Painting - No More Rattle Cans

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dave carver said:
I use a pint can detail sprayer, the likes you can't find anymore. It's like a miniature quart sprayer. I use Columbia Paints Speed Set Acrylic Enamals thinned with Xylol. Primer is called Coroguard. Fast drying for marine pier use. Yeah, they're industrial paints but they come in quart cans, gallons, 5 gallons and 55 gallon drums....how much do you need? ;)
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Oh, they're still around but you need to go to the HVLP version now. At least the air demands are much lower than a HVLP production gun, and decent HVLP detail guns aren't ridiculously expensive. Amazon has a DeVilbiss detail HVLP for less than $90.

I have an old Sharpe D-5-55 that I now use mostly for spraying primer. With primer it's a waste of a good gun, but I have shot some color for on rockets and it just reminds you how easy things can be with the right equipment.
 
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tonka said:
Oh, they're still around but you need to go to the HVLP version now. At least the air demands are much lower than a HVLP production gun, and decent HVLP detail guns aren't ridiculously expensive. Amazon has a DeVilbiss detail HVLP for less than $90.

I have an old Sharpe D-5-55 that I now use mostly for spraying primer. With primer it's a waste of a good gun, but I have shot some color for on rockets and it just reminds you how easy things can be with the right equipment.
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i don't get the HVLP thing. I painted from my Sharp at 40-45 psi. That's the same pressure I use in HVLP. My painting technique didn't change. What the heck am I missing?
 
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VonMises said:
i don't get the HVLP thing. I painted from my Sharp at 40-45 psi. That's the same pressure I use in HVLP. My painting technique didn't change. What the heck am I missing?
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Less overspray and less wasted paint. At least that's what I've been told. I know a buddy that does auto body work says that he spends much less on primer because the gun puts more of the paint on the surface, and he likes the control with the HVLP better than a siphon.
 
tonka said:
Less overspray and less wasted paint. At least that's what I've been told. I know a buddy that does auto body work says that he spends much less on primer because the gun puts more of the paint on the surface, and he likes the control with the HVLP better than a siphon.
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I painted two 3 inch dia rockets yellow with an HVLP. I also painted the floor and all other horizontal surfaces yellow too. I have GOT to be doing something wrong.
 
VonMises said:
I painted two 3 inch dia rockets yellow with an HVLP. I also painted the floor and all other horizontal surfaces yellow too. I have GOT to be doing something wrong.
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The wood deck on my back patio has traces of paint drips where I was too lazy to go to my poor man's paint booth because the light is by the back door (nighttime painting). My poor man's paint booth consists of plastic sheeting on three sides and the deck. I have some bailing wire hooks hanging from above and a paint stand made out of PVC parts and filled with playground sand so it won't tip over. It works for my purposes. Oh, no fan, so I am wearing safety glasses, respirator, and long-sleeve t-shirt (my idea of safety).

Have yet to start with the air brush since someone here told me about Dupli-Color paint cans:cool: Figure if I don't start air brushing, maybe my nephew will get a new airbrush next Christmas.

Also have the Critter siphon gun which I think I will use, but need somebody to suggest what paints to use with it, plus what they use to thin the paint with (everyday paint thinner? is it xylene? or toluene?). Oh, and couldn't I use the same stuff for clean-up?
 
hball55 said:
Also have the Critter siphon gun which I think I will use, but need somebody to suggest what paints to use with it, plus what they use to thin the paint with (everyday paint thinner? is it xylene? or toluene?). Oh, and couldn't I use the same stuff for clean-up?
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If you have a siphon gun, I'm assuming something like the picture, then you can use any of the Enamel, Lacquer, and urethane automotive paint systems. This includes hardner or flex additives.
SAHRP.jpg


Generally, you'll find at least one auto parts store in every area that will mix paints in quantities down to a pint. I have two NAPA stores locally, and there's another store, I think O'Rileys in another town, but I haven't been there. In any case, they will be happy to offer a crash course in the available paint systems.
 
100_0095.jpgThis is what the Critter looks like; nothing as sophisticated as your gun, as it uses mason jars.

