AT Electronic Forward Closure System: "Anyone....Bueheler...Anyone?"

[lalligood]

Originally posted by uncle_vanya
Just to be clear - I am not saying that Gary is selling these inappropriately. I have no idea if LEUP's are required or not - I'm asking.

Then maybe it's time you email/contact Gary instead of carrying on & on & on about this here... So instead of so much speculation about the sale of components for this product, how about we return back to the original intent of this thread: talking about using the product? Please.

 

[wildbluerocket]

Originally posted by lalligood
Then maybe it\'s time you email/contact Gary instead of carrying on & on & on about this here... So instead of so much speculation about the sale of components for this product, how about we return back to the original intent of this thread: talking about using the product? Please.

The creator of this thread asked two question, they were both answered a long time ago. It was never just about using the product. Now that I look back at the questions, it looks more like bait for a thrashing...

Originally posted by Deandome
Who has it? Do you like it? Is it worth the $$?

IMO...it kinda looks like a product in need of a market.

I think most of us agree.

I\'d suggest moving on and starting a new thread to talk about LEUP\'s and BP. But, it would probably get deleted after hearing the answer people don\'t want to hear.

 

[deandome]

Originally posted by wildbluerocket
The creator of this thread asked two question, they were both answered a long time ago.

"The Creator"....I like that.

But, alas, NOBODY really answered my questions, and there were 3, not 2:

Who has it? Do you like it? Is it worth the $$?

But I guess 1900 views & 91 replies without a clear answer really IS the answer....nobody here has this or has 1st hand experience of seeing it in action at a launch.

THAT says volumes. It's been out about 6 mos...right? NOBODY'S seen it in action?

Yikes!! Look for a fire sale soon!!

And as to LEUP & BP...first off, to suggest you/anyone has "the answer" is rather arrogant....NODODY has "the" answer, much less "AN" answer when it comes to the everchanging regs that are open to as many interpretations as there are ATF agents.

LEUPS in general are confusing, but I THINK it's clear that their relation to BP ejection charges are a total non-issue with mid-power rocketry; it comes with the reload...it's legal. And in HP, everyone, of course, HAS a LEUP...right? So again, there really is NO LEUP issue with BP in rocketry...period.

I take that back, there's a SLIGHT issue with the Warp 9 G motor...it doesn't come with a charge & it doesn't require a LEUP on the propellent-weight angle. I'm 99% sure a fed would never/could never MAKE an issue out of it, but if AT was smart, they'd include a silly little charge w/the reload to preempt anything. They know there has to be SOME ejection method, so they might as well include a dirt-cheap dose of BP.

 

[Art Upton]

Originally posted by Deandome
.....


But I guess 1900 views & 91 replies without a clear answer really IS the answer....nobody here has this or has 1st hand experience of seeing it in action at a launch.

THAT says volumes. It's been out about 6 mos...right? NOBODY'S seen it in action?

Well, if you had paid attention to your thread, you would have seen Erik post a few times of his and his son's first hand experiance with the product.

And for extra measure I had one in my hands at LDRS and looked at it first hand.

 

[Porthos II]

Originally posted by Deandome
"The Creator"....I like that.

But, alas, NOBODY really answered my questions, and there were 3, not 2:



But I guess 1900 views & 91 replies without a clear answer really IS the answer....nobody here has this or has 1st hand experience of seeing it in action at a launch.

THAT says volumes. It's been out about 6 mos...right? NOBODY'S seen it in action?

Yikes!! Look for a fire sale soon!!

And as to LEUP & BP...first off, to suggest you/anyone has "the answer" is rather arrogant....NODODY has "the" answer, much less "AN" answer when it comes to the everchanging regs that are open to as many interpretations as there are ATF agents.

LEUPS in general are confusing, but I THINK it's clear that their relation to BP ejection charges are a total non-issue with mid-power rocketry; it comes with the reload...it's legal. And in HP, everyone, of course, HAS a LEUP...right? So again, there really is NO LEUP issue with BP in rocketry...period.

I take that back, there's a SLIGHT issue with the Warp 9 G motor...it doesn't come with a charge & it doesn't require a LEUP on the propellent-weight angle. I'm 99% sure a fed would never/could never MAKE an issue out of it, but if AT was smart, they'd include a silly little charge w/the reload to preempt anything. They know there has to be SOME ejection method, so they might as well include a dirt-cheap dose of BP.

