75mm Pros Vs. Cons of Aero-Tech vs. CTI

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FlyBy01

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The reason that I did not put this in the propulsion section is because I am only looking at level 2 and 3 high power motors. I am at a crossroads in that I cannot decide in if I would want to go with Aero-Tech or CTI cases. Both motors are about the same prices and I am looking to purchase the 75mm case kit. I order my motors mostly from Wildman so whether I go either way is kind of mute. Apologies for starting a glue like thread. The major ask is which company have you had the best experience with and why?
 
Things to consider:

- Review assembly process for both and pick what you like best
- Support a local vendor (N/A since you buy from Tim)
- How does the re-stock process work for Tim (If he can't get reloads for one as fast as the other, that could impact what you can get from Tim)
- Propellant types and options
 
Things to consider:

- Review assembly process for both and pick what you like best
- Support a local vendor (N/A since you buy from Tim)
- How does the re-stock process work for Tim (If he can't get reloads for one as fast as the other, that could impact what you can get from Tim)
- Propellant types and options
Assembly is very similar between both and our local vendor for this size of motor is usually a pre-order item (Tim is more reliable). This is a real hang-up because I really like both and feel like this is a "Ford or Chevy" question. I use Aero-Tech 54mm system which is similar to both the 75mm CTI and AT reloads.
 
Assembly is very similar between both and our local vendor for this size of motor is usually a pre-order item (Tim is more reliable). This is a real hang-up because I really like both and feel like this is a "Ford or Chevy" question. I use Aero-Tech 54mm system which is similar to both the 75mm CTI and AT reloads.
It really is kind of a Ford vs Chevy thing. I've found that once you start with one brand, it's easier to stick with the same brand. Either would work fine but if you use AT in 54mm and below, I'd suggest AT for 75mm too but in the end, it's just whatever your personal preference is.

(Loki is an option too but not from Tim. Loki in larger case sizes like 75mm is a good option if you want to get into EX in the future since it is the easiest for dual-purpose)
 
The standard CTI hardware will accept spacers, so if you buy a 5G motor and a couple of spacers you can run 3G-5G, both CTI and Aerotech loads. If you want to do the same things with Aerotech hardware, you have to buy the RAS system and a larger case... it ends up costing more. If you by the standard Aerotech hardware and want to run a smaller sized load, you get to buy different cases... that's really expensive in 75mm. If you go with Aerotech, get a bigger case and the RAS system. You may actually find that it's cheaper to buy the Aerotech pieces a la carte instead of buying a full motor then adding on the RAS; you're paying for a forward closure that you won't use.
 
With CTI 4 and 6x cases you can fly 2-6x loads. That is what I use.
I would not extrapolate a few known problems to the entire product line.
 
Honestly, I've never had a problem with any AT or CTI 75mm load that I've flown. YMMV...
 
Some of the A/T 75mm motors will run in CTI cases, and while I have no first-hand knowledge, I understand that some of the CTI reloads are certified for Aerotech cases.

When I bought 75mm cases, I went with CTI 6XL-grain and 4-grain cases, the closure hardware, and two spacers that would let me run any size CTI motor from 2 to 7 grains. (The 6XL is actually a full size grain). This ended up being less expensive than getting the A/T 5-grain starter kit and having to purchase the 6-grain case separately. And still not having a 7-grain option.

By going with CTI I could run 2 through 7 grain motors, for less money that going with A/T hardware and being able to run 1 through 6-grain motors (with two spacers for each system).

What I didn't know at the time was that not all A/T 75mm motors will work in the CTI cases. Specifically, some of the A/T nozzles won't work with the CTI rear closure. I think it might be their "Medusa" nozzles (someone check me on this if they know). I found this out when I showed at Black Rock with my CTI 7-grain case and bought the A/T M685 6-grain long-burn motor for a special project I had built (75mm minimum diameter carbon fiber missile that I wanted to sent to the moon :)) Got back to the table and realized that it wouldn't work, so I ended up buying 6-grain A/T motor hardware on-site. Because I was not going home empty handed. But I did go home empty wallet-ed.

At the end of the day -- no right or wrong answer. You have to look at what motors you want to fly, what brands your local vendors carry or you can buy on-site, what size rockets you'll be flying, etc. I'm am fortunate to be able to go to Black Rock once or twice a year, and when "the sky is the limit" (which it is out there) I wanted that 7 grain option, and that more than anything drove my selection of the CTI cases.
 
I would say it depends on how big you intend to go and how you predict the future will be for availability of reloads. Tim has had pretty good success in keeping the 75mm 4G and below CTI reloads in stock, but the 75mm 5G loads have been scarce and the 75mm 6G and 6Gxl loads have been pretty much non-existent. All the 98mm reloads have been as rare as hens' teeth. I think he only has a few 98mm loads in stock right now, and that is an improvement over a month ago.

Aerotech has been slow with stock as well, but all the Aerotech motors I have ordered have pretty much come in within 4-12 weeks, if it wasn't in stock. CTI, not so much.

I have to assume COVID had a huge impact on CTI and then inflation probably hit them again with another right-hook, but that doesn't help you if you can't get reloads. Hopefully the world returns to normal someday, but, for the moment, it is really difficult to get a lot of the larger CTI loads in the US.
 
I have all AT hardware in 75 & 98mm, but there hasn't been a CTI load that I haven't been able to use in the AT hardware yet. I don't want to afford the 6XL size yet... so that's moot for me. If I ever get a wild hair to fly an O, there's the DMS.
 