What about thinner? Xylene or toluene?
 
neither ! esp not tolene.

for enamels, plain old mineral spirits will work. can slow dry time. or a small bit of Naptha.

look up "japan dryer" as well to learn some other techniques.

fwiw, this morning I was thinking about polyurethane paints,and what thinner they use.
I have not looked for a polyurethane paint in a few years.
I used some a long time back about year 2001, to paint mdf cabinets and a dirt bike stand. fantastic results out of the can, - with a brush, not a spray.
 
hball55 said:
View attachment 158173This is what the Critter looks like; nothing as sophisticated as your gun, as it uses mason jars.

What about thinner? Xylene or toluene?
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That's a neat little setup. never seen one of those before. I've always used automotive enamel and lacquer thinners, and always from the same manufacturer until I became more familitar with the paints. If you decide to dabble in polyurethane, it's a good idea to have a fresh air system. If you dive, you could use your tank and regulator. :)

This is a decent set for $90:
https://www.tcpglobal.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=TCP+G7000

It's not the greatest in the world but for the hobbist it's more than enough. Vaportrail let me use his to paint 3 inch upscales of the A-20 Demon and Mark II. I'm planning to get this set sometime around April.
 
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hball55 said:
That TCP Global set is quite a deal.
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Indeed it is. I turned my nose up at it until Vaportrail had to ruin my smug contentment. Paint guns have come a long way since I bought my Sharp back in 1977.

Still, I havent noticed that big of a difference painting with either setup. With the HVLP, you need a stand to hold the gun while you fill/refill it. The old siphon guns were far more conveniant in this regard.
 
Well, just got some cans of Dupli-Color ordered from Amazon. All I can say is F Dupli-Color. Those bastages have the same stinking nozzle the Krylon cans do. These nozzles don't properly aerosolize the paint, causing it to come out with fine particles on the outside of the spray (good), but thick droplets that run in the center (lousy). Wasted my money on the paint and now I have a small sanding job ahead of me before applying primer again.
 
hball55 said:
Well, just got some cans of Dupli-Color ordered from Amazon. All I can say is F Dupli-Color. Those bastages have the same stinking nozzle the Krylon cans do. These nozzles don't properly aerosolize the paint, causing it to come out with fine particles on the outside of the spray (good), but thick droplets that run in the center (lousy). Wasted my money on the paint and now I have a small sanding job ahead of me before applying primer again.
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I bought the Duplicolor I used on 5FDP at Autozone. I didn't have any problems with the nozzles, but the paint is very translucent. It took a crapload of coats to get it mostly covered. I think I used three or four cans. I could have done this with one can of Rusto 2x.

247_purple.jpg

267_purple.jpg

318_5fdp.jpg
 
hball55 said:
Well, just got some cans of Dupli-Color ordered from Amazon. All I can say is F Dupli-Color. Those bastages have the same stinking nozzle the Krylon cans do. These nozzles don't properly aerosolize the paint, causing it to come out with fine particles on the outside of the spray (good), but thick droplets that run in the center (lousy). Wasted my money on the paint and now I have a small sanding job ahead of me before applying primer again.
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Ya know, I can relate to that also. Duplicolor rattle cans aren't the greatest although the paint is pretty good. Prolly better used in an airbrush. I've had issues with the heavy spits that leave thicker deposits. Here's something that can help with that. A few minutes after you spray with the Duplicolor, hit it with some clear acrylic. This helps the paint to flood some. Honestly, auto paints are the way to go in the long run and the Rusto 2X paints are great as well. Too bad those have such a limited color selection.
 
qquake2k said:
I bought the Duplicolor I used on 5FDP at Autozone. I didn't have any problems with the nozzles, but the paint is very translucent. It took a crapload of coats to get it mostly covered. I think I used three or four cans. I could have done this with one can of Rusto 2x.
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And I forgot about that issue. I had to use a lot of paint to get my up scale Cobra evened out.
 
Gary Byrum said:
Ya know, I can relate to that also. Duplicolor rattle cans aren't the greatest although the paint is pretty good. Prolly better used in an airbrush. I've had issues with the heavy spits that leave thicker deposits. Here's something that can help with that. A few minutes after you spray with the Duplicolor, hit it with some clear acrylic. This helps the paint to flood some. Honestly, auto paints are the way to go in the long run and the Rusto 2X paints are great as well. Too bad those have such a limited color selection.
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I'll go out and try that right now. I have some Dupli-Color clearcoat I'll use. Thanks and, of course, I'll let you know if it works.

