Can we talk about glues?

I'm seeing a few guys using wood glues and epoxies for basic construction. I've noticed some wood glues like TitebondIII and Gorilla wood glue have psi strengths that rival some 30min epoxies. Can you tell me if you use both and/or have some construction suggestions?
Thanks

I think I'll stick around and watch this thread.

That bad huh? lol

SgtCarter said:

That bad huh? lol

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It's not "Bad", it simply will get "Exciting" is all.
A lot of folks here are very opinionated in the realm of the Adhesives used for constructing Rockets.
That said, it will also likely be quite educational, so I'll be watching it too.

It's kinda that bad. Epoxy is actually weaker than wood glue on wood/cardboard rockets, but both work well. Some people definitely prefer epoxy, some prefer wood glue, but really both work. Fiberglass rockets are another story, however.

I see the market is quite saturated with brands A-Z. I'm hoping to get on the right track.

SgtCarter said:

That bad huh? lol

Click to expand...

Nah, not a bit. We all love a good glue thread ! And better yet, no (or hardly any ? ) wrong answers. For myself, I have used white glue, wood glue, and 30 minute hobby store epoxy to build paper and wood airframes up to Level 1. My paper and wood Level 2 (LOC Doorknob) is on the workbench now and I plan to use Titebond II as the primary adhesive. I like polyurethane glue for it's longer working time and no grab for paper couplers and motor mounts. I used medium CA on an Aerotech Barracuda per the manufacturer's (and designer's) instructions. The specific model, intended flight charateristics, recovery surface conditions may dictate a specific type of constuction method. I'm sure you'll find many passionate partisans will weigh in here.

So, whatcha buildin' ?

FYI... If you scroll to te bottom of this thread you'll see a list of similar threads.

Welcome new guy!

I use TitebondII on most every wood to wood, cardboard to wood, paper to wood, etc. bond. It has never- as in the bond breaks, not the material- failed me. When working on a glassine layer- I put the fin in the slot (or in it's assigned place) and trace around it. then, using a razor and great care, cut through the glassine layer and only the glassine layer to expose the more fibrous layers underneath. I often sand the root of larger fins with 120 grit to open it up a bit before bonding. Then, in the case of larger, devotedly HPR rockets, I will often use Rockeepoxy (my epoxy of choice) to fillet the joint. If it is a fin, it will definitely get a fillet. That's how I use wood glue

I use Rocketpoxy as my go to for epoxy. I use it when bonding composites (Fiberglass, carbon fiber, kevlar, etc). Always. Epoxy is the only way to go. I also use it when bonding 2 very different materials. ie, the fins in Estes Nike Smoke are plastic, but the CRs that they mount into are wood. IMHO epoxy is the best option here. Plastics get sanded with 60 or 120 grit, cleaned with rubbing alcohol, and wood gets a sanding if needed (I find laser cut parts seem to be sealed along the cut lines, so I like to sand them a bit to open them up.) Same deal with metals. Sand with 60 grit, and epoxy. Also, Like I said above, I also regularly use epoxy in a reinforcement application. ie, in my Madcow 4" Pike, the motor mount assembly is built with wood glue, but filleted with rocketpoxy. I find myself using this wherever a bit of extra insurance feels needed. It is also the threadlocker of all threadlockers. A little dab on the end of a threaded rod will keep a nut on there forever.

I use superglue (CA) mainly in temporary or supporting applications. When bonding fiberglass, I will sometimes tack the parts with CA before filleting with epoxy, or in the case of rockets like Wildman's minis, the motor mount can be asembled mostly with CA, as the through the wall fins can bear the brunt of the force. I also use it on av-bays for tacking things in place. With wood, some wood glue along the bond joint, and a dot of CA at either end. That way, the wood glue can form a strong bond, but the CA grabs so I can keep working on other parts.

Those are the main ones for me. I occasionally use hot glue, but that's usually a temporary application. ie, a bond that must be easily broken later.

Nate

samb said:

Nah, not a bit. We all love a good glue thread ! And better yet, no (or hardly any ? ) wrong answers. For myself, I have used white glue, wood glue, and 30 minute hobby store epoxy to build paper and wood airframes up to Level 1. My paper and wood Level 2 (LOC Doorknob) is on the workbench now and I plan to use Titebond II as the primary adhesive. I like polyurethane glue for it's longer working time and no grab for paper couplers and motor mounts. I used medium CA on an Aerotech Barracuda per the manufacturer's (and designer's) instructions. The specific model, intended flight charateristics, recovery surface conditions may dictate a specific type of constuction method. I'm sure you'll find many passionate partisans will weigh in here.

So, whatcha buildin' ?

FYI... If you scroll to te bottom of this thread you'll see a list of similar threads.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure...so many choices. I've got my launch gear ready to move into MPR.

SgtCarter said:

I'm seeing a few guys using wood glues and epoxies for basic construction. I've noticed some wood glues like TitebondIII and Gorilla wood glue have psi strengths that rival some 30min epoxies. Can you tell me if you use both and/or have some construction suggestions?
Thanks

Click to expand...

