Slow and low - recommendations

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Wildman Rocketry
SilicdyneTRF
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sl98 said:
Here are two suggestions from my low and slow fleet that I don't believe have been mentioned. A Super Big Bertha (EST 2165) and a Fat Boy (EST 1273). All you need to clone these are a PNC-80B nose cone and some BT80 tube. A stock Super Big Bertha has a 24mm MMT. I went with a 29mm MMT but I primarily fly it on a smaller field with 24/40 reloads. I consistently get 500-600 feet on an E18-4W (using Altimeter 2 for altitude). A friend of mine took a video of this rocket on an E18-4W that you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lENIeU3NzYk A stock Fat Boy is an 18mm MMT. I went with 24mm but it fly great with an adapter on C6-3's.

I recently built a Super Neon XL but haven't had a chance to fly it. It is a pretty good sized rocket that is designed to fly on D and E motors. I have seen a couple of these fly at launches and they were low and slow with their 6 BT60 tube fins. Estes has had these deeply discounted on some of their past sales but it would also be an easy clone. It uses the same nose cone as the Der Red Max.
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Nice flight with the Super Big Bertha on the E18! I think this type of rocket would be great with a long burning black powder F15.
 
I was by myself today and had the day off. After reading this, I got the itch to launch my BDRM. I was hoping to get a full movie of the launch, but...I had a hard time doing it myself. I had to launch with my foot. :) I forgot to hit record on the b6-4 launch. This is my Big Der Red Max on a c6-5. I couldn't see the LCD screen in the sun and thought I was getting the whole thing....Nope. I edited all the non-rocket video, which was most of it. The b6-4 was short and low. There was some intermittent wind and I was worried about losing it with a c6-5, but it headed up against the wind and landed in the dirt on the baseball field that can be seen in the second pic. Other than the controller that I made, all of this stuff is from my original late 70's kit. It might be the original wire too.

Anyway, even with the 18" tube, it gets some height on the C.

https://thediskwiz.com/bigderredmax/

Give a nerd a day off and this is what happens.
 
I finally built and flew a Der Red Max with my nephew, 10 other kids and 8 adults. I left the fin edges square and the paint pretty rough. The lift off was so slow that they asked if there was a problem with the rocket!

I just found my next project (well, after I finish my Patriot and Bull Pup). I'll do a Der Red Max conversion to 24mm to use the E9 engine with a 3 second burnout time. That should make for an impressive take off!
 
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The original Citation Patriot fits the bill, I modified my original to have a 5" payload section (IMHO looks better that way)

 
ttbit said:
Nice... Did you do a Der or Big Der?
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The standard version. I have everything to do a scratch build based on the Der Red Max with BT60 except a 24mm motor mount.
 
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Here is a rough guideline of rocket diameters verses engine power that will keep you around 500 feet or less. This assumes roughly a simple 3 or 4 finned rocket, built standard (ie rounding fins, some filling and painting, but not excessive or having a lot of plastic), with a decent fineness ratio (ie not 'stubby' and not 'twiggy'). A decent rough fineness ratio would be something like an Estes Wizard.

1/4A - BT-5
1/2A - BT-20/50
A - BT-50/55
B - BT-55/60
C - BT-60/70
D - BT-80

Obviously, this can vary depending on construction techniques, length and size of things like fins, tubes, etc. I have found this guide has held true through several hundred flights of all sorts of rockets.

FC
 
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TopRamen said:
Here's my "Low & Slow" BT-80 based Scratch Build. I doubt it goes more than 300 Feet high on a D12.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?68414-Meow-Mixer-24mm-Scratch-Build
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Yes, I followed your unusual cat based build thread :)

I guess a stubby red max with huge square fins and a bit of added weight, like an estes altimeter, and rough finish paint job will stay pretty low on a variety of 24 mm motors. I'm aiming for D or E class.

I will also try to dope the fins for extra added strength since they are not mounted through the wall.
 
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so far my favorite ball park rocket is a baby bertha with an A8-3 motor. flies nice and low. It also flies GREAT on B and C engines.
 
I am really new to this forum, so I get surprised when people jump in here who actually designed rockets for Estes and such. :) That is a neat design.
 
My two best low and slow designs to date are the patriot and the red max. I jus bought some AeroTech D10-5W and will try them with these two rockets.
 
Another recommendation, if you're in the clone build frame of mind, is the old Estes NASA Pegasus. Nice slow flights on B's, without too much altitude.

-Hans
 
Hmmm...Let us know how that goes. I need to push my son into finishing his Patriot this weekend. I have a couple of scratch builds I will ramp up on and get him motivated. :)
 
Have him finish it! Its an easy kit that just looks great and has a pretty impressive flight on a C6.
 
The D10 flights should be really cool, I've seen a few 24mm max's but never one fly on a D10. I think the D10 is actually more impulse than a D12 so it should fly really well.

