65th Anniversary Estes Rocket

[Scott_650]

Probably not the best time to bring this up - we’re all at least a bit salty over Estes and their move to MAP - but they announced a 65th anniversary rocket on the company FB page this morning.

It doesn’t look like any past model to me, the body tube resembles the pre-finished pearl white tube from the last anniversary Alpha III, the decal is definitely an updated, redone version of the prior anniversary decal, obviously it looks like a two-staged rocket and the nose cone is either the PNC-50BB used on the Black Brant III, Skywriter and Crossfire ISX or the PNC-55BB from the #1958 Black Brant II - I’d lean towards the 50BB cone. The fins look a lot like the #2452 Athena’s fins. And it looks like the “booster” (if it is a two-stager) has a faux nozzle or screw on retainer. My guess? It’s a mashup of the anniversary Alpha pre-finished BT-50 body tube, the PNC-50BB cone, Athena-style fins with a new design BT-50 booster unit similar to the OOP BT-60/BT-55 E2X Boosters . Probably going be an E2X kit, roughly the size of the Crossfire plus the booster unit, 18mm powered, overall length around 18”. But that’s just a guess based on some quick clicking around so we’ll have to wait and see.
Attached Thumbnails

 

[Back_at_it]

Looks like it's based on the BT55 Black Brant nose cone. It's good looking rocket that will probably have a $50 price tag.

I lighten up the image a little

 

[James Duffy]

Estes has a 2" OD nose cone with that shape, right?

 

[mh9162013]

*yawns*

 

[smstachwick]

Looks like it's based on the BT55 Black Brant nose cone. It's good looking rocket that will probably have a $50 price tag.

I lighten up the image a little

View attachment 572622

I like the look of that!

If that’s a single-stager it looks like it’ll be on the draggy side. Maybe a good candidate for Q-Jet Ds?

 

[Scott_650]

Estes has a 2" OD nose cone with that shape, right?

I made my guess based on the size of the decal - it looks just like the Alpha anniversary decal - so just a guess since it could be printed any size. Using the bigger cone from the upcoming So Long would help justify creating a new mold. But that’s all predicated on the So Long being an actual 29mm minimum diameter - the So Long could be a BT-55 based kit using the PNC-55BB cone…

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

*yawns*

This. Combined with MAP, I am taking any Estes kits off the future build pile. Was getting back into LPR after getting my L2 and realizing I wanted more launches for the money. Instead just built a NewWay Oldway Nike Ajax and plan to order an Ollie Oop kit and another Radical Rocketry kit. Estes had me excited after their catalog this year, but all this stuff I wanted has yet to come out and this MAP garbage is the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Back_at_it]

Estes has a 2" OD nose cone with that shape, right?

Not that I'm aware of and Estes is phasing out their 2.0 PSII tubes and couplers so I doubt they are using the 2.0 tube.

 

[prfesser]

I made my guess based on the size of the decal - it looks just like the Alpha anniversary decal - so just a guess since it could be printed any size. Using the bigger cone from the upcoming So Long would help justify creating a new mold. But that’s all predicated on the So Long being an actual 29mm minimum diameter - the So Long could be a BT-55 based kit using the PNC-55BB cone…

Page 54 of the Estes catalog says that the o.d. of SoLong is 1.21", so it seems to be a genuine minimum diameter.

Whether it was or wasn't MD: how many of the So Longs will be flown twice? Maybe Estes should sell the upper-and booster-stage 29mm as a package of one booster and one upper stage...

 

[Scott_650]

Page 54 of the Estes catalog says that the o.d. of SoLong is 1.21", so it seems to be a genuine minimum diameter.

After all my stumbling around the internet trying to find a preexisting Estes rocket that looked like the announcement picture I failed to look at the So Long in the new catalog! D’oh!

 

[Scott_650]

Well, according to John Boren all my initial guesses are wrong - and he should know!

Back to clicking through the old catalogs for some kind of hint…

 

[gldknght]

This. Combined with MAP, I am taking any Estes kits off the future build pile. Was getting back into LPR after getting my L2 and realizing I wanted more launches for the money. Instead just built a NewWay Oldway Nike Ajax and plan to order an Ollie Oop kit and another Radical Rocketry kit. Estes had me excited after their catalog this year, but all this stuff I wanted has yet to come out and this MAP garbage is the final nail in the coffin.

Agreed. I will purchase the great goblin when it comes out, since I set aside the funds before this MAP pricing garbage was announced, but then I think I'm done with Estes for a while.

 

[SolarYellow]

To me, it looks like just another use of the PNC-50BB. That molding comes with a rear "exhaust" cone similar to the one in the computer-generated image. Maybe it's a two-stage, 18mm powered rocket. Could definitely get some altitude with C6-0/C6-7.

Heck, it would be kind of funny to scratch build and fly one like that before Estes actually reveals what it is.

 

[Cape Byron]

I like the look of that!

If that’s a single-stager it looks like it’ll be on the draggy side. Maybe a good candidate for Q-Jet Ds?

Estes will love you buying the kit but not their motors to fly it!

 

[smstachwick]

Estes will love you buying the kit but not their motors to fly it!

