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  1. #1
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    G10 vs G12 tubing?

    Hello all,
    I have been planning a build that will be all fiberglass and called "The Bullet"
    It will be a 29mm MD rocket flying on a (whaddaya think?!) an H410 by CTI.
    I was looking at Rocketry Warehouse, and noticed they have several types of tubing:
    They have Carbon Fiber tubing.
    They have colored G12 tubing.
    They have G12 fiberglass and G12 profusion.
    They have G10 fiberglass.

    What are all of these?!?!?!

    Thanks
    Matt

    Last edited by blackbrandt; 30th September 2012 at 11:40 PM.
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  2. #2
    troj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbrandt View Post
    They have Carbon Fiber tubing.
    Filament-wound carbon fiber

    They have colored G12 tubing.
    Filament-wound fiberglass with color added to the resin.

    They have G12 fiberglass and G12 profusion.
    I believe the G12 tube is made from cloth, instead of filament-wound. "profusion" is probably their term for epoxy infusion -- typical layups are done by wetting out the cloth, first, then wrapping and adding additional resin, as needed. Infusion is done by using a vaccuum pump to draw resin into a layup made with dry-wrapped cloth.

    Gary Tortora can likely confirm whether or not this is correct.

    They have G10 fiberglass.
    Filament-wound fiberglass.

    -Kevin


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbrandt View Post
    Hello all,
    I have been planning a build that will be all fiberglass and called "The Bullet"
    It will be a 29mm MD rocket flying on a (whaddaya think?!) an H410 by CTI.
    I was looking at Rocketry Warehouse, and noticed they have several types of tubing:
    They have Carbon Fiber tubing.
    They have colored G12 tubing.
    They have G12 fiberglass and G12 profusion.
    They have G10 fiberglass.

    What are all of these?!?!?!

    Also, where can you find a 29mm nose cone?
    Thanks
    Matt

    Matt,

    Look closer. Under the G10 selection, it says "there are no products to list in this category".

    Which is my problem. I need a coupler for 8" G10 tube. The G12 coupler for 8" tubing is way too loose. My only option so far is to wrap my G12 coupler with some fiberglass to make the OD bigger to get a tighter fit.

    Adrian
    Adrian Butler
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  4. #4
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    This I'm sure about: G10 fiberglass tubing is wound cloth, and G12 is plain-filament wound.

    I believe "G12 profusion" is filament-wound but with a different resin; it's black and supposed to be stronger and/or more heat-resistant. I'm not sure whether that's actually true or not.

    In my rocket club's experience, G10 is much lighter than G12, but much less tough; we've had it split open by a blue tube coupler before. On the other hand, drilling holes in filament-wound tube has been known to weaken it significantly.

    If you want your rocket to truly "disappear" on the H410, you might not want to use these products, since they're probably much stronger and heavier than you need.

    Regarding nosecones: Shockwave has fiberglass ones that fit the thicker HPR style tubing nicely.
    Last edited by CarVac; 30th September 2012 at 11:54 PM. Reason: nosecone
    Several rocket motors burned this year.

  5. #5
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    Shockwave makes nominally nice 29mm fiberglass cones. I've had mixed luck-they're either near perfect 2-part mold cones (no plaster top coat like the old PR and wildman cones, fiberglass right at the surface), or they're terrible-completely out of round and misshapen. CarVac got that one replaced for free, though. The cones are a little bit on the heavy side but you will never be able to break it.

    I don't know that their CF tubing is; I've seen performance rocketry carbon fiber tubing that was wrapped-fabric style and also seen some that was filament-wound style. Either way, for a 29mm MD, it's probably unnecessarily strong. The colored tubing and profusion tubing are identical to the G12 tubing in construction style; they're all filament-wound fiberglass at something like a 60 degree wind angle. Far from ideal, thick-walled tube, totally indestructible. The colored ones have pigment in the epoxy matrix, the profusion ones have powdered graphite to make the tube look like CF and also to add a modicum of strength. I don't know if the profusion tube has enough graphite to inhibit radio and GPS. The G10 tubing is fabric-wrapped fiberglass. It's lighter than the filament-wound tube and almost as strong in lab tests-but it fails more readily in the field. A friend lake staked a rocket that had a blue-tube coupler and a G10 fiberglass tube in front of that, and the blue-tube coupler split the fiberglass tube down the middle and barely got scratched in the process.

    You want something light and stiff for this. If you don't want to make your own tube (which is what I'd recommend, all the commercial tubes will have thicker-than-necessary walls), I'd order the plain G12 or Hawk Mountain G12. The Hawk Mountain tubing is a little lighter and a little thinner-walled, and is stiffer (but more brittle). At this size, the brittleness almost certainly won't matter.

    Or, get a thin-walled paper tube (for a motor mount), and put 2-3 wraps of carbon fiber around it, wrapped under tension, and you'll be in even better shape.


