #2 ...

HTH

-- kjh

 

[Adrian A]

I'm having multiple issues of the same sort with mine this weekend.
1. Pixel 7 android, it gets "stuck", and either will not connect or can not operator within the app unless I reboot my phone. Had to do this at least 5 times this past weekend for one flight.

From my developer: "Try turning off the (Nearby share/Quick share) or to limit the time for sharing to 1 minute. If the issue still persists I would recommend turn off and on the bluetooth instead of rebooting phone/application"

2. Every single time I connected for a two-stage flight, I had to DISARM channel 4 and ARM channel 3. Channel 3 held the settings but would not stay ARMED after closing app.

This is a feature, rather than a bug. The software arming can only be done by the phone app. It starts out disarmed whenever the unit is power cycled or the phone app is restarted, so that if something weird is going on, the Blue Raven won't ignite the airstart even if the user is not available to disarm it or forgets. The intention is for the software arming step to be the last thing you do before walking away from the pad. If you don't want this extra safety step, you can disable it by going into the custom configuration option for the channel and turn on "Armed at power-up"

 

[kjhambrick]

From my developer: "Try turning off the (Nearby share/Quick share) or to limit the time for sharing to 1 minute. If the issue still persists I would recommend turn off and on the bluetooth instead of rebooting phone/application"

Thanks for this one, Adrian.

That makes sense -- I'll try restarting my BlueTooth instead of doing a force stop of the Blue Raven App next time !

-- kjh

 

[SnapRoll]

I can’t get the app to send settings to either of the BR’s I’ve got on a board.. the App says “Settings Error,” and reverts to default settings. Anyone run into this and have a fix?

 

[Adrian A]

I can’t get the app to send settings to either of the BR’s I’ve got on a board.. the App says “Settings Error,” and reverts to default settings. Anyone run into this and have a fix?

View attachment 645314

I haven’t run into it myself but one other customer has. We haven’t nailed down the cause yet. You have a relatively early serial number. Do you recall which build you updated from? My developer is working on a fix but in the meantime something that might help is to erase all the configuration settings, first by trying to use the button for ”reset all settings to factory defaults” that’s in the deploy top-level menu. If that doesn’t work you can erase the whole configuration area of the flash chip by sending the back door command “erase config” via the USB serial port and a terminal program like RealTerm.

 

[roytyson]

From my developer: "Try turning off the (Nearby share/Quick share) or to limit the time for sharing to 1 minute. If the issue still persists I would recommend turn off and on the bluetooth instead of rebooting phone/application"



This is a feature, rather than a bug. The software arming can only be done by the phone app. It starts out disarmed whenever the unit is power cycled or the phone app is restarted, so that if something weird is going on, the Blue Raven won't ignite the airstart even if the user is not available to disarm it or forgets. The intention is for the software arming step to be the last thing you do before walking away from the pad. If you don't want this extra safety step, you can disable it by going into the custom configuration option for the channel and turn on "Armed at power-up"

Ok, so as far as arming, this is NOT what its doing. Every time I have powered it up, the main and appogee IS ALREADY armed, which contributed to another incident I wasn't prepared for, but another story. Main/Appogeeand 4th are auto armed, and I had to shut off 4th and arm third for my second stage.

Not one time since I got this, have I had to arm the Apo or Main.

 

[Adrian A]

Yes, it’s only the airstart function that is software disarmed by default. Apogee and main deployments are armed at power up by default, consistent with the Raven and other altimeters, so that all the user needs to do at the pad to ensure the laundry comes out is turn on the altimeter at the pad.

And if you want any channel to be the other way around, you can make that selection in the custom configuration screen.

 

[Neutronium95]

Yes, it’s only the airstart function that is software disarmed by default. Apogee and main deployments are armed at power up by default, consistent with the Raven and other altimeters, so that all the user needs to do at the pad to ensure the laundry comes out is turn on the altimeter at the pad.

If someone has a tall rocket, and doesn't have a ladder to access electronics high off the ground, would it be possible to set the regular deployment channels to be disarmed at power up, turn on the electronics while the rocket is horizontal, and only arm the channel once the rocket is vertical? I'm mostly just wondering if the movement of the rocket before arming the channels could screw with launch detection or cause any other problems. I've helped with a flight or two that could have benefitted from an arming procedure like that.

 

[Adrian A]

If someone has a tall rocket, and doesn't have a ladder to access electronics high off the ground, would it be possible to set the regular deployment channels to be disarmed at power up, turn on the electronics while the rocket is horizontal, and only arm the channel once the rocket is vertical? I'm mostly just wondering if the movement of the rocket before arming the channels could screw with launch detection or cause any other problems. I've helped with a flight or two that could have benefitted from an arming procedure like that.

The app supports that, and the Blue Raven’s launch detection is designed to handle that prelaunch rotation as long as the rocket is raised slowly. If there is an accidental launch detection while it’s on the ground with disarmed deployments, it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it wouldn’t be obvious in the UI that it happened. and the prelaunch beeps would stop to let you know it's not ready to go again.

