Why is the [Restricted]Research thread only allowed to US members?
Just a guess, but ITAR and export restrictions come to mind.
Just a guess, but ITAR and export restrictions come to mind.
This forum always walks on the safe side of the street and rarely if ever venture into areas that might create a problem real or imagined. I don't know if any government secrets are being shared in the research section. However, I do wonder why the restriction to L1 and above. I have little interest in doing research but, I do have an interest to learn about the subject.
I tend to agree that this is a relatively 'safe' forum, and I'm ok with that. I am also interested in some of the research / ex motors, but if I wanted to know badly enough, I'm quite positive a quick Google search could find any information I wanted.
Let's level with our Canadian friends. We just can't trust them because they insist on maintaining a relationship with the Royal Crown of Great Britain. Damn Redcoats! :wink:
GB wanted to give us Canada after one of out little wars with them. We turned them down because there's nothing up there but cold.
(some of the nicest folks I've met have been from Canada.)
Why is the [Restricted]Research thread only allowed to US members?
"nothing but cold"...don't forget, we gave you Justin Bieber.
We forgive you Beiber as you also have us Rush, Triumph, and Saga.
I thought about posting the technical aspects of ITAR, but realized it would take more time than I have to post and respond... :eyeroll:
We forgive you Beiber as you also have us Rush, Triumph, and Saga.
I looked it up, not a light read. If anyone knows, it would be nice to know the specific points in the ITAR that apply to the discussion?
Note that Propellants and constituent materials have an EAR classification of 1C111
But Bryan Adams and Céline Dion are unforgivable....
Yes
As I stated, an export covers the physical item itself, Software for the items, technical data on that item (such as drawings, specs, instructions, or process information on how to make the item.
So if the section covers what chemicals to use, what temperature/pressures need to be used, how to mix the chemicals, etc it contains process information on how to make it and/or technical data on the propellant. Therefore that data requires an export license.
Also as a quick note - if you as a buddy on the field (say of an URRG launch) share this type of info with someone attending a launch to a non-US citizen (say someone from Canada), you are still doing an export and could be held accountable (fines/jail) if you do so without an export license
There are very few people in Canada actually pursuing research motor making anyway. As far as ITAR concerns, didn't TRA have research flights In Canada at LDRS24? I wasn't there unfortunately.
As far as I am aware, CAR currently has no research support. I think the reason is that there simply aren't enough people interested and willing to jump through the regulatory hoops. The regulations are sufficiently difficult to stop most people. The Explosives Regulatory Division of Natural Resources Canada oversees this. It is time consuming and costly to meet the criteria needed to make research motors. Since CAR doesn't actively support it, a person is on their own to get authorizations to launch the motors. I only am aware of one person in Canada who has done all of this and did make APCP motors. I am not sure if he is currently active. He has obtained authorizations to launch in the past as well. There is a well known Canadian sugar propellant evangelist. I am not certain that his work happens in Canada. I've known of a few people who did make sugar motors in Canada but I am not aware of the legality of their pursuits. They did this a long time ago.
I don't believe that any manufacturers held back research motor making. In fact, RCS Rocket Motor Components is a part of Aerotech.
AP isn't easy to get in Canada. We have our own version of the Department of State. Running afoul of the Canadian Controlled Goods Regulations can get someone into really nasty trouble here.
I don't have the proper location to pursue research motor making. I would love to do so. I've purchased several books on the topic, including Experimental Composite Propellant. I understand that it makes sense to restrict the research section to U.S. persons. It at least has the appearance of controlling the information flow.
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