So you both had dark areas and light areas but were able to even it out by going over the areas multiple times? By the way, purple is the color I'm using.

Not looking good, the clearcoat made some of the color run alright, now the grey primer is showing through in places, lol.

I'm considering a four color fleet of rockets, grey primer, red oxide primer, flat black and flat white. Never have problems with those paints.

So Duplicolor comes in cans (not spray)? I'll check that out and try them in my Critter siphon sprayer.
 
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I'm pretty sure NAPA carries Dup in cans, but I have been reluctant to buy them that way. Just never went there. I was much happier with the auto paint colors they can mix for you and the selection is huge. I've been dancing in their metal flake colors for years now and have yet to be disappointed. Gotta clean your airbrush and bottles well though. That stuff clogs easily.
 
Gary Byrum said:
I'm pretty sure NAPA carries Dup in cans, but I have been reluctant to buy them that way. Just never went there. I was much happier with the auto paint colors they can mix for you and the selection is huge. I've been dancing in their metal flake colors for years now and have yet to be disappointed. Gotta clean your airbrush and bottles well though. That stuff clogs easily.
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When you say they mix it for you, then what type of container do they put it in? Bottle? When I said cans, I meant something I could use with my Critter, which uses mason jars to hold the paint. Anything but a rattle can, unless it uses a standard nozzle unlike Krylon and Duplicolor nozzles (which are the same).

By the way, I'm almost done sanding the booster section of my VB BoB, what a pain!
 
hball55 said:
When you say they mix it for you, then what type of container do they put it in? Bottle? When I said cans, I meant something I could use with my Critter, which uses mason jars to hold the paint. Anything but a rattle can, unless it uses a standard nozzle unlike Krylon and Duplicolor nozzles (which are the same).

By the way, I'm almost done sanding the booster section of my VB BoB, what a pain!
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They mix it then put it in a small paint can. You will also have to purchase a can of reducer and a can of hardener to mix with it before it can be used. I use this paint for my airbrush. Usually I will only mix what I think I'll need at that time because once you add the reducer & hardener, it's activated. For instance, if I buy 1/2 cup of paint, I may not use all of it all at once. Mix just what you'll need that day because if there's any left over, it will set up and turn to gel within a week. I made the mistake of mixing all that I had bought and stored the unused portion for later. Can't do that. But you can store the unactivated paint for better than a year. In my airbrush, a little goes a very long way. I don't know anything about your "critter" but if I were you, I'd show it to the mix master at NAPPA. They know what they are selling can be a lot of help getting you forward on this. I only use their Acrylic Enamel paint and they helped me get the right reducer & hardener for it.
 
hball55 said:
Well, just got some cans of Dupli-Color ordered from Amazon. All I can say is F Dupli-Color. Those bastages have the same stinking nozzle the Krylon cans do. These nozzles don't properly aerosolize the paint, causing it to come out with fine particles on the outside of the spray (good), but thick droplets that run in the center (lousy). Wasted my money on the paint and now I have a small sanding job ahead of me before applying primer again.
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Sorry to hear that. I've only had issue with a single can. The nozle had a "spitting" problem. But I'v never had problems with them sticking, or clogging. Did you mix the paint well? Did you set the nozzle for the direction you painted as this is a sure way to get runs. Which Duplicolor were you using, enamel, lacquer, or perfect match?

If the color is opaque, let it dry and wet sand it untill smooth. 2 days for lacquer if it's not too thick, and one week for enamels. Wet sand with 1500 or 2000 grit, then polish, it should look like a mirror when you're finished.

If the paint is metallic, it's probably Perfect Match. In this case it's a higher quality lacquer, but generally minor runs will lay down as it drys.

Dark and light spots are generally cayused by an uneven base or primer coat. If the base is evenly colored, the paint will be too.

As Gary and I both pointed out, "Generally, you'll find at least one auto parts store in every area that will mix paints in quantities down to a pint. I have two NAPA stores locally...they will be happy to offer a crash course in the available paint systems. If you want to try the paint gun, some NAPA stores can mix paint as gary pointed out.

Not sure If I posted this, sorry If I duped, but there's no reason you can't get results like this, if that's what you're after. With the exception of the candy Orange, all of ehese are rattle cans.:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?56770-Finishing-a-Rocket-with-Lacquer

Color washing off with the clearcoat can caused by a few things:
If it's enamel, then it may not have fully cured
If it's lacquer, then the paint is probably going on too thick.
Incompatible paints.

