Tracking systems

Want some opinions, which type of tracking systems do everyone use and why? Advantages/disadvantages?

For large rockets, the Garmin Astro. It's relatively expensive and bulky, but you can't beat it for convenience.

I second the Garmin Astro. Works great, but is better suited for 3" or larger airframes.

cjl said:

For large rockets, the Garmin Astro. It's relatively expensive and bulky, but you can't beat it for convenience.

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In the NCR club, there have been a couple of large projects that were lost after high-performance boosts, despite carrying a Garmin, due to the Garmin never regaining GPS lock before it went out of line-of-sight. I'm not sure that it's better or worse than the alternatives, but its less-than-perfect recovery rate is a warning flag to me.

The only thing more annoying than losing a rocket that doesn't have a tracker in it is losing a rocket that does have a tracker in it. I know, because I have lost several rockets with trackers, though only the RDF variety so far.

Lots of opinions to be had on this topic. I prefer the Beeline tracker and GPS offerings. I already have ham gear for the ground segment. The BigRedBee stuff is pretty small and seems reasonably priced to me. Plus it can change frequencies in case of interference.

Rather than the Garmin Astro, I went with the basic BRB900 GPS transmitter/receiver to get coordinates of the rocket and then a Garmin 72H handheld to provide a direction and distance to walk/drive to the rocket. Same idea as the Astro, but about $150 less and the BRB900 transmitter fits in a 38mm body tube easily and weighs only 67 grams. Works great so far.

Adrian A said:

...I have lost several rockets with trackers, though only the RDF variety so far.

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All of my experience with RDF is with the Rocket Hunter/Com-spec system that our club has. I have never lost a rocket with it yet, despite being without signal for an hour or more and finally getting a faint one just barely distinguishable from the background. The Com-spec is 100 mW CW with a custom receiver, and while it's considerably pricier than what you could use for the BRB, I wonder how much more effective it is, especially if you are using a low-end scanner with the BRB.

https://www.bigredbee.com/comparison.htm

WillMarchant said:

I prefer the Beeline tracker and GPS offerings. I already have ham gear for the ground segment. The BigRedBee stuff is pretty small and seems reasonably priced to me. Plus it can change frequencies in case of interference.

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I'm with Will, I love my BeelineTX. I wasn't sure of its usefulness until one time when I launched my Norad and totally lost sight of it... the Beeline led me straight to the payload section, a mile away, hiding between corn rows. Now I don't fly without one. Greg's tech support is also top notch, I had some issues with a really old Beeline GPS that he fixed for the cost of return shipping. That thing has spoiled me beyond belief with its usefulness -- it's made me much more confident putting up higher altitude shots in the tree/corn-laden midwest.

Well, the Com-Spec stuff is also very nice. And the receiver with the fold out wings is tre cool!

I own and use BeeLine equipment, though I really like the L&L Electronics offerings, primarily due to how incredibly small they are -- a BeeLine in a 29mm rocket is a challenge. An L&L transmitter fits easily.

The big advantage the BeeLine stuff has over L&L is cost -- you can have a complete setup for under $200 with BeeLine.

The Garmin Astro offerings never impressed me -- far too much bulk to them.

-Kevin

mikec said:

All of my experience with RDF is with the Rocket Hunter/Com-spec system that our club has. I have never lost a rocket with it yet, despite being without signal for an hour or more and finally getting a faint one just barely distinguishable from the background. The Com-spec is 100 mW CW with a custom receiver, and while it's considerably pricier than what you could use for the BRB, I wonder how much more effective it is, especially if you are using a low-end scanner with the BRB.

https://www.bigredbee.com/comparison.htm

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I've used the low power BRB TX, though have been hunting with folks with Comspec/RocktHunter gear. Like others, the BRB has saved my rocket numerous times - I won't fly a big rocket without it. Actually even though the BRB is low power and I use a homemade yagi (<$10) and a bottom of the line Yaesu handheld, it works quite well, sometimes better than others with the more expensive gear. I've tracked rockets to as far as 1.5 miles away, though I suspect it could be farther depending on terrain and some idea what general direction to start out. Takes a bit of practice, and won't ever be as easy as GPS, however some folks in our club have had mixed results with GPS not getting a lock and transmitting back.

Highpowerrocketyahoo said:

Want some opinions, which type of tracking systems do everyone use and why? Advantages/disadvantages?

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The Mark 1 Eyeball. :wink:

My com spec is an insurance plan. I have a receiver and 2 transmitters. They work well.

I added 2 L&L Electronics transmitters. They make a different tone but the range seems longer. They are also much smaller.

Ok so the BRB stuff is a complete setup for about $200+ and all I need for that is a ham license right?

