1/50 scale Saturn 1b

[MartinVrstal]

I haven't posted much on here for a while in the way of a build thread but wanted to share this one. Back in 2009 I went to my first ever NAR meet. The NSL was hosted by the WOOSH guys at Bong. I entered the High Power Upscale Competition with a scratch 4" Jayhawk and won first place. Top prize that day was a voucher for one of Sheri's kits. I had contacted Sheri with my choice and she said a few weeks. Sheri Disappeared. Dave at Red Arrow purchased Sheri's rockets and when I contacted him, he said he didn't know who she had shorted and wasn't liable. So...what are my options?

Ever since I re-bar-ed back in 99 I always liked the looks of Jeff Brundt's 1/50th scale 1b. While talking to the wife a couple of weeks back, I mentioned I'd really like to build a new rocket. She said that we were a little ahead so go ahead and order some parts....well thats all it took(I had all ready figured what I needed). An order to LOC and to Uncle Mikes took place the next day.

The mock up mirrors Brundt's build with a change here and there. Mainly I didn't want to split any body tubes lengthwise. It has a central 54mm tube surrounded by BT-56 tubes. The aft body tube is a 5.38 Loc tube coupler with an outside dia of 5.372. 2-54x5.38 cr's with Loc 5.38 stiffy tubes sandwiched between the cr's. The second stage body tube consists of 1 1/2 Loc 5.38 stiffy tubes at 5.240 OD. The Lem/sm is Loc 3" tube with a K-29 capsule on top. I'm working on the fins and scalloped tank shroud and trying to figure things out. I'll probably adapt down to a 38mm mmt.

Here's a shot of it dry fitted for now next to a clone K-29 for comparison.

 

[luke strawwalker]

Very nice...

Yeah, the SHR thing was a HUGE mess... spilled all over here on the forums (TRF, YORF, RP). Basically she got some folks money and they never saw anything for it, AFAIK. Be glad you're just out a door prize. Red Arrow bought out the SHR line, and has been extensively reworking them for a couple years now. First thing I'd have torpedoed out the nearest airlock was the SHR brand name-- it was pretty well in the toilet by that point, and the argument has been made by some in the past (and not looking to rehash it here, just posting the history of this mess) that by 'buying out' SHR that RAH COULD be construed as taking on the liabilities from SHR... IOW that folks owed kits or refunds could put the pinch on RAH. Seems Red Arrow Hobbies isn't going to make any of that good (not that I blame them!), so basically you're "freebie" is vaporware, just like the folks that paid for kits and got nothing. Personally if *I* were in RAH's shoes, I would have ditched the SHR name and "lineup" and simply put the word out in the hobby community that Red Arrow purchased the rights to mfg. the SHR kits and some of the molds and parts and would be revamping them and soon offering them under the RAH name. After all, I saw the molds he got from Sheri and they were crap-- he was having to have them TOTALLY redone, because the capsule details were SHOT-- worn completely off on one side, etc. I was also told when I visited RAH a year or two ago that the kits were ALL having to be reworked like that, and that the metal nozzles were going to be a HUGE problem-- Sheri had been getting them from a machinist buddy of her ex at cost, apparently, and when her and her ex went "splitsville" that her ex's buddy quit making the metal nozzles-- which is probably why she wasn't shipping kits. Red Arrow had been checking around and the nozzles were going to cost more than the entire kit retail to have manufactured from aluminum from nearby machinists... so that was clearly a non-starter.... that's where the situation stood about a year or so ago-- dunno what's happened since. Haven't seen or heard anybody talking about NEW RAH/SHR kits being available, so I don't know if ANYTHING has happened in the intervening time...

Good luck with your build! Looks great! OL JR

 

[MartinVrstal]

I started the glue up process yesterday. The tail section is made up from a series of rings and stiffy spacers.
The first spacer is glued into the bottom. Then the ring was glued onto the 54mm tube.

 

[MartinVrstal]

Then another stiffy spacer and the next ring. The ring pattern was made at Payload bay tool section. I used a circle cutter to cut out the tube spacing. Then finally the top stiffy spacer/tank shroud support.

 

[MartinVrstal]

I didn't have any really thin ply so I used a double layer of cardboard cut from a cheese cracker box to make a tube spacer/shroud support. Today I'll work on the tank shroud....wish me luck.

 

[MartinVrstal]

I've been working on this all morning. Actually the last few days...trying to get my patterns all figured out. I drew out one half...doubled it and made the other side. Then I cut out 8, glued them down to another sheet of cardboard to double the thickness and re-cut. I ca'ed them all down and think it will work. Now to do a little sanding for a better fit.

 

[MartinVrstal]

Last night I took my paper shroud pattern and traced it out on fiberglass cloth. Cut them out slightly over sized and glassed the tank shroud. I also made very small fillets to reinforce the inside cardboard supports. This morning I got it all sanded down. It looks pretty good...I'll have to fill in here and there.

