10mm Makerbeam - for micro rail buttons

[o1d_dude]

Put on my micro rail buttons for 1st time tonight - didn't go as well as planned. They went in just fine, but i realized shortly after starting, that the screws I'd thought were metal, are actually nylon. I started carefully "threading" them into the hole I'd drilled, and noticed the head would twist. At first thought was "I'm about to snap it off in the BT". I ended up having to upsize the holes to a 5/64", and even then they were a real tight fit to get in.

Forget about un-screwing them. They wouldn't. I had to grasp them with thumb and finger, and pull them out with some force. There's no way those nylon threads will self-tap anything fiberglass.

I seem to recall Ian using CA glue on the rail button screws in the Micro Mamba video.

 

[tOD]

Put on my micro rail buttons for 1st time tonight - didn't go as well as planned. They went in just fine, but i realized shortly after starting, that the screws I'd thought were metal, are actually nylon. I started carefully "threading" them into the hole I'd drilled, and noticed the head would twist. At first thought was "I'm about to snap it off in the BT". I ended up having to upsize the holes to a 5/64", and even then they were a real tight fit to get in.

Forget about un-screwing them. They wouldn't. I had to grasp them with thumb and finger, and pull them out with some force. There's no way those nylon threads will self-tap anything fiberglass.

I just did a quick measurement to compare the micro rail button screws with some 2-56 nylon screws I use for shear pins and they appear to be the same size (+/- 0.001). I need to mount then on my Alien Interceptor so I'll drill and tap the fiberglass for 2-56.

 

[cwbullet]

I bought them here:

1. 15 mm rails
2. 10 mm rails

I love these things for small to mid-power rockets.

 

[CalebJ]

I picked up a 6 foot 20mm rail here last week:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TJK9ZH8Came in reasonably well packed and dead straight.

 

[o1d_dude]

I tried the 3/16” Evergreen plastic “H-Beam” in my MakerBeam today as a conformal launch lug.

It worked quite well.

My only fear is that it may be too delicate for long term use.

 

[rocketguy101]

Mine are black as well. I found you could slightly drill out the threaded central hole and press fit in a short length of 1/8 inch launch rod (I used a short piece of an Estes two-piece rod) and then you can put one on most pads that support a regular 1/8 inch rod - even a Porta-Pad. But I found the buttons bound pretty readily unless the rocket was straight downwind.

Has railbuttons.com revised the micro buttons so that they don't bind as much?

I found the buttons would bind as well. I used a file that fit in the rail slot and made a couple passes with it to open the throat up and the binding stopped.

 

[rocketguy101]

Amazon still carries them search for 10mm Makerbeam, they are $29 for a two pack of 1500mm rails. The ones I saw were clear anodized, the ones I own are black anodized.

I am glad they have longer rails available now! The 900 mm just seemed a little too short. I had a friend build me a joiner to put two rails together. I haven't tested it with a flight, but a rocket slides smoothly along the rail.

 

[rharshberger]

I just did a quick measurement to compare the micro rail button screws with some 2-56 nylon screws I use for shear pins and they appear to be the same size (+/- 0.001). I need to mount then on my Alien Interceptor so I'll drill and tap the fiberglass for 2-56.

I have some #2-56 round head nylon machine screws I use for shear pins as well and when I stuck one in a short section of 10mm rail I could rock it sideways and slide it out of the rail, however the regular flat head #2-56 machine screws (conical under the driver slot instead of flat like the round heads) would not rock sideways out of the slot. Keeping the #2-56 round head screws as close to the airframe as possible and still allowing the rocket to slide on the rail should keep the round head screws from coming out of the rails slot.

 

[BEC]

900mm is pretty durn close to the length of a regular 1/8 inch launch rod—less than 3/4 of an inch shorter.

That said, it's cool that 1.5m versions that Rich mentioned are available (link in Chuck Haislip's post #33 above). When I get my Evergreen H beam strips in (due Monday) and then see how that works, I'll think about how the 10mm MakerBeam might be a good improvement for applications that would normally use a 3/16 inch by 4 foot rod....

How many 10mm rails will be available at June Swoosh (assuming it can happen), Rich?

