Are all small chutes drogue chutes?

[danielhv]

I imagine not - but not sure. Looking for a 15" drogue for my Punisher 3. Main is from TopFlight, but they don't list anything labeled as "drogue"...

 

[tsmith1315]

If you put it where the drogue goes, it’s a drogue chute. I use standard TF chutes.

 

[Art Upton]

All except a special type of deployment bag recovery, I used "Drogueless" on Dual Deploy; I think it is a Midwest thing.

I used the Deployment bag on a few M rockets with a Drogue chute plus a Pryo charge chute release [no need for that now with JLCR], but regular DD rockets just came down flat sideways when drougeless. The M 4" rocket in my Avatar was Drogeless.

 

[Titan II]

https://shop.fruitychutes.com/collections/drogue-parachutes
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build.../High_Power/15in_Classic_Elliptical_Parachute

 

[Art Upton]

https://shop.fruitychutes.com/collections/drogue-parachutes
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build.../High_Power/15in_Classic_Elliptical_Parachute

Am I getting old Grampa, or is a $66 dollar 15" chute really needed unless I have a really late late apogee deployment? I remember KY [rocketman] selling expensive drogue chutes in the early and mid 2000s?

Edit: or a real Early deployment

 

[Troy3003]

Talk to Ted at Onebadhawk. He has some heavy duty Topflite X drogues. Reasonably priced too.

 

[PSLimo]

I use this recon chute for mine. Reasonably priced at $32 from Tim

https://wildmanrocketry.com/collections/parachutes/products/recon-recovery-drogue-12

 

[-Slick-Ice]

I have both the recon 12" and 24" drogue. Very well made.

 

[manixFan]

Any chute can be used as a drogue chute, but typically they are fairly robust since they are often deployed at high speeds or subject to substantial loads. In the case of a drogue attached to a deployment bag, it is critical it does its job or the main will likely not deploy. So a robust chute makes sense. Chutes used as drogues in a dual deployment setup may be deployed with substantial horizontal velocity due to weathercocking, so a tough chute is desirable.

For larger rockets, I typically use multi panel chutes, for smaller ones, a well made flat chute can work. The main criteria should be survivability and appropriate size for the job.


Tony

 

[bschultz32]

I used a 24" Rocketman Pro-X drogue parachute purchased for $36 for use in my L3 attempt. Worked great. It's one tough little parachute, robustly built, and I imagine it will take just about anything I ask it to do. I could have bought a cheaper drogue chute, but I don't think I could find one better.

 

[Onebadhawk]

Talk to Ted at Onebadhawk. He has some heavy duty Topflite X drogues. Reasonably priced too.

Lol,
Thank you so much Troy.
Yes, anything that applies drag in the correct place and is deployed at the apogee event is a drogue.
But all drogues are not created equal, and all set ups don't work the same either.

Drogue less is completely uncontrolled.
Where the nose is pointed when it fires is a hope and a prayer.
Look at all the pics of rockets deploying.

https://onebadhawk.com/mars-8222015.html
Then look at the flight of my "SteamPunk".
It's the flight on that same page beginning with this pic.




There are many pics of this flight.
This series depicts what my set up does.
It uses the drogue to keep the nose pointed out and away from everything else so it fires into open clear air.
Drogues.
I have a line of drogues custom made exclusively for me by Top Flight.
They're their Ultra X Form chutes in very small sizes, 12", 16", 20", 24"...
They're the most solid, robust chutes I've ever seen, period.
You can feel it, you could put one out of your car window on the highway and it wouldn't be damaged.
That's what a drogue is for, that's what a drogue should do.

And yes, they're not expensive, they're small..

Teddy

 

[Chad]

one thing about drogues is many altimeters can be configured to deploy the drogue when things go wrong. If something goes wrong at very high speed and the drogue is a plain small parachute then it may just shred. It may make sense to get a drogue that's a little more heavy duty than the main parachute for this reason.

 

[Handeman]

... but regular DD rockets just came down flat sideways when drougeless.

Until they don't. Which from what I've seen, is most of the time.

I've seen lots of drogueless rockets come down ballistic where the payload section drags the fincan down. These usually have the main shoot downward and open as the payload is going past it to the end of the upper shock cord. Then the fincan falls past the chute, the payload, and hits the end of the drogue shock cord with a lot of energy and shock. Usually everything holds together because most folks over build, but I've seen a welded Eye-bold ripped out of a 3/4" aircraft ply CR and the fincan never slowed down, it just came in hot.

Many times the fincan leads the way, the angle to the ground is usually less then 45° and the fins act as wings and the rocket flies off in some random direction. That's good if it's against the wind, but suck if it's with the wind. I watched one 3,000 ft flight with 500 ft. main move 1500 ft left to right, 90° from the wind direction because it was flying like that. It's actually quite common for drogueless flights if you watch for and recognize it.

The point is, without a drogue, you have zero control on how the rocket falls, which for most DD flights, the apogee to main is the longest part of the flight.

OP, Sperachutes sells an Apex Drogue. It's designed specifically as a drogue chute. I have several I made from thin Nomex and Kevlar strapping so with a Kevlar shock cord, no wadding or chute protectors are needed. I have found they are the only chutes I need to put swivels on.

 

[Art Upton]

Until they don't. Which from what I've seen, is most of the time.

I've seen lots of drogueless rockets come down ballistic where the payload section drags the fincan down. These usually have the main shoot downward and open as the payload is going past it to the end of the upper shock cord. Then the fincan falls past the chute, the payload, and hits the end of the drogue shock cord with a lot of energy and shock. Usually everything holds together because most folks over build, but I've seen a welded Eye-bold ripped out of a 3/4" aircraft ply CR and the fincan never slowed down, it just came in hot.

Many times the fincan leads the way, the angle to the ground is usually less then 45° and the fins act as wings and the rocket flies off in some random direction. That's good if it's against the wind, but suck if it's with the wind. I watched one 3,000 ft flight with 500 ft. main move 1500 ft left to right, 90° from the wind direction because it was flying like that. It's actually quite common for drogueless flights if you watch for and recognize it.

The point is, without a drogue, you have zero control on how the rocket falls, which for most DD flights, the apogee to main is the longest part of the flight.

OP, Sperachutes sells an Apex Drogue. It's designed specifically as a drogue chute. I have several I made from thin Nomex and Kevlar strapping so with a Kevlar shock cord, no wadding or chute protectors are needed. I have found they are the only chutes I need to put swivels on.

Interesting and not doubting you. But back in the days I would attend about 15-20 launches a year, including Airfest, LDRS and NSL: I have not seen one. Granted I never watched every flight flown and none of mine never did.

I have seen drogues on a few rockets that made them come down quicker then Drogue less in the flat spin due to a straight up and down profile.