And LL is what? Small sounds good to me...lol

L&L Electronics.

Highpowerrocketyahoo said:

Ok so the BRB stuff is a complete setup for about $200+ and all I need for that is a ham license right?

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Roughly, depends on what you use on the ground.

The cost is $85 for a transmitter, battery, and charger/USB interface, $100-150 for a reasonable radio, and $50-60 for an antenna if you don't build your own. See https://www.bigredbee.com/radios.htm for more details. You may be able to find a used radio or scanner.

cwbullet said:

L&L Electronics.

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Sweet thx bro

mikec said:

Roughly, depends on what you use on the ground.

The cost is $85 for a transmitter, battery, and charger/USB interface, $100-150 for a reasonable radio, and $50-60 for an antenna if you don't build your own. See https://www.bigredbee.com/radios.htm for more details. You may be able to find a used radio or scanner.

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eBay and you can drop that radio price in half.

-Kevin

I've used both the Com-spec and the Garmin Astro. I don't really know what the range is on the Garmin, but I did get it to lock after going through mach.

The Com-spec saved me my 4" rocket on it's first flight. It took me about 6 hrs to find it.... 3 miles away.


JD

an additional benefit to a tracker that requires a ham license is you can you your handheld transceiver to talk to others with ham licenses for range communications

mikec said:

Roughly, depends on what you use on the ground.

The cost is $85 for a transmitter, battery, and charger/USB interface, $100-150 for a reasonable radio, and $50-60 for an antenna if you don't build your own. See https://www.bigredbee.com/radios.htm for more details. You may be able to find a used radio or scanner.

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That's really good! It's less than half the price that I was expecting to see for such a system.

SteveF said:

an additional benefit to a tracker that requires a ham license is you can you your handheld transceiver to talk to others with ham licenses for range communications

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Good point!

Ok so the BRB900? Needs the ham license right? Seems like a good deal.

the big red bee 900MHz unit does not need a ham license - the other big red bee units do

I know this might sound crazy, but what about this idea for tracking:::

Install Google Latitude Maps on two smartphones and enable it.
Launch one in the rocket and leave the other phone in your possession.
Assuming both phones have a data plan, use Google Latitude to find
the location of your rocket.

The phone in the rocket will broadcast its location and the phone in your
hand will be logged into Google Latitude to see exactly where its located.
Within a reasonable range.

For example, here is my location inside my house right now. As you can
see, its pretty accurate. So if my phone was inside a rocket right now,
I likely should be able to find it.

The only downside, is you need 2 phones with cell service. So if you have
to borrow the wife's phone and something bad happens, she might not be
too happy.

A club member has had 100% success with L&L, including help me recover a 20k shot that landed 6+ miles away in a ravine, and we found it 4 days later. After we got signal we walked right to it. He generally flies 54mm minimum diameter and has found every one.

I've had 100% success with the Garmin Astro and DC20. Both L3 boosts were over 25k, and I was on the flight line rocket in hand 1 hour later. This past Memorial Day I flew to 10k, apogee deploy and walked to the rocket 3 miles away, no sweat.

Edward

Alby said:

I know this might sound crazy, but what about this idea for tracking:::

Install Google Latitude Maps on two smartphones and enable it.

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FCC regs don't allow flying telephones.

And -- to summarize a bunch of earlier posts.

Complete BRB900 GPS both transmitter and receiver (no License req'd) is $299, but requires a computer for some sort for a display. Add $69 for the display.

BeeLine Transmitter setup (RDF) is just $85, but you need to supply the receiver (and a ham license)

70CM BLGPS transmitters start at $285 or so, but you need to provide the receive solution (and a license is req'd as well).

The biggest difference between the 900 Mhz and the 70cm setup is the range. (70cm is about 2-3x better than the 900 system).

Greg

So what is the range on the 900 unit? I understand this can vary based on topographical environments but I was looking for just a generalization. So
Many choices! I understand the ham licensing process is relatively simple but I was trying to avoid it, other than rocketry I have no interest in it's use, just me. But if a better system required it I might bend. I guess that's why so far the BRB900 system is appealing although I will have to check range first. I want to expand my HPR scope but won't do it without a tracker..... Thanks to all in advance for the advice btw!!!

Highpowerrocketyahoo said:

So what is the range on the 900 unit?

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The module manufacturer (Digi) says 6 miles for 1% error rate. Fading because of bad antenna orientation may reduce that, but since the transmitter is airborne you should get better range and a higher error rate would be acceptable (all you need is one good coord sometime close to landing). With this or any tracking solution you should plan on losing the signal after landing unless your launch area is very flat.