 

[RocketManDan]

Very nice...

Yeah, the SHR thing was a HUGE mess... spilled all over here on the forums (TRF, YORF, RP). Basically she got some folks money and they never saw anything for it, AFAIK. Be glad you're just out a door prize. Red Arrow bought out the SHR line, and has been extensively reworking them for a couple years now. First thing I'd have torpedoed out the nearest airlock was the SHR brand name-- it was pretty well in the toilet by that point, and the argument has been made by some in the past (and not looking to rehash it here, just posting the history of this mess) that by 'buying out' SHR that RAH COULD be construed as taking on the liabilities from SHR... IOW that folks owed kits or refunds could put the pinch on RAH. Seems Red Arrow Hobbies isn't going to make any of that good (not that I blame them!), so basically you're "freebie" is vaporware, just like the folks that paid for kits and got nothing. Personally if *I* were in RAH's shoes, I would have ditched the SHR name and "lineup" and simply put the word out in the hobby community that Red Arrow purchased the rights to mfg. the SHR kits and some of the molds and parts and would be revamping them and soon offering them under the RAH name. After all, I saw the molds he got from Sheri and they were crap-- he was having to have them TOTALLY redone, because the capsule details were SHOT-- worn completely off on one side, etc. I was also told when I visited RAH a year or two ago that the kits were ALL having to be reworked like that, and that the metal nozzles were going to be a HUGE problem-- Sheri had been getting them from a machinist buddy of her ex at cost, apparently, and when her and her ex went "splitsville" that her ex's buddy quit making the metal nozzles-- which is probably why she wasn't shipping kits. Red Arrow had been checking around and the nozzles were going to cost more than the entire kit retail to have manufactured from aluminum from nearby machinists... so that was clearly a non-starter.... that's where the situation stood about a year or so ago-- dunno what's happened since. Haven't seen or heard anybody talking about NEW RAH/SHR kits being available, so I don't know if ANYTHING has happened in the intervening time...

Good luck with your build! Looks great! OL JR

Someone needs to bend her over and paddle her fanny!

 

[MartinVrstal]

I've been working on the fins for the past few days. They are made up of laminated 1/8 balsa...now 3/8 thick and glassed with either 4 or 6 oz cloth and west systems epoxy. Do you guys think they will work or should I go plywood or built up and skinned with .040 styrene? What a P.I.T.A. these have been. But they look good.

 

[cdondanville]

I've been working on this all morning. Actually the last few days...trying to get my patterns all figured out. I drew out one half...doubled it and made the other side. Then I cut out 8, glued them down to another sheet of cardboard to double the thickness and re-cut. I ca'ed them all down and think it will work. Now to do a little sanding for a better fit.

What is "Frog Tape"?

 

[MartinVrstal]

It's the only thing I had on hand to simulate the bottom wrap.Oh...and it's green.

 

[DumasBro2]

I think they (fins) will be fine. They do look a tad large, is this an upscale of the Estes kit? Looking at your pictures does get me motivated to get my shop cleaned up and get back to work on my 1/30. The fins are still something I'm struggling with as well. Thinking about foam core and glass. Keep up the good work.

 

[MartinVrstal]

I'm building it as a 2x upscale of the old Centuri/Estes 1/100 scale. The fin pattern is from the Estes 1/70 kit that I resized. I know that the 1/70 fin was oversized for the kit...more like 1/50, so I upped it a bit.

 

[MartinVrstal]

The fins are tacked on and while they still need fillets...my next adventure focused on making the body wraps.
I went to my LHS to look for ribbed or corrugated styrene of some sort. They didn't have much for choices. I did pick up some Evergreen v-groove that I thought would work. The tail wrap is made up from that v-groove and plain .020 styrene. This was my 3rd attempt.

 

[MartinVrstal]

Next up were the upper body wraps. I used the 1/70 Estes pattern and with poster board and pencil and ruler in hand I went to town.I took the v-groove styrene and my rotary trimmer and cut single strips and CA'ed each down. My first attempt(in this photo) turned out ok...but after it was cut apart things didn't line up so well so I made a new #4 wrap.

 

[MartinVrstal]

So...after a couple days work and 4-5 tubes of super glue I have the finished wraps. There still a little off here and there but from a few feet away they'll look great...I hope.

 

[sandman]

Your decals shipped today! I missed the mail yesterday.:blush:

 

[Montaro]

Nice,

Alot of good idieas for my future cardstock project !!

Good work!!

 

[MartinVrstal]

Sounds good Gordy...can't wait to see them.

 

[chadrog]

It's a shame you got hosed on your prize from NSL, your jayhawk was a beauty (I voted for it)! Is it still flying?