I am partial to Titebond II (TB2), but I grew up helping my father in his woodshop and that's what he used, so I'm a bit biased. That being said, I haven't found it lacking in paper / cardboard rocket construction. This is my primary glue.

Sometimes TB2 will seize when spread very thin, like when gluing couplers into tubes. I've actually never experienced this, but knowing how fast TB2 can set, I can easily see it happening. In this case, I have a bottle of Gorilla PVA glue. PVA cures instead of dries so it shouldn't seize up in this case. I've used it a few times and it works. Not really much else to say.

For small plastic / plastic or plastic / wood I use whatever bottle of liquid CA I have at the moment. This is also useful for sealing balsa, strengthening paper, securing small eye screws, etc.

Lastly I have a bottle of Titebond Molding and Trim Glue (TMTG) that I use for LPR fillets. Mostly this is useful because it doesn't drip anywhere near as bad as TB2, so you can work around the entire rocket.

Haven't gotten into epoxies heavily yet, so I won't comment other than to say Rocketpoxy, Aeropoxy, US Composites, and West Systems are pretty popular on this board.

Glues in my inventory include:

Super Thin CA
Thin CA
Medium CA
Thick CA
Plastic CA
Elmers Glue All (white)
TiteBondII (yellow)
SigBond (yellow)
5-Min Epoxy
15-Min Epoxy
30-Min Epoxy
JB-Weld

They all have different uses... (and I use them all)

KidRockET said:

Glues in my inventory include:

Super Thin CA
Thin CA
Medium CA
Thick CA
Plastic CA
Elmers Glue All (white)
TiteBondII (yellow)
SigBond (yellow)
5-Min Epoxy
15-Min Epoxy
30-Min Epoxy
JB-Weld

They all have different uses... (and I use them all)

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Good list! I too am a big fan of experimenting with them all to learn why they each have their place, and where and when.
Here's what I've got on hand currently:

Super Thin CA
Thin CA
Medium CA
Gorilla Glue CA

Titebond No Run No Drip Trim and Molding
TiteBondII (yellow)
Titebond III
15-Min Epoxy
20-Min Epoxy
JB-Weld
PC Metal
PC Faherheit
Duco Cement, which I have not used yet, but will experiment with eventually.
I'll likely go look for Youtube Videos about it before I even open the Tube to learn about it first, like I do with any new Chemical or similar "Thing I have no Experience with".

[video=youtube;7WAwuSK36Gw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WAwuSK36Gw&feature=player_embedded[/video]

If you are building paper and wood, there really is no better glue than wood glue. I prefer Titebond II myself. I like the nontoxic aspect and being able to touch it with my fingers if I need to is a huge plus. It dries unbelievably fast when clamped correctly, it doesn't stink, easy to sand, crazy strong, and it's lighter than anything else. And if all that isn't enough, if you are anal like me you can clean up any messes before the glue sets for a neat and tidy professional look.

SgtCarter said:

That bad huh? lol

Click to expand...

It's bad... Pretty bad... I was trying to stick it to you, but apparently my pun lacked the cohesion to cement the meaning firmly.

If you build rockets, then you share the common bond with all of us who have stuck around.

CA Ya!
Jim

Glues and Adhesives have to be matched to the materials being joined and final application. Their is NO one size fits all glue or adhesive that is completely compatible with every issue or job.

As others have said. White and Yellow wood glues are chemically better for use on All wood products. paper, Cardboard, phenolics and of coarse Woods.
There are all kinds of adhesives designed for particular types of Plastics. where epoxies may or may not be suitable.

There are many epoxies out there, all with very specific chemistry and applications. Not all are suitable or useable in our rockets for various reasons.

Best advise is to research and learn as much as you can about each and every glue, adhesive and epoxies you wish to use.
Look at the physical properties.
Experiment with the various materials and joining agents (glues and adhesives) you'll find which ones work best for you and your material combinations.

Read reviews, but and I say again; Do not take the Views of others as Gospel. Relay on your own experiments and tests over things you read on this or any other website. There is a huge amount of mis-information out there touted as truth or the best. Trust your tests.

One thing perhaps we can get universal agreement on (or not)
If and when you do used epoxy, you should always wear gloves, and not latex gloves either, but nitrile gloves.
Also should always use epoxy with good ventilation as the fumes are toxic.
Here is a thread on epoxy safety. https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ty-techniques-for-Epoxy&p=1219676#post1219676
If you are working with younger kids, probably best to stick with white or wood glue

white and yellow glues shrink when they dry and neither of them are much good a filling gaps (epoxy is does a better job at tolerating gaps).
Rex

Thanks for all the advice guys, It's been sometime since I've flown Estes BP in the 70's. The industry has grown a little!

I use Testors cement glue for construction of model rockets. My suggestion is that I would ask someone in a hobby shop for suggestions on glues. Each model rocket might be different. I hope my advice is helpful.

Xan

For those hard to glue materials (e.g.plastics) you might want to add an MMA Adhesive to your collection.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mma+adhesive