By the way, if you still are looking at park flyers, you might want to consider the Fliskits Decaffinator:
https://www.fliskits.com/products/01prod_fs.htm (the link goes to the main page, unfortunately it won't link the page for the decaffinator)
Since it's made of mostly styrofoam cups, it's incredibly light and can park fly on C11s and D12s, maybe even the D10s. Very easy to build and super fun, although maximum altitude is probably around 250 feet.
 
Here is the link to the Decaffeinator: https://fliskits.com/products/rocketkits/kit_detail/decaffeinator.htm

A great small field rocket, a real "kid magnet" and the only model rocket kit where you can get spare parts from Dunkin Donuts... LOL

another great small field TWO stage, would be our Frick-n-Frack, found here: https://fliskits.com/products/rocketkits/kit_detail/frick-n-frack.htm

Even with two C motors she only hits about 120 feet but with all the two-stage excitement you'd expect!


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum
 
I fly both frequently... my Frick-n-Frack had a staging failure last flight (staged, not upper stage ignition and fin ripped off) but it's easy to repair and is a great rocket. The Decaffinator is a great crowd pleaser on d12-3's... be careful if flying c11s.

I have a trifecta built and waiting to fly, hopefully soon. Another great small field rocket, I've never seen any other saucer that has 3 stages.

I might try building another decaffinator with the ability to fly E12s and composites. Is it stable with heavier motors?
 
My TLP TAN-SAM flies slow and low. It's a real sight to behold too! 2 D12s put it up around 400 Feet or so, and provide plenty of Smoke, Fire and Noise.
 
morlock said:
The TAN-SAM is a cluster?
Click to expand...

Indeed it is, and my very first at that!
Now I want to build another with a 3x24mm Cluster Mount.
The Front Fins have a most impressive Span, and watching it go up feels like Magic happening.
Can't have ANY Wind though. I never launch Rockets with Chutes' in Wind, and especially Rockets with this much Fin Surface Area.

TANSAMFINSSURFACEAREA 002.jpg
 
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TopRamen said:
Indeed it is, and my very first at that!
Now I want to build another with a 3x24mm Cluster Mount.
The Front Fins have a most impresive Span, and watching it go up feels like Magic happening.
Can't have ANY Wind though. I never launch Rockets with Chutes' in Wind, and especially Rockets with this much Fin Surface Area.

View attachment 183495
Click to expand...

Waiting for a windless day in Quebec City would mean I would never launch anything :)

I really want to build something with large forward fins though. Maybe the Harpoon or Flail or Maverick. Even though the Maverick doesn't have forward fins, it has large fin area.
 
Ez2cDave said:
The BABY BERTHA is an EXCELLENT choice . . . Plus, it's HALF the COST of a BIG BERTHA ! ! !
Click to expand...

I like the looks of Baby Bertha better than Big Bertha. For a bigger low and slow rocket, I think a BT-80 Baby Bertha upscale would be cool for low-thrust E9 motors, or even bigger for F15's.
 
Besides the Baby Bertha, We love the Estes BLU-97B Cluster Bomb on a B6-4, making it look like slow motion in the air while taking perfect video of every detail. My wife's favorite rocket over the Baby Bertha and we love BB. Not sure if you could get any slower, yet fly straight and safe.

Don't round or bevel the fins and give the rocket lots of beautiful paint and clear coats to maximize the low and slow effect. This is the rare occasion you want the rocket to look good because everybody is going to see it up close going slow in the air.
 
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I'm working on some mini PSII rockets right now. They use the 13mm "T" motors. Right now I'm showing the mini Argent to reach only 300ft. Almost all the parts are available from BMS. Well, all but the NC and it has a BMS alternative but it's a tad shorter. Not that anyone will notice.

The mini Ventris is almost done as well. Just need to calculate the launch lug standoff and its file will be done.

I'll have the mini Partizon and mini Leviathan done in the next two days.

I can post them here if you want.
 
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JERRYR708 said:
Besides the Baby Bertha, We love the Estes BLU-97B Cluster Bomb on a B6-4, making it look like slow motion in the air while taking perfect video of every detail. My wife's favorite rocket over the Baby Bertha and we love BB. Not sure if you could get any slower, yet fly straight and safe.

Don't round or bevel the fins and give the rocket lots of beautiful paint and clear coats to maximize the low and slow effect. This is the rare occasion you want the rocket to look good because everybody is going to see it up close going slow in the air.
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Thanks for the suggestion. The Cluster Bomb looks nice!
 
Kruegon said:
I'm working on some mini PSII rockets right now. They use the 13mm "T" motors. Right now I'm showing the mini Argent to reach only 300ft. Almost all the parts are available from BMS. Well, all but the NC and it has a BMS alternative but it's a tad shorter. Not that anyone will notice.

The mini Ventris is almost done as well. Just need to calculate the launch lug standoff and its file will be done.

I'll have the mini Partizon and mini Leviathan done in the next two days.

I can post them here if you want.
Click to expand...
Sure, please post them! I've never been in the 13mm, but that is something that could interest me :)
 

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