    EDIT: ahahaha CarVac beat me to the punch. You can tell we're both having trouble focusing on homework today. =p

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCotner View Post
    Or, get a thin-walled paper tube (for a motor mount), and put 2-3 wraps of carbon fiber around it, wrapped under tension, and you'll be in even better shape.
    Is that what Aksrockets did for his 29mm MD rocket? He sanded off the paper from around a 29mm tube and gave it a wrap or two of CF.
    Thoughts?
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  7. #7
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    Carbon Fiber is filament wound carbon fiber tubing

    G12 is filament wound fiberglass tubing. The colored stuff is the same except for a pigment added to the epoxy. Most people use this if they don't plan on painting their rocket. Profusion tubing is also the same except with a graphite infused epoxy, hence the different color. The rocketry warehouse website says its stronger than plain G12.

    G10 is convolute wound fiberglass tubing. It is a fiberglass cloth based product that they seem to be phasing out.
    Chris Dreher
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbrandt View Post
    Is that what Aksrockets did for his 29mm MD rocket? He sanded off the paper from around a 29mm tube and gave it a wrap or two of CF.
    Thoughts?
    Hey! Someone remembers my rockets!
    Yes, I peeled a 29mm BT down to a thin paper skin (almost nothing) and gave it 3 wraps of 3k twill carbon fiber. Using a peeled down tube eliminates the need for a mandrel. That way, I know that the ID of my tube will be correct. I also dont have to worry about waxing a mandrel or wrapping mylar around one.

    Alex
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  9. #9
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    Yep! I watched your entire video (the one with the annoying high voice as you fast forwarded through the process.)
    What type of tube?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbrandt View Post
    What type of tube?
    It's round.

    Alex
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksrockets View Post
    Hey! Someone remembers my rockets!
    Yes, I peeled a 29mm BT down to a thin paper skin (almost nothing) and gave it 3 wraps of 3k twill carbon fiber. Using a peeled down tube eliminates the need for a mandrel. That way, I know that the ID of my tube will be correct. I also dont have to worry about waxing a mandrel or wrapping mylar around one.

    Alex
    Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. I didn't pay close enough attention though (apparently), because I didn't realize it was blue tube. The blue tube paper base is probably much stronger than the estes paper tubing I had in mind. Clever! That's my favorite solution. Much easier than making tubes from scratch.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCotner View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. I didn't pay close enough attention though (apparently), because I didn't realize it was blue tube. The blue tube paper base is probably much stronger than the estes paper tubing I had in mind. Clever! That's my favorite solution. Much easier than making tubes from scratch.
    It wasnt blue tube, 29 BT (29mm body tube). Just BMS paper.
    I'm pleasantly that people actually remember my build threads!

    Alex
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  13. #13
    troj's Avatar
    troj is offline Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potentate of Perilous Pans TRF_ADMIN.png
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    I happened to stumble across this, while doing a different web search, and it made me think of this thread. Here's the answer, straight from the Performance Rocketry Website.

    G10 Convolute Fiberglass Tubing
    Our G10 Fiberglass tubing is manufactured from premium woven fiberglass cloth and epoxy.
    The process uses an inline winder that wraps many layers of cloth and epoxy with heat and pressure.
    Product is then placed in an oven for cure and post cure.
    Color: Natural Green
    Finish: Centerless Ground / Smooth

    G12 Filament Wound Rocket Tubing
    Our G12 Fiberglass rocket tubing is manufactured from premium fiberglass roving and epoxy.
    The process uses a state of the art filament winder that is fully automated and computer driven.
    Each tube size is engineered to offer the highest linear strength for use in rocketry.
    All airframes are constructed with many layers of different wind angles from 30 Deg to 45 Deg.
    Product is then placed in an oven for cure and post cure.
    Color: Natural Green Options Red / Blue / White / Yellow by special order
    Finish: Centerless Ground / Smooth

    G12 Filament Wound Profusion Tubing
    Our G12 Fiberglass rocket tubing is manufactured from premium fiberglass roving and graphite infused epoxy.
    The process uses a state of the art filament winder that is fully automated and computer driven.
    Each tube size is engineered to offer the highest linear strength for use in rocketry.
    All airframes are constructed with many layers of different wind angles from 20 Deg to 45 Deg.
    Product is then placed in an oven for cure and post cure.
    Color: Graphite Black
    Finish: Centerless Ground / Smooth

    Carbon Fiber Filament Wound Tubing
    Our Carbon Fiber tubing is manufactured from premium carbon fiber tow and epoxy.
    The process uses a state of the art filament winder that is fully automated and computer driven.
    Each tube size is engineered to offer the highest linear strength for use in rocketry.
    All airframes are constructed with many layers of different wind angles from 20 Deg to 45 Deg.
    Product is then placed in an oven for cure and post cure.
    Color: Carbon Fiber Black
    Finish: Centerless Ground / Smooth

  14. #14
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    Wow! Thanks, Troj!

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