 

[rocketguy101]

I'll think about how the 10mm MakerBeam might be a good improvement for applications that would normally use a 3/16 inch by 4 foot rod....

That's what I was going after with the joined rails...

 

[rharshberger]

900mm is pretty durn close to the length of a regular 1/8 inch launch rod—less than 3/4 of an inch shorter.

That said, it's cool that 1.5m versions that Rich mentioned are available (link in Chuck Haislip's post #33 above). When I get my Evergreen H beam strips in (due Monday) and then see how that works, I'll think about how the 10mm MakerBeam might be a good improvement for applications that would normally use a 3/16 inch by 4 foot rod....

How many 10mm rails will be available at June Swoosh (assuming it can happen), Rich?

Mine is always at the launches, so at least (usually one), My setup has a Micro and Mini rail on same pad.

 

[cwbullet]

Mine is always at the launches, so at least (usually one), My setup has a Micro and Mini rail on same pad.

I just made a pad with 10, 15, and 20mm rails on the same pad.

 

[rharshberger]

I just made a pad with 10, 15, and 20mm rails on the same pad.

Once I acquire a 1010 rail mine will have Micro, Mini and 1010.

 

[cwbullet]

Once I acquire a 1010 rail mine will have Micro, Mini and 1010.

I may try 1010 with it.

 

[tOD]

I have a 6ft. 20mm rail with a 1ft. piece of stainless rod attached that fits my clubs high power pad. I ordered the 1500x 10mm Maker beam two pack from Amazon. I was thinking of getting a Rockwell Jawstand to make a pad that would accept each of these. Has anyone put together a setup like that?

 

[cwbullet]

I have an idea for a mount that will take all rods and rails that I know about. I just need a machinist and welder to make a few.

 

[tOD]

I have a 6ft. 20mm rail with a 1ft. piece of stainless rod attached that fits my clubs high power pad. I ordered the 1500x 10mm Maker beam two pack from Amazon. I was thinking of getting a Rockwell Jawstand to make a pad that would accept each of these. Has anyone put together a setup like that?

 

[CalebJ]

It's something I've been meaning to figure out actually. Have a jaw stand and 20mm just like you. Would love to rig it to to hold either 20mm or 1010 and have a drill chuck next to it to swap any rod size in quickly. That way I could go to the giant park in town and launch anything G or below and take it to club launches for the bigger stuff.

 

[tOD]

It's something I've been meaning to figure out actually. Have a jaw stand and 20mm just like you. Would love to rig it to to hold either 20mm or 1010 and have a drill chuck next to it to swap any rod size in quickly. That way I could go to the giant park in town and launch anything G or below and take it to club launches for the bigger stuff.

I should just get the Jawstand and go from there. I just don't want to get into any kind of complicated machining to get it to work. I don't have access to anything but basic hand tools.

 

[DaHabes]

I have a 6ft. 20mm rail with a 1ft. piece of stainless rod attached that fits my clubs high power pad. I ordered the 1500x 10mm Maker beam two pack from Amazon. I was thinking of getting a Rockwell Jawstand to make a pad that would accept each of these. Has anyone put together a setup like that?

Here's my Jawstand. I made it convertible from 4 rods to a single rail. It takes about 1 minute to switch configurations. The rod pads are an extension that is added to the base. I could envision a different extension that would allow for three rails instead of one. Very doable.

For the rails, I have 1 6' section and 2 4' sections that can be combined, so I can do 6', 8', 10', and 14'. Can handle low and slow launches easily. I have plans for building a wider triangular base so it can better handle bigger L2 birds.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Thought as much. Depends on the orientation...one way an “H” and the other way an “I”.

Good tip though on replacing the micro buttons with it.

Thanks.

I don't know if Evergreen does it or not, but there is a difference between "H" beams and "I" beams in structural steel. H beams are generally heavier and have uniform flange and web thickness and squared ends on the flanges. I see them used a lot for pilings and vertical structural supports in powerhouses and the like. "I" beams (W & S) have a wider variety of thickness, flange widths, and so on; usually the web is thinner than the flanges and particularly for S shapes the flanges are tapered. For what it's worth, don't mean to be a pedantic - but "H" or "I" is more than just the principle bending direction when it comes to steel shapes. Now I'm curious, when the hobby shop re-opens I'll check out the Evergreen stand. I like the idea of using them for rail guides, if I ever progress to using rails.