The first coat of paint should be so light that it looks like a mist. Build the paint up slowly with multiple passes. By the third pass you should have patches of color. After 4 or 5 passes it should be fully colored. Let it set for 15 minutes. then apply the next coat in 3 passes, light, medium, then just enough to get a shine. That should be sufficient.

If you're getting runs, it may be a technique issue. Usually applying paint too fast while moving the arm too slow. This will result in runs regardless of the systen used.

qquake2k said:
I bought the Duplicolor I used on 5FDP at Autozone. I didn't have any problems with the nozzles, but the paint is very translucent. It took a crapload of coats to get it mostly covered. I think I used three or four cans. I could have done this with one can of Rusto 2x.
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The paint in the picture is Metalcast. That's a translucent paint formulated to color chrome. It's not suited to be a base coat. I'll bet it did take three cans.
 
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VonMises said:
Sorry to hear that. I've only had issue with a single can. The nozle had a "spitting" problem. But I'v never had problems with them sticking, or clogging. Did you mix the paint well? Did you set the nozzle for the direction you painted as this is a sure way to get runs. Which Duplicolor were you using, enamel, lacquer, or perfect match?

If the color is opaque, let it dry and wet sand it untill smooth. 2 days for lacquer if it's not too thick, and one week for enamels. Wet sand with 1500 or 2000 grit, then polish, it should look like a mirror when you're finished.

If the paint is metallic, it's probably Perfect Match. In this case it's a higher quality lacquer, but generally minor runs will lay down as it drys.

Dark and light spots are generally cayused by an uneven base or primer coat. If the base is evenly colored, the paint will be too.

As Gary and I both pointed out, "Generally, you'll find at least one auto parts store in every area that will mix paints in quantities down to a pint. I have two NAPA stores locally...they will be happy to offer a crash course in the available paint systems. If you want to try the paint gun, some NAPA stores can mix paint as gary pointed out.

Not sure If I posted this, sorry If I duped, but there's no reason you can't get results like this, if that's what you're after. With the exception of the candy Orange, all of ehese are rattle cans.:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?56770-Finishing-a-Rocket-with-Lacquer

Color washing off with the clearcoat can caused by a few things:
If it's enamel, then it may not have fully cured
If it's lacquer, then the paint is probably going on too thick.
Incompatible paints.

The first coat of paint should be so light that it looks like a mist. Build the paint up slowly with multiple passes. By the third pass you should have patches of color. After 4 or 5 passes it should be fully colored. Let it set for 15 minutes. then apply the next coat in 3 passes, light, medium, then just enough to get a shine. That should be sufficient.

If you're getting runs, it may be a technique issue. Usually applying paint too fast while moving the arm too slow. This will result in runs regardless of the systen used.


The paint in the picture is Metalcast. That's a translucent paint formulated to color chrome. It's not suited to be a base coat. I'll bet it did take three cans.
Click to expand...


Listening to the great advice you guys have given me, I have concluded that it's operator error. I can't apply this paint in the same manner I do with say Rustoleum. I will need to be more patient and follow your advice regarding first coat being mist and build from there. The paint is Metal Cast Anodized which it says is for metal surfaces, lol. Hopefully, I can make it work for my rockets by slowly building the coats and employing wet-sanding in between coats.

Thanks ever so much Gary, Xray, Captain, VonMises, hope I didn't leave anybody out. Everything you guys have said has been reiterated by my neighbor and I have found all his advice to be invaluable in the past. I/We are all fortunate to have this forum to exchange ideas/methods.
 
hball55 said:
Listening to the great advice you guys have given me, I have concluded that it's operator error. I can't apply this paint in the same manner I do with say Rustoleum. I will need to be more patient and follow your advice regarding first coat being mist and build from there. The paint is Metal Cast Anodized which it says is for metal surfaces, lol. Hopefully, I can make it work for my rockets by slowly building the coats and employing wet-sanding in between coats.

Thanks ever so much Gary, Xray, Captain, VonMises, hope I didn't leave anybody out. Everything you guys have said has been reiterated by my neighbor and I have found all his advice to be invaluable in the past. I/We are all fortunate to have this forum to exchange ideas/methods.
Click to expand...