Well I will try answering your question…

I have one, I like it, and it was worth every penny.

By the way, the initial batch sold out at LDRS 25 in Texas where they were debuted. I know ROC members own a few.

Each product, (electronics, motors, hardware, parachutes) has its advantages and disadvantages. Some people will like it, others will hate it. I love to see people talk about products and what they like. I hate it when it comes down to a bashing thread.

The EFC is a great way to start flying electronics without the hassle of building an electronics bay. If you buy an RDAS, (which we do own), you need to design and build an electronics bay. You need to mount the electronics board, mount the battery, mount the ejection charge holder, wire the arming switch, wire to the ejection charge, wire to the battery. And do this in each rocket you want to fly the electronics in. The EFC moves effortlessly from rocket to rocket on top of the motor. Brilliant design. I would love to see this accelerometer based. How bout it Gary?

The BP issue…. Are we concerned with the sale of an RDAS, on the source of your black powder for the ejection charge? How about a Perfect Flight? I have not seen that thread… The question of the LEUP falls on who you buy from. Don’t ask Aerotech, because Aerotech does not check for your LEUP when you buy a reload… The dealer does. If you want to know if the BP requires a LEUP, ask the dealer you are buying it from. I think the fact that the BP is packaged and designed for hobby rockets, that it falls under the same “rules” that the BP in the reloads fall under. But that is my opinion. So rather than scream and point, and if your dealer will sell it to you, what more is there to it?

Go fly some rockets!

 

[wildbluerocket]

Originally posted by Art Upton
Well, if you had paid attention to your thread, you would have seen Erik post a few times of his and his son's first hand experiance with the product.

And for extra measure I had one in my hands at LDRS and looked at it first hand.

Yes, so did I. I was impressed at PerfectFlite's work designing it, but it's a "product looking for a market".

 

[uncle_vanya]

I think people are failing to read the whole thread and the actual posts.

The black powder in question isn't simply generic black powder. It is an ejection charge sold as a separate item. No altimeter or timer manufacturer offers an ejection charge as far as I am aware.

These charges appear to not be covered under the antique firearms clause - and it certainly doesn't ship with a motor. If in fact these are available without a LEUP then that's GREAT news assuming it's ok with the ATF. If not then a LEUP is required to use the EFC with BP and that reduces the appeal for some and is very relevant to the question that started the topic.

Those who state the if the Dealer doesn't ask for paperwork it's ok and you are off the hook - either do not know the law or are counting on a lack of enforcement. Given our current lawsuit and the issues around this it would seem to be the worst time to advise people on ways to skirt the law.

I'm tired of this bickering. No one who has the device feels like answering the questions about a LEUP. This thread makes me want to take a break from the whole forum. Thanks.

 

[deandome]

What I'm saying is that with any SINGLE deploy rocket (the only thing covered in this thread, BTW) be it motor/EFC/altimiter/timer fired ejection charge....BP isn't an issue because it comes with the reload kit.

With dual deploy...there's a SLIGHT chance a nosy fed might make an issue by saying "hey...you only get enough BP for one ejection charge...you used two...where'd you get the extra BP??"

But again, one can say "I've been saving up little bits from my reloads for years because I don't use the whole amount that AT gives me. Here's my little jar with 15 grams or so...I know it's toxic and dangerous, so proper/legal disposal of my unused portions is next to impossible...this is clearly the most responsible thing to do, isn't it?" And, of course, most DP stuff is H+, so (theoretically) people are s'posed to have LEUPS to launch them!

 

[heada]

Warp9 reloads don't come with BP so saying the the BP is always supplied with the reload isn't always true. Also, you can be flying a hybrid motor all the way up to O class now and it not require a LEUP (just certification) so saying that flying H+ motors requires a LEUP isn't always true either.

That said, I very seriously doubt a BATFE agent would question your source of a few grams of BP. (I've never even seen a BATFE agent at a launch)

I don't know of any vendor that sells Aerotech's Ejection Charge Kit (first time I'd heard of it was in this thread) so I don't know if it is sold with out without a LEUP.

-Aaron

 

[jadebox]

I bought some of the EFC ejection charges recently. I have a LEUP on file with the vendor, so I don't know if it was required, but I don't think it was.

The ejection charges come in little plastic test-tube-like containers with snap-on lids. Some of the recent reloads I have bought have the ejection charges in the same containers. They are very nice and convenient. And I can't help thinking that it's safer than having to pour BP from larger can.

-- Roger