Oh God, Another Glue Thread...

[jqavins]

but this time with, I hope, a narrow topic that there's a small but noticeable chance we will stay on.

Is there really any difference between the various yellow PVA glues for our purposes? There are many brands and products - Elmers, TB 1, 2, and 3, Gorilla, and no doubt many more. And they have somewhat different characteristics, with some being more alike than others. But despite their differences, they all have the important things in common, but for one or two points. First, TB Quick and Thick is thick, like it says on the bottle. Good for fillets because it's better than the others at staying put, and possibly not as good for construction. Second, there might be some low quality cheapo brands out there that I have not encountered. Other than that:

• They're all stronger than the wood, paper, and cardboard we use them to stick together; many glue threads have made this clear as the reason that epoxy is not necessary in LP construction. Let's not go into epoxy here.
• They all harden by evaporation, and therefore shrink.
• They're all grabby.
• They all take paint well.

So does it really matter at all which one one picks up from the shelf?

 

[mh9162013]

The different versions of Titebond have some notable differences, like waterproof/weatherproofness and overall strength.

For LPR purposes (which is all I build right now), the only notable difference I care about in my (wood) glues is how thick the glue is and how little it shrinks when it dries. So that's why I use Titebond Quick and Thick for fillets.

 

[lakeroadster]

They all have specifications. I compiled this list, FWIW.

I use Gorilla Wood Glue for structural and Titebond Quick & Thick for "Pretty" final layers of fillets.

​

 

[user 30299]

but this time with, I hope, a narrow topic that there's a small but noticeable chance we will stay on.

Is there really any difference between the various yellow PVA glues for our purposes? There are many brands and products - Elmers, TB 1, 2, and 3, Gorilla, and no doubt many more. And they have somewhat different characteristics, with some being more alike than others. But despite their differences, they all have the important things in common, but for one or two points. First, TB Quick and Thick is thick, like it says on the bottle. Good for fillets because it's better than the others at staying put, and possibly not as good for construction. Second, there might be some low quality cheapo brands out there that I have not encountered. Other than that:

• They're all stronger than the wood, paper, and cardboard we use them to stick together; many glue threads have made this clear as the reason that epoxy is not necessary in LP construction. Let's not go into epoxy here.
• They all harden by evaporation, and therefore shrink.
• They're all grabby.
• They all take paint well.

So does it really matter at all which one one picks up from the shelf?

Pretty much any name brand that says "wood glue" you're good to go.

The key is proper prep of the surfaces you're bonding. Do a good prep - get a good bond.

 

[Hobie1dog]

It all looks the same, therefore it is.

 

[user 30299]

It all looks the same, therefore it is.

Hmmm. Do you think they taste the same too?

 

[lakeroadster]

Hmmm. Do you think they taste the same too?

I've inadvertently tasted Gorilla Wood Glue, when I used a straw to access deep items that need gluing.... it's pretty nasty.

 

[jqavins]

They all have specifications. I compiled this list, FWIW.

I use Gorilla Wood Glue for structural and Titebond Quick & Thick for "Pretty" final layers of fillets.

View attachment 605718​

Yeah, the existence if differences was part of the original post. The point of the question is "Do any of those differences matter (for LPR), leaving aside Q&T." I've long thought that the answer is "No", and I'd like to hear the reasons for any other opinions, if anybody has any.

The key is proper prep of the surfaces you're bonding. Do a good prep - get a good bond.

Yes, of course, but it's not "how to glue" advice I'm looking for.

 

[user 30299]

Yeah, the existence if differences was part of the original post. The point of the question is "Do any of those differences matter (for LPR), leaving aside Q&T." I've long thought that the answer is "No", and I'd like to hear the reasons for any other opinions, if anybody has any.


Yes, of course, but it's not "how to glue" advice I'm looking for.

For me, none of these differences matter.

All these glues have similar end performances.

What you choose, how you use it, and how you apply it is all personal preference.

I don't have five different brands of wood glue sitting on the shelf. I have one brand, one type from
that brand, and it works fine for low power, mid power and some high power applications.

 

[neil_w]

I don't think it matters all that much, beyond a few basic guidelines, most of which have been covered above.

1) Quick and Thick is good for fillets. Not because it doesn't shrink a lot, but because it stays put, bubbles less, *and* it enables thick fillets to dry completely. A thick fillet of TBII will skin over and then stay wet underneath for a *long* time. Not as good for bonding (I think) because it's so thick it is less likely to flow into nooks and crannies (which is why I always start with a *thin* fillet of TB2 before hitting it with the Q&T)

2) Different formulations have some different properties that make them more or less useful in different situations. TB3 is waterproof... for rockets I don't care. TB2 is one of the faster at grabbing... great for fin attachment but lousy for motor mounts and couplers and such. Etc.

Beyond the above, it's personal preference. For me, it's TBII for most construction tasks, Elmer's Glue-all or epoxy when I don't want it to seize (although Elmer's can still seize under the right circumstances!), Q&T for fillets. That covers me pretty well for wood-and-paper construction.