Now you know why everyone loves this forum. It's a wealth of information.
 
hball55 said:
Listening to the great advice you guys have given me, I have concluded that it's operator error. I can't apply this paint in the same manner I do with say Rustoleum. I will need to be more patient and follow your advice regarding first coat being mist and build from there. The paint is Metal Cast Anodized which it says is for metal surfaces, lol. Hopefully, I can make it work for my rockets by slowly building the coats and employing wet-sanding in between coats.

Thanks ever so much Gary, Xray, Captain, VonMises, hope I didn't leave anybody out. Everything you guys have said has been reiterated by my neighbor and I have found all his advice to be invaluable in the past. I/We are all fortunate to have this forum to exchange ideas/methods.
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Go ahead and use the MetalCast. Vaportrail alternated Clear Metallic and Metalcast on a black surface and came up with an awesome paintjob.

Send him a PM, I'm sure he'll help all he can. He hates to paint, but he's getting very good at it anyway.
 
I'm fairly new to painting rockets, well painting anything really. I hate painting, but getting better at it. Anyway, I painted my most recent project, Big Daddy, using a gravity feed paint gun from Lowes and cheap acrylic craft paints from Wal-Mart and Hobby Lobby. Can get it at Hobby Lobby for like 50 cents a tube, comes in small tubes. Any color under the sun. I intended to use it to practice because its cheap, but the rocket turned out pretty good, especially considering it was my first time using a spray gun. Once I figure out the proper mixing I'm sure the finishes will be better. I sprayed gloss Rustoleum automotive enamel as a clear coat. I gotta sand it a bit and clear coat it again then I'll post it. It's a cheap way to go, got less than 5 bucks invested in the Big Daddy paint job.
 
One thing I just learned, that obviously he rest of you that use enamels with reducer and hardener know, is that you'd better be wearing a respirator. My neighbor tells me that a guy he knows didn't wear a respirator and breathed the stuff into his lungs and when he hardener hardened he died. I hope he wasn't pulling my leg, because I hate looking gullible, but he's been straight with me in all other things, that I chose to believe him.
 
hball55 said:
One thing I just learned, that obviously he rest of you that use enamels with reducer and hardener know, is that you'd better be wearing a respirator. My neighbor tells me that a guy he knows didn't wear a respirator and breathed the stuff into his lungs and when he hardener hardened he died. I hope he wasn't pulling my leg, because I hate looking gullible, but he's been straight with me in all other things, that I chose to believe him.
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That's some pretty nasty stuff alright... it's the hardener that does it... from what I've read you're supposed to wear basically a self-contained breather with an outside air source-- a respirator doesn't technically cut it.

IIRC the hardener is supposed to release cyanide or something as it cures, something like that... very nasty stuff... I used to read up on it quite a bit because TSC sold a line of restoration enamel paints for restoring farm equipment, and sold small cans of hardener that you could add in to the paint before shooting it on... that's the stuff I recall from the warnings on the back of it. The hardener is supposed to make the paint much more resistant to scratches and dings than the same paint without hardener... You COULD shoot the paint without hardener, which is what I did... it's just not as hard and shiny when finished and a little more prone to dings and scratches, but for farm equipment, who cares?? Not like I wanted a show-car finish on an antique John Deere B or something...

You're correct-- be VERY careful with that stuff! No finish is worth ruining your health or killing yourself...

Later! OL JR :)
 
You COULD shoot the paint without hardener, which is what I did... it's just not as hard and shiny when finished and a little more prone to dings and scratches, but for farm equipment, who cares??
Later! OL JR :)[/QUOTE]


That's good to know, I'm used to paint that chips easily which doesn't bother me. I figure a couple of clearcoats would help protect the paint enough for my purposes.
 
hball55 said:
That's good to know, I'm used to paint that chips easily which doesn't bother me. I figure a couple of clearcoats would help protect the paint enough for my purposes.
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You should always use a respirator. If you paint with urethanes, you should use a fresh air system. Urethanes will attack your liver.

If you have the opportunity, you might want to try a flex additive in your enamel. We added flex to the paint going on bumpers. I would imagine it would help protect the paint from cracking due to ejection forces. I haven't tried this on a rocket yet, but thanks to Nathan, I'll probably be applying enamel via paint gun this spring. Nathan is responsible for getting me out of my Lacquer bubble.
 

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