And although it’s possible to use the UI to reset back to prelaunch mode in that scenario, the methods to do it are also not obvious. I have been avoiding adding the Blue Raven flight state to the UI because it’s just another thing the user has to learn about and understand, and there is already a lot of information on the screen. But I’ll think about adding it anyway because it can be important to know and control.

Edited to add information about the beeps.

 

[Aeva]

The app supports that, and the Blue Raven’s launch detection is designed to handle that prelaunch rotation as long as the rocket is raised slowly. If there is an accidental launch detection while it’s on the ground with disarmed deployments, it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it wouldn’t be obvious in the UI that it happened.

And although it’s possible to use the UI to reset back to prelaunch mode in that scenario, the methods to do it are also not obvious. I have been avoiding adding the Blue Raven flight state to the UI because it’s just another thing the user has to learn about and understand, and there is already a lot of information on the screen. But I’ll think about adding it anyway because it can be important to know and control.

What conditions does the blueraven check before arming and triggering the ECs?

For example, I've been checking an altitude range above ground (I provide a range that the EC can activate within rather than a single value, ie: 100-120m), v-speed (filtered), and runtime; I plan to add a check for the accelerometer but the other few have been sufficiently safe. (not currently using it for apogee deployments, but I would probably use similar checks, a range below apogee dynamically determined during flight; accelerometer, etc; I know you have a tilt sensor, I'm not currently reacting to orientation of the rocket)

 

[mikec]

The app supports that, and the Blue Raven’s launch detection is designed to handle that prelaunch rotation as long as the rocket is raised slowly. If there is an accidental launch detection while it’s on the ground with disarmed deployments, it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it wouldn’t be obvious in the UI that it happened.

What happens if you then arm and launch anyway?

Not to name names in this forum, but one of your competitor's products proved so flaky and poorly documented IMHO that I refuse to use them ever again. I'm sure you've done much better, but this thread is not filling me with confidence. I was always pretty sure what the original Raven would do in any given circumstance, I'm not there yet with the Blue Raven.

[added] BTW, please don't take this as anything but constructive criticism. I'm a longtime Raven user and I can definitely understand that a new product will have teething pains, especially with all the pain that phone software developers go through.

 

[Adrian A]

I was incorrect to say that it wouldn't be obvious if there was a false liftoff detection. Writing forum posts immediately after waking up is not a good idea. The correct answer is that just like the Raven, the Blue Raven indicates it's ready to launch using beeps. I usually use the app to turn off my Blue Raven's beeps right away when I'm at home, just because listening to beeps for the past 12 years is kind of a lot of beeps. But I leave the the beeps enabled when I go to the pad with a Blue Raven so I get another confirmation that the Blue Raven is ready to launch. If you don't hear the beeps when you're expecting them or don't like the continuity status that they give, don't launch. I think I'm also going to update the UI make that visible and more accessible, along with providing a single place to look that summarizes whether it's ready or not ready for launch, in case the altimeter is too high up to hear the beeps.

Also like the Raven, there are a lot of protections built in to avoid a false liftoff detection. A false liftoff detection is even less likely with the Blue Raven than the Raven, due to improved accelerometers, validation of calibration values, and more stringent launch detection checks in the software checks. So if you're confident in the Raven's ability to avoid a false liftoff detection, you should have even more confidence about that with the Blue Raven.

What happens if you then arm and launch anyway?

When a launch is detected, the Blue Raven responds just as the Raven does, by recording the flight, detecting landing and then waiting in landed mode until it is power cycled to get ready for another launch. If you launch while the altimeter is in that landed state, then the altimeter won't do anything you would want it to do, so don't do that. Generally this isn't a problem because you would be turning the altimeter off as part of the process of replacing the deployment charges for a new flight.

In addition to a power cycle, the Blue Raven also adds the capability of using Bluetooth to command it back into prelaunch mode. At the moment, the app doesn't make this available except when returning to the main screen after going to the ground test screen, calibration screen, or simulation setup screen. I'm thinking about adding a button that commands prelaunch mode and gives a single a go/no-go summary that checks for healthy sensors, connected charges, and prelaunch mode.

Not to name names in this forum, but one of your competitor's products proved so flaky and poorly documented IMHO that I refuse to use them ever again. I'm sure you've done much better, but this thread is not filling me with confidence. I was always pretty sure what the original Raven would do in any given circumstance, I'm not there yet with the Blue Raven.

Nothing is higher priority for me than making sure that the Featherweight products are as reliable in flight and as resistant to user error as I can make them. I like to innovate new features and capabilities, but none of that matters if the products aren't trusted.

 

[apwellin]

None of the above are normal, except that beeps are re-enabled every time the Blue Raven is power cycled or reset.

My developer says he has looked into the crash logs, and your iPhone 12 is the only installation where this has happened. I'm not sure why he wouldn't have seen the test you did with the older iPhone. But he thinks he may have a fix for it, and I'll be testing out a build with that today.

Hi Adrian, any luck with testing that new build?

 

[Adrian A]

Hi Adrian, any luck with testing that new build?

I’ve been traveling for a graduation this weekend but I hope to continue testing today.