AISC Structural Steel Dimensioning tool

 

[kalsow]

Evergreen and Plastruct carry a variety of sizes of H and I beams. Their websites even includes dimensions. Imagine that!

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/https://plastruct.com/
Here's some of the info from Evergreen:

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Thanks! Of course it would be on their website - I just like going to my local hooby shop. It's interesting that in both cases their flange thicknesses are less than their web thicknesses.

 

[tOD]

Here's my Jawstand. I made it convertible from 4 rods to a single rail. It takes about 1 minute to switch configurations. The rod pads are an extension that is added to the base. I could envision a different extension that would allow for three rails instead of one. Very doable.

For the rails, I have 1 6' section and 2 4' sections that can be combined, so I can do 6', 8', 10', and 14'. Can handle low and slow launches easily. I have plans for building a wider triangular base so it can better handle bigger L2 birds.
View attachment 415966View attachment 415967View attachment 415968View attachment 415969

Nice! That's sort of what I had in mind. I don't need the rods though, I only launch at the club launches and they have a full set. They're slow to adopt the rails, so it would be nice to have a pad I could hook up to their controller.

 

[cwbullet]

Evergreen and Plastruct carry a variety of sizes of H and I beams. Their websites even includes dimensions. Imagine that!

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/https://plastruct.com/
Here's some of the info from Evergreen:
View attachment 416001

View attachment 416002

I am one of the first to use these with micro and mini rails. They work very well, but often require a little sanding.

 

[BEC]

Got my H-beams from Horizon Hobby via Amazon just now. Talk about over packaging!

Will see how they work in the Makerbeam later....

 

[o1d_dude]

Got my H-beams from Horizon Hobby via Amazon just now. Talk about over packaging!

Will see how they work in the Makerbeam later....

View attachment 416186View attachment 416187

That's pretty much how mine arrived as well.

Better like that than in pieces.

FWIW, the Evergreen H-beams I received fit very well in the MakerBeam 10x10mm rail slot.

 

[BEC]

Well I've just glued to ~3/4 long sections of #286 H beam to my current Nova Payloader. I'll see how it works the next time I go fly. This model has 46 flights on it so far, all of them with at least one altimeter aboard, so I have a pretty good baseline from which to observe performance differences. Flight have been on everything from an A8-3 to a D16-6, though most have been on Bs and Cs.

I'll have to do a couple off a rod just to see if the rail guides themselves make a significant difference before I fly from the Makerbeam rail.



Since it was nearby, I grabbed the model I initially flew the micro buttons on and tried them both in the rail. The H-beams slide more easily but they both bind if things get off axis, though it has to be a little further off with the H-beams. It will be interesting to see this in action on the field.

(The older model was retired after 75 flights. If you look closely you can see the paint bubbled up at the top of the motor mount/LE of the fins. That's what putting an Aerotech D10 in this model does to it. It got really soft there so I decided to retire it some time ago.)

 

[cwbullet]

Well I've just glued to ~3/4 long sections of #286 H beam to my current Nova Payloader. I'll see how it works the next time I go fly. This model has 46 flights on it so far, all of them with at least one altimeter aboard, so I have a pretty good baseline from which to observe performance differences. Flight have been on everything from an A8-3 to a D16-6, though most have been on Bs and Cs.

I'll have to do a couple off a rod just to see if the rail guides themselves make a significant difference before I fly from the Makerbeam rail.

View attachment 416649

Since it was nearby, I grabbed the model I initially flew the micro buttons on and tried them both in the rail. The H-beams slide more easily but they both bind if things get off axis, though it has to be a little further off with the H-beams. It will be interesting to see this in action on the field.

(The older model was retired after 75 flights. If you look closely you can see the paint bubbled up at the top of the motor mount/LE of the fins. That's what putting an Aerotech D10 in this model does to it. It got really soft there so I decided to retire it some time ago.)

View attachment 416650

That is 100% how I did it except I only added a single piece.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

I'd be tempted to taper the leading and trailing edges of the flanges - I suspect y'all do, and I can't see in in the pics.