cavecentral
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One could argue that the charge wells in a rocket are muzzle loading cannons. Just cannons that are inside the rocket and fired electronically.
I'm more than pretty sure. My question is then, "Why is this allowed to stand?" Potential felons who are not so only by luck should be demanding that NAR and Tripoli join forces to fix this instead of ignoring the issue. The allowance of a 1lb can of BP for use as a gas generator in a "safety device" (rocket recovery system) without the insane requirement for a magazine to store it and a LEUP is a no-brainer. Stop playing the odds because, eventually, someone's going to lose.
EDIT: with the NAR/Tripoli "APCP as explosive" lawsuit against the BATFE, there was a commercial constituency of APCP motor manufacturers behind it as well as a groundswell of HPR fliers who realized it would greatly harm the sport. Not so with the BP recovery issue where the amount of BP sold for that purpose is minuscule and, therefore, is of no interest to BP manufacturers. Fixing this one will rely entirely upon NAR and Triploi members demanding it.
One could argue that the charge wells in a rocket are muzzle loading cannons. Just cannons that are inside the rocket and fired electronically.
I'm more than pretty sure. My question is then, "Why is this allowed to stand?" Potential felons who are not so only by luck should be demanding that NAR and Tripoli join forces to fix this instead of ignoring the issue. The allowance of a 1lb can of BP for use as a gas generator in a "safety device" (rocket recovery system) without the insane requirement for a magazine to store it and a LEUP is a no-brainer. Stop playing the odds because, eventually, someone's going to lose.
EDIT: with the NAR/Tripoli "APCP as explosive" lawsuit against the BATFE, there was a commercial constituency of APCP motor manufacturers behind it as well as a groundswell of HPR fliers who realized it would greatly harm the sport. Not so with the BP recovery issue where the amount of BP sold for that purpose is minuscule and, therefore, is of no interest to BP manufacturers. Fixing this one will rely entirely upon NAR and Triploi members demanding it.
Going to court against the BATFE is useless. You're just wasting money. You'd be better off giving "election donations" to the right people and having them change it. That's the reason it is the way it is now......the NRA gave the money to the right people to make it happen. It's corruption any way you look at it, and that seems to be the american way.
I don't know much about firearms so I opted to just tell the shop what I needed it for ( they asked) and I offered to show them my NAR card. They somewhat impolitely told me they wouldn't sell it to me. Apprently, since they didn't see a bunch of future sales coming from me on shooting supplies they can be choosey on who to sell it to.
The NRA (of which I am a Lifetime Member) is primarily a Civil Rights lobbying organization with the Civil Right being the Second amendment. Unfortunately, there is no such Constitutional protection for hobby rocketry. Taking black powder away from muzzleloading firearms constitutes an infringment upon this Right. Keeping the wolves at bay is not corruption. It's Citizen Activism at work and protected by the First amendment.
I need to cut them a check.
Ematches are also regulated items. Calling them 'ejection starters' does not change the regs.
Since I've been involved in fireworking, I've learned to make BP. It's ridiculous to pay $25/can + hazmat for crap quality powder. If I have $1 tied up in a pound I'd be surprised. Still illegal to transport without a license, though. If you made it on site it would be legal to use in a rocket...
Kevin O
Have any rockteers ever been arrested, fined, warned, or otherwise hassled by any agency for having or using black powder?
Which is why I mentioned earlier in this thread that a miniature civil war mortar barrel as ejection charge carrier would serve as an "antique firearm", but then I also pointed out that cannon aren't even specifically mentioned in the poorly written law defining "antique firearms" and are instead relying solely upon the definition of what an antique firearm isn't.One could argue that the charge wells in a rocket are muzzle loading cannons. Just cannons that are inside the rocket and fired electronically.
Don't know and doesn't matter. Eventually, the wrong set of circumstances may lead to it. Then, you're either a felon or bankrupted to prevent yourself from becoming one, assuming that's even possible and I don't think it is because a rocket is in no way an "antique firearm."Have any rockteers ever been arrested, fined, warned, or otherwise hassled by any agency for having or using black powder?
If you rent your abode, especially if it's a multiple occupancy structure like an apartment, good luck with that magazine.BP included in reloads is regulated as part of the reload, just as BP in motors and motor ejection charges is.
For electronic ejection, you can be provably legal using 4F BP by getting a LEUP and a magazine. Many of us have gone that route.
The difference between the APCP case, over which we sued and won, and the BP case, is that BP regulation and the firearm exceptions are written into the statute, whereas APCP was not.
It worked with the successful NAR/Tripoli lawsuit against the ridiculous "APCP as explosive" characterization by the BATFE. However, the BP in antique firearms exemption is a statute, so I don't think the BATFE would be the primary target of any effort to get it changed.Going to court against the BATFE is useless. You're just wasting money.
Which is why I've made comments here multiple times that people need to join hobby-related organizations like the NAR or Tripoli if they don't want their sport regulated to nothing! The "no added value" excuse for not joining either of those organizations is destroyed by the fact that there is only power in numbers and organization. If it weren't for that NAR/Triploi lawsuit against the BATFE, we'd be in sad shape right now. If it weren't for the AMA, I suspect the RC aircraft sport would be much more regulated to a ridiculous extent than it is now.You'd be better off giving "election donations" to the right people and having them change it. That's the reason it is the way it is now......the NRA gave the money to the right people to make it happen. It's corruption any way you look at it, and that seems to be the american way.
I wonder if all of this is a moot point, given what I found regarding pyrodex in place of true BP: https://www.pratthobbies.com/info_pages/pyrodex/pyrotest.htm
According to these guys, smokeless will work if it's given additional containment. Although I haven't personally tried, I hope to get to Sportsman's warehouse this weekend after the Desert Heat launch to pick up some Pyrodex P (finest "grind") and give it a whirl with some ground tests! Will let you know how it goes!
BATFE recently clarified that Pyrodex and other BP substitutes are treated as explosives, just the same as BP. See the opening summary of their 2013 list of explosives.
It worked with the successful NAR/Tripoli lawsuit against the ridiculous "APCP as explosive" characterization by the BATFE. However, the BP in antique firearms exemption is a statute, so I don't think the BATFE would be the primary target of any effort to get it changed.
Which is why I've made comments here multiple times that people need to join hobby-related organizations like the NAR or Tripoli if they don't want their sport regulated to nothing! The "no added value" excuse for not joining either of those organizations is destroyed by the fact that there is only power in numbers and organization. If it weren't for that NAR/Triploi lawsuit against the BATFE, we'd be in sad shape right now. If it weren't for the AMA, I suspect the RC aircraft sport would be much more regulated to a ridiculous extent than it is now.
In a police state, the "law" is whatever the policeman thinks it is. When the policemen can pull off a caper like "Fast & Furious" and make a clean getaway, no activity no matter how harmless is safe. If you need a contemporaneous example of the hypocrisy involved, try this: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow...career-20140327,0,4920941.story#axzz2xBVs4SA4
Nice scheme. Disarm the law abiding citizens while arming the gangsters. Makes perfect sense. :rant:
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