Oh I’ll probably be flying this on, at minimum, B4s and B6s out the wazoo. Maybe C6s if the ceiling permits it, or C5s if it’s heavy enough to only need 3 seconds.

But every now and then I’d like to really crank up the juice and still keep it low.

 

[gldknght]

Estes will love you buying the kit but not their motors to fly it!

I don't fly ANY of my 29mm Estes rockets on Estes motors. If Estes doesn't like that, I will lose exactly zero seconds of sleep over it. I think I've flown most of my Estes rockets on composite motors. They go from mild to wild that way. Surprisingly enough, I've never had one disintegrate yet.

 

[smstachwick]

Has anybody considered the possibility that this will be billed as the Alpha VII or something like that? Stuff like that has happened before, like when Vought built their XF8U-3 Crusader III prototype



Original F8U for comparison.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

I don't fly ANY of my 29mm Estes rockets on Estes motors. If Estes doesn't like that, I will lose exactly zero seconds of sleep over it. I think I've flown most of my Estes rockets on composite motors. They go from mild to wild that way. Surprisingly enough, I've never had one disintegrate yet.

Same here. I just kit bashed a big daddy with a 38 mm motor mount. Good thing I put GPS in the nosecone, because it sure was wild, and very quickly out of sight.

 

[Hobie1dog]

sitting on the fence

 

[bad_idea]

Continuing the (off-)topic of Estes rockets on non-Estes motors, Der Big Red Max is extremely marginal on the F15 IMO, and barely less so on the E16. I can't imaging flying it on Estes motors in stock form, though I did mod one and fly it on three C5s.

Great Goblin will be longer and should be heavier, and I've not run the numbers, but I'm guessing the Doorknob is pretty poky on Estes motors too. It's strange to me that Estes are still adding 29mm kits to their range that are no-brainers to fly on Quaerotech motors instead of Estes, all the more so when so far as we know, the high thrust E motor they've been working on for a few years and which could launch these larger rockets at safe velocities is actually 24mm, not 29.

(So Long using thick wall tubing and being, um, so long (sorry, but there's not another way to say it) isn't going to be very sprightly off the pad either, but that's a different story.)

Back on topic of this teaser, I wonder if it's really two stage or if it just has novelty fins.

 

[CoolRockets]

Has anybody considered the possibility that this will be billed as the Alpha VII or something like that? Stuff like that has happened before, like when Vought built their XF8U-3 Crusader III prototype

View attachment 572781

Original F8U for comparison.

View attachment 572782

If it’s an Alpha VII, well then, I have no idea what the MAP system is, but I’m either waiting for it on ACsupply or buying it on the spot

 

[Scott_650]

If it’s an Alpha VII, well then, I have no idea what the MAP system is, but I’m either waiting for it on ACsupply or buying it on the spot

You’ve obviously missed out on all the “fun” - Estes went to Minimum Advertised Pricing over the weekend with nearly all their distributors and retailers and set the MAP at list price. The immediate response from AC Supply, eRockets, etc was to change all their sales prices to list price - discounts gone for the moment. MAP agreements only cover advertised prices, vendors can still sell stuff for whatever they wish but as of this morning nobody has gone to discount coupons, “in cart” prices, or any other discounting on Estes items. Some online vendors haven’t changed anything and Hobby Lobby has a separate agreement with Estes so there’s still some discounted stuff out there.

If you’re interested in the whole gory mess here’s the prima thread
Thread 'Estes going to MAP = MSRP for all online sellers 4/1?'
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/estes-going-to-map-msrp-for-all-online-sellers-4-1.179120/

 

[kuririn]

It's called the Blue Sapphire and it's available now.
Limited edition of 300 kits.
https://estesrockets.com/product/blue-sapphire/

 

[smstachwick]

It's called the Blue Sapphire and it's available now.
Limited edition of 300 kits.
https://estesrockets.com/product/blue-sapphire/

You would not believe how quickly I hit “Add To Cart”

But now the cart won’t load

 

[Cape Byron]

Limited to 300. We'll never see them in Oz.

 

[smstachwick]

Limited to 300. We'll never see them in Oz.

If I wasn’t at a dry lake bed with slow data, trying to order through an already slow Estes website, I would offer to try to snag one for you.

PM me if you’d like me to try when I get home on Sunday or Monday.

 

[smstachwick]

I got one. Order received and hopefully arriving in Poway in the next week or so

 

[SolarYellow]

Looks like it’s basically a BBIII with a silly fin design that will make it perform much worse. As speculated previously. Already have a couple BBIIIs in the kit pile.

 

[Cape Byron]

PM me if you’d like me to try when I get home on Sunday or Monday.

Thanks for the offer. We’ll see what happens.

 

[BEC]

Got greedy and grabbed two — one to build, one to stash— as well as a bunch of A8-5s (which HL doesn't carry). That code mentioned in the MAP thread still worked, and got free shipping.

It's BT-50-based, so I expect the Crossfire/Black Brant parts are indeed the nose and tail of it. As usual it's showing an unrealistic peak altitude, though a C12-6 might take it to 1200 feet if the fins are thin.