1 Mile Payload to 1 mile(+-100ft)

[cls]

As Antares said above, and SolarYellow said earlier, don't go down a rat hole of being unconventional just because.

Here's a perfect example of that

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/actively-controlled-rocket-not-flying-straight.181787/

Read the entire thread. Supposed to be a TARC rocket. Has not achieved that goal.

 

[rocket1student]

As an engineer currently working in the space launch industry, "out of the box" solutions are overrated. They are called for only when you have a truly unique, never-before-seen mission requirement, such as when Elon Musk tasked SpaceX with making a recoverable and reusable first stage.

Prioritize your mission requirements and fulfill them to the best of your ability. Don't worry about making some fancy thing in an attempt to impress your audience. Doing so increases your risk of the project failing completely, and even if whatever gizmo you try to make works, a real engineer is more likely to look at it and say, "Why did you spend all this time on something that wasnt a requirement instead of just using this simpler solution that already existed?"

An example of an out of the box idea that I am looking to achieve is something like a group from my high school created a few years back: A fully clear body tube was used to display a one pound payload of LED lights. The rocket was launched with the sun down and was a cool project that in fact did earn some of the students several scholarships. Unique does not mean unnecessary or overrated, sometimes there is more than one solution to a problem.

 

[kramer714]

let me help you out a bit more...

Without experience building and flying something like this, built to a budget, and a schedule, and with a team (good and bad there), that is competing with other events, activities, and interest., and where a 'mistake' can likely reduce you project to road kill, not to mention the issue of weather affecting your schedule.....

So here is how you succeed. Under Promise, and Over Deliver... early.

Someone on the team needs to be the program manager, needs to create a realistic schedule, that has failure(s) built in, a detailed bill of materials (including tools like specific sized drill bits) and needs to have a test plan. Fail to do this and you will not be successful. Everything is going to take twice as long as you think, tests are going to fail, and you will have at least one rocket recovered with a shovel. i have told teams I have mentored, buy for 3, build at least two, hope you have 1 by the last flight.

I had a 'high school team' I mentored, I told them that I would only do it if they had a schedule (in writing with tasks and activities and estimated hours for each task) , a test plan (doesn't need to be hard but needs to be done, ahead of time, correctly) , and written plans for the build (think - write- plan... then do).

Aggressive, out of the box, is going to be very difficult to while Under Promise, and Over Deliver... early.

Good Luck.....

 

[rocket1student]

let me help you out a bit more...

Without experience building and flying something like this, built to a budget, and a schedule, and with a team (good and bad there), that is competing with other events, activities, and interest., and where a 'mistake' can likely reduce you project to road kill, not to mention the issue of weather affecting your schedule.....

So here is how you succeed. Under Promise, and Over Deliver... early.

Someone on the team needs to be the program manager, needs to create a realistic schedule, that has failure(s) built in, a detailed bill of materials (including tools like specific sized drill bits) and needs to have a test plan. Fail to do this and you will not be successful. Everything is going to take twice as long as you think, tests are going to fail, and you will have at least one rocket recovered with a shovel. i have told teams I have mentored, buy for 3, build at least two, hope you have 1 by the last flight.

I had a 'high school team' I mentored, I told them that I would only do it if they had a schedule (in writing with tasks and activities and estimated hours for each task) , a test plan (doesn't need to be hard but needs to be done, ahead of time, correctly) , and written plans for the build (think - write- plan... then do).

Aggressive, out of the box, is going to be very difficult to while Under Promise, and Over Deliver... early.

Good Luck.....

This completely lines up with what our mentor has taught/is teaching us. I’ve been selected as my group “manager” and have plans to create a schedule this week. Thanks

 

[cerving]

You need to split this up into steps...

1) Fly and recover a larger rocket, similar in size to the one that's going to carry your payload, to at least 3000', preferably 5000', using motor deploy. It's going to take an "H" motor, at least, probably an "I".

2) Fly any rocket with dual-deploy, again at least 3000'. That will probably require an "I" motor.

3) Once you have attained those steps, combine the two steps and add your payload. It will probably require a "J" motor at least.

This is a high-power rocket, which means that the flyer of record is going to have to be 18 or older, ditto for being able to handle black powder for the deployment charges. They will also have to be NAR or Tripoli HPR certified, AND it's going to have to be launched either at a sanctioned HPR launch or one of the very few places that has an experimental rocketry permit (i.e. Friends of Amateur Rocketry in SoCal). Either way it's going to require an FAA permit since it's a Class 2 rocket.

 

[MarsLander]

Building on what @cerving said:

Greatest read of a generation:

Link--> What made Apollo a success?