 

[MartinVrstal]

Actually.....it's only flown twice. Once for my level 2 back at Midwest Power 3 and once at the NSL at Bong. I like to build but don't get much flight time. Thanks for your vote...it was a fun time.

 

[chadrog]

Sorry to get off topic, your 1B is looking awesome too!

 

[MartinVrstal]

Thanks.

 

[SMR]

I haven't posted much on here for a while in the way of a build thread but wanted to share this one. Back in 2009 I went to my first ever NAR meet. The NSL was hosted by the WOOSH guys at Bong. I entered the High Power Upscale Competition with a scratch 4" Jayhawk and won first place. Top prize that day was a voucher for one of Sheri's kits. I had contacted Sheri with my choice and she said a few weeks. Sheri Disappeared. Dave at Red Arrow purchased Sheri's rockets and when I contacted him, he said he didn't know who she had shorted and wasn't liable. So...what are my options?

Hi, Marty. I am so sorry to hear that SHR and RAH have dropped the ball on the award that was given to you. You were the winner of the first ever High Power Upscale Competition at a NAR event. I was the chair for that event, and currently on the BOD of WOOSH. You have been a real gentleman about this, and WOOSH is going to make good on the award. I just PM'd you with my email address. Please use that to send me your USPS mailing address, and be on the lookout for a package from us. It may not be the rocket you chose, but we hope you will enjoy building it anyway. With our best wishes. Sather

P.S. the Saturn 1B is looking awesome. You are a true craftsman.

 

[rocketguy101]

Wow your wraps are nice! I was debating on what to do w/ my 1/100 clone--styrene wraps like you did, or glue strips of cardstock on cardstock wraps? Then Paul Graf came to my rescue w/ his vacu-formed 1B wraps! I was going to attempt to finish my CAD model and produce a flat pattern that could be used, but have not had time to work on it.

 

[MartinVrstal]

Thanks guys for the kind words.

Sather...I PM'ed you back...Thank You Very Much.


Rocketguy...I wish Paul made the wraps for this project. Years ago he did offer a set in 1/70 scale and I used those on my K-29 clone. Then he switched to the 1/100 for the 1b and Little Joe 2.

 

[MartinVrstal]

For the past few days I turned my attention to the capsule and building an escape tower.
The capsule pattern was downloaded from JIM Z's site and scaled accordingly. Printed out on card stock,glued together and CA'ed to a piece of 3" tube coupler. I've had that part done for a couple weeks now. The other day...I mixed up some West systems epoxy, turned the capsule upside down and poured some inside. Swishing it all around and coating it well. I left a little in the nose to harden. The next morning I sanded the capsule to shape.

For the tower build...I had downloaded Rocketguy101's tower paterns from his 1/100 build over at YORF. It prints out and shows the tower at 2x size...works for me...so I went off of that. Anyone who's built a tower knows just how much fun they are.....NOT!!! The one pictured is my 2nd attempt. I thought about trying brass or styrene rod but went with 1/16 dowel and round tooth picks.

 

[rocketguy101]

Gotta love all those "T" pins!!! I believe dowels are easier to work with than styrene...I almost went that route on my 1/100 model after 2 attempts w/ plastic, and almost two attempts w/ the carbon "rods".

Be sure to check out the jig George Gassaway used to glue the LES/tower/CM together--really helps align all those parts. It is psoted here on YORF

edit: the link to George's page is out of date...i forgot where his stuff is now.

 

[MartinVrstal]

Gotta love all those "T" pins!!! I believe dowels are easier to work with than styrene...I almost went that route on my 1/100 model after 2 attempts w/ plastic, and almost two attempts w/ the carbon "rods".

Be sure to check out the jig George Gassaway used to glue the LES/tower/CM together--really helps align all those parts. It is psoted here on YORF

edit: the link to George's page is out of date...i forgot where his stuff is now.

Thanks for the tip Dave. I've tried to get to George's page for a few days now and see that it's down or something.

Photo update.....
Just got done turning some parts.....First attempt...not too shabby.

 

[Bravo52]

Hi, Marty. I am so sorry to hear that SHR and RAH have dropped the ball on the award that was given to you. You were the winner of the first ever High Power Upscale Competition at a NAR event. I was the chair for that event, and currently on the BOD of WOOSH. You have been a real gentleman about this, and WOOSH is going to make good on the award. I just PM'd you with my email address. Please use that to send me your USPS mailing address, and be on the lookout for a package from us. It may not be the rocket you chose, but we hope you will enjoy building it anyway. With our best wishes. Sather

P.S. the Saturn 1B is looking awesome. You are a true craftsman.

That was pretty classy of WOOSH to step-up and cover the award...unfortunately it was marred by throwing RAH under the bus for no good reason...:bang:

P.S.S. The Saturn 1B is looking really awesome. It is true, you are a craftsman. Martin, I really like the approach you took with the tank shroud/transition and the fiberglass.