Since I have a serious love affair with Dark Matter motors, it would be an easy choice for me. I also prefer AT hardware, but own both. That nozzle ring on the CTI motors gave me grief when I started building 75mm CTI motors until I figured out how to assemble it correctly. Big AT motors go together easier in my opinion.
 
I forgot to add, but will make it it's own post for importance. Always use the AT forward seal disc on CTI loads in AT cases. My friend didn't and blistered the case. I've had to drop grain spacer o-rings in order to get the seal disc in. Every load worked fine without the spacers. Might have lost a couple of strawberry newtons, but the cases were fine and the motor made woosh/fire enough for optimal flight (rocket went up...). YMMV
 
Since I have a serious love affair with Dark Matter motors, it would be an easy choice for me. I also prefer AT hardware, but own both. That nozzle ring on the CTI motors gave me grief when I started building 75mm CTI motors until I figured out how to assemble it correctly. Big AT motors go together easier in my opinion.
Thank you, I am a sparky motor junkie as well. I guess I'm just a little kid a heart with an adult budget :)
 
I would contact Wildman and have a conversation about availability of reloads from each manufacturer. If you plan on flying large reloads the availability might be a consideration for you. I fly the heck out of AT 75mm motors of all sizes. I love the options. I have never felt the need to start with CTI. I’m brand loyal.
 
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The standard CTI hardware will accept spacers, so if you buy a 5G motor and a couple of spacers you can run 3G-5G, both CTI and Aerotech loads. If you want to do the same things with Aerotech hardware, you have to buy the RAS system and a larger case... it ends up costing more. If you by the standard Aerotech hardware and want to run a smaller sized load, you get to buy different cases... that's really expensive in 75mm. If you go with Aerotech, get a bigger case and the RAS system. You may actually find that it's cheaper to buy the Aerotech pieces a la carte instead of buying a full motor then adding on the RAS; you're paying for a forward closure that you won't use.
That is not correct. AeroTech has a similar spacer system that allows you to use smaller loads in larger cases from both manufacturers.
3AC6B3E7-7F81-487D-9A01-BC08C1C2036A.jpeg
 
That is not correct. AeroTech has a similar spacer system that allows you to use smaller loads in larger cases from both manufacturers.
View attachment 514504
Yes, I mentioned the RAS earlier. It was direct comparison between the two base motors... you have to add the RAS onto the Aerotech hardware, unless you buy it a la carte. It would be REALLY nice if AT sold a package with the RAS, case, rear closure, and seal disk; sadly, they do not, although you might be able to find a vendor has has as package like that.
 
Just to note that when using CTI reloads in AT hardware, you will need to use the seal disk when specified in AT assemble instructions.
 
Yes, I mentioned the RAS earlier. It was direct comparison between the two base motors... you have to add the RAS onto the Aerotech hardware, unless you buy it a la carte. It would be REALLY nice if AT sold a package with the RAS, case, rear closure, and seal disk; sadly, they do not, although you might be able to find a vendor has has as package like that.
Wildman sells packages like that. I've bought the 38 and 54mm versions.
 
Just to note that when using CTI reloads in AT hardware, you will need to use the seal disk when specified in AT assemble instructions.
But no seal disk with AT loads in CTI hardware? I had the exact same question as the OP when I was thinking about my future hardware investments.
 
Just to note that when using CTI reloads in AT hardware, you will need to use the seal disk when specified in AT assemble instructions.
But no seal disk with AT loads in CTI hardware? I had the exact same question as the OP when I was thinking about my future hardware investments.

See post 15. Already said that. As far as AT loads in CTI cases, I’d use the AT seal disc, as that was how they were designed to be used . Better to err on the side of caution. You can get the seal disc orings from McMaster Carr.
 
FWIW, I've never used the AT seal disk when using CTI reloads in 75mm AT hardware, because CTI doesn't say to in their instructions, it rarely fits well, and I'm reluctant to leave out grain O-rings or sand down the front face of a grain the way some do. I've gotten away with this so far, YMMV. The problems seem to occur when the CTI liner is unevenly cut and there is an obvious leakage path between the CTI forward insulator and the liner, more likely with the CTI hotter propellants like C-star, especially if the foremost grain spacer O-ring won't fit. If you end up with a damaged case in a crossload situation, there is likely going to be some finger-pointing regardless about who's going to replace the hardware and with what. Liner problems are what I have seen with 75mm CTI reloads and which has soured me on them recently. But again, YMMV.
 
I guess it would depend how TMT evaluated the AT Crossload system, which I don't know.
This evaluation occurred before Alan took the helm at TMT.
 
The CTI instructions are pretty clear about how to use CTI reloads in AT hardware and don't mention the AT seal disk. The recommendation to use it came from AT, but as far as I know AT isn't going to replace your hardware if it's damaged by a CTI reload whether you use it or not, nor would I expect them to.

I can only assume that TMT followed the CTI instructions. The AT advisory about the seal disk didn't happen until years after crossloading was certified.
 
AT has been very open about using their reloads in CTI hardware and their recommendations (which do include using the forward seal disc).

They provide a very helpful crossload matrix:
https://d11fdyfhxcs9cr.cloudfront.n...at crossload matrix 8-27-20_1641399489672.pdf
A video on how to use their reloads in CTI hardware:


And, in recent reloads I have gotten that are on their crossload matrix, they have included crossload instructions and the proper O-rings. Here are the instructions they included in an M1845 reload I recently bought:

PXL_20220416_192038774.jpg

PXL_20220416_192029974.jpg
 
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