Each Apollo mission was an incremental, but significant step toward the ultimate goal:



Some Great Principles to Follow:

 

[FredA]

This is a high-power rocket, which means that the flyer of record is going to have to be 18 or older, ditto for being able to handle black powder for the deployment charges. They will also have to be NAR or Tripoli HPR certified, AND it's going to have to be launched either at a sanctioned HPR launch or one of the very few places that has an experimental rocketry permit (i.e. Friends of Amateur Rocketry in SoCal). Either way it's going to require an FAA permit since it's a Class 2 rocket.

Not to hijack this thread, but most of this is incorrect.
You can launch anything you want with landowner and FAA permission.
And the FAA waiver is not necessary as it IS possible to go over 1 mile with a FAR 101 rocket.
Sourcing the motors is technically the hard part, but we've seen tons of evidence that [some] vendors will take a sale from almost anyone with money in hand.
If you can't stay within FAR101 rules, then leveraging a TRA/NAR launch to access their waiver is the way to go.....but again, not required as one can obtain their own COA but I think you need to be 18 or have somebody of age do the filing.

So yes, having a L1/L2 flier of record at a sanctioned launch is the easy way, but not the only way.
Flying with NAR/TRA will get you insurance too. Again, not necessary but highly recommended.

 

[OzHybrid]

As an engineer currently working in the space launch industry, "out of the box" solutions are overrated. They are called for only when you have a truly unique, never-before-seen mission requirement, such as when Elon Musk tasked SpaceX with making a recoverable and reusable first stage.

Prioritize your mission requirements and fulfill them to the best of your ability. Don't worry about making some fancy thing in an attempt to impress your audience. Doing so increases your risk of the project failing completely, and even if whatever gizmo you try to make works, a real engineer is more likely to look at it and say, "Why did you spend all this time on something that wasnt a requirement instead of just using this simpler solution that already existed?"

Outside the box. Out of the box, IS an existing item/ solution.

 

[cerving]

Not to hijack this thread, but most of this is incorrect.
You can launch anything you want with landowner and FAA permission.
And the FAA waiver is not necessary as it IS possible to go over 1 mile with a FAR 101 rocket.
Sourcing the motors is technically the hard part, but we've seen tons of evidence that [some] vendors will take a sale from almost anyone with money in hand.
If you can't stay within FAR101 rules, then leveraging a TRA/NAR launch to access their waiver is the way to go.....but again, not required as one can obtain their own COA but I think you need to be 18 or have somebody of age do the filing.

So yes, having a L1/L2 flier of record at a sanctioned launch is the easy way, but not the only way.
Flying with NAR/TRA will get you insurance too. Again, not necessary but highly recommended.

You're very unlikely to get FAA permission on your own unless you live out in the toolies. There are probably parts of Texas where they "might" be able to get permission... but nowhere near the populated areas.

Yes, you can get over a mile with a Class 1 rocket, but it ain't easy. Certainly not gonna happen carrying a 1# payload...

My point is that they need to work up to this, and they're not going anywhere if they can't find somewhere to fly. Why would they NOT want to go "the easy way" and launch at a sanctioned NAR/TRA launch? Other than "We wanna do it OUR way", I can't think of a good reason (and I'm no so sure that's a very good reason, either). BTW, most college programs (such as Spaceport America Cup) require the mentor to have NAR or TRA HPR certifications, and be the flyer of record so the liability insurance is in effect. No way the schools are going to open themselves up to potential liability if something should go South.

 

[FredA]

@cerving - agree, just make sure we tell the truth/reality about the rules.
The "easy way" is NOT the only way.

Those college contests are scary - did it for a while - decided I didn't want MY NAME on the line when crap goes wrong.
Too many students with little to no experience building and launching rockets far beyond their knowledge level.
The contest abuses TRA/NAR L3's so they take the risk....and the org's insurance are basically covering non-members.
Hard Pass

 

[cerving]

@cerving - agree, just make sure we tell the truth/reality about the rules.
The "easy way" is NOT the only way.

Yup, fair enough.

 

[SolarYellow]

@cerving - agree, just make sure we tell the truth/reality about the rules.
The "easy way" is NOT the only way.

Those college contests are scary - did it for a while - decided I didn't want MY NAME on the line when crap goes wrong.
Too many students with little to no experience building and launching rockets far beyond their knowledge level.
The contest abuses TRA/NAR L3's so they take the risk....and the org's insurance are basically covering non-members.
Hard Pass

Agreed, I've seen college students doing some seriously scary crap at a launch.

 

[rfjustin]

Agreed, I've seen college students doing some seriously scary crap at a launch.

Before or after they say "you don't understand, the sim says it'll be fine!"?

 

[SolarYellow]

Before or after they say "you don't understand, the sim says it'll be fine!"?

No sim involved. Just ground testing a motor.