 

[Wrightme43]

The only thing I want to add is moisture resistance. I use titebond III because that is what I use on hand washable food safe woodworking projects. I occasionally use II but only for things that stay completely dry. If you might get it wet, titebond III is the best.

 

[neil_w]

The only thing I want to add is moisture resistance. I use titebond III because that is what I use on hand washable food safe woodworking projects. I occasionally use II but only for things that stay completely dry. If you might get it wet, titebond III is the best.

I think that outside of special circumstances, the extra waterproofness of TB3 is not going to matter. I've had at least one rocket built with TBII go swimming, and the glue was completely unaffected, because I got it out of the water within a few minutes. I think TB3 is of most benefit for *prolonged* exposure to water. If you fly somewhere where water touchdowns are likely, and you can't always get the rockets out quickly, then it might be a benefit. Just MHO.

 

[BEC]

I don't think it matters all that much, beyond a few basic guidelines, most of which have been covered above.

1) Quick and Thick is good for fillets. Not because it doesn't shrink a lot, but because it stays put, bubbles less, *and* it enables thick fillets to dry completely. A thick fillet of TBII will skin over and then stay wet underneath for a *long* time. Not as good for bonding (I think) because it's so thick it is less likely to flow into nooks and crannies (which is why I always start with a *thin* fillet of TB2 before hitting it with the Q&T)

2) Different formulations have some different properties that make them more or less useful in different situations. TB3 is waterproof... for rockets I don't care. TB2 is one of the faster at grabbing... great for fin attachment but lousy for motor mounts and couplers and such. Etc.

Beyond the above, it's personal preference. For me, it's TBII for most construction tasks, Elmer's Glue-all or epoxy when I don't want it to seize (although Elmer's can still seize under the right circumstances!), Q&T for fillets. That covers me pretty well for wood-and-paper construction.

I generally follow this same plan with one exception: Alleene's Tacky Glue (a craft glue) for motor mounts and couplers where I'm worried about potential seizure during installation.

Also, it's a good single glue for group builds of models like Alphas as it's "good enough" for all wood-paper joints for a model that is likely not going to see dozens of flights. I haven't built anything with just Alleene's and flown it enough to see if it holds up long term for retaining fins and launch lugs. I do have models built with Alleene's used on motor mounts/couplers with dozens of flights with no issue.

Building for myself, I otherwise also do as Neil outlined.

But Alleene's isn't a "wood glue" so it's a little out of scope here. Sorry 'bout that, Joe....

 

[jqavins]

Well, I guess my question is answered, and it's the answer I expected.

As for water resistance, TB II or III, tI hink either glue will probably last longer than the cardboard body tube upon extended exposure. And as for grabbing, when I'm really concerned about it I use epoxy.

[/thread]

 

[Infamous]

Glue has been around long time now.

 

[Dotini]

Glue has been around long time now.

I'll call your Sumerian, and raise you one Neanderthal.

Glue, foundational to our beloved hobby, appears now to have been invented 40,000 years ago by Neanderthals. So we are all at least motivationally descended from these like-minded, glue-sniffing knuckle-draggers. Who would have thunk it?

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publ...e--researchers-find-evidence-that-sticks.html

 

[Antares JS]

Also, it's a good single glue for group builds of models like Alphas as it's "good enough" for all wood-paper joints for a model that is likely not going to see dozens of flights. I haven't built anything with just Alleene's and flown it enough to see if it holds up long term for retaining fins and launch lugs. I do have models built with Alleene's used on motor mounts/couplers with dozens of flights with no issue.

I have rockets that I built in the 90's with Aleene's tacky glue, and they are holding up just fine. I only bother with wood glue (it's runnier and therefore more annoying to work with) for MPR's and HPR's, LPR's just get put together with tacky glue.

 

[PhilC]

Glue, foundational to our beloved hobby, appears now to have been invented 40,000 years ago by Neanderthals. So we are all at least motivationally descended from these like-minded, glue-sniffing knuckle-draggers. Who would have thunk it?

Why did Neanderthals need glue? Rockets hadn’t been invented yet. Perhaps they invented glue so they had something to argue about.

 

[BMcD]

In my experience, A's TG will grab a coupler just like any of the others.

 

[David Schwantz]

I never use glue!

 

[NTP2]

I'll call your Sumerian, and raise you one Neanderthal.

Glue, foundational to our beloved hobby, appears now to have been invented 40,000 years ago by Neanderthals. So we are all at least motivationally descended from these like-minded, glue-sniffing knuckle-draggers. Who would have thunk it?

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publ...e--researchers-find-evidence-that-sticks.html

so, anyone want to make a rocket with bitumen?

 

[BEC]

I have rockets that I built in the 90's with Aleene's tacky glue, and they are holding up just fine. I only bother with wood glue (it's runnier and therefore more annoying to work with) for MPR's and HPR's, LPR's just get put together with tacky glue.

Good to know. Thanks.

In my experience, A's TG will grab a coupler just like any of the others.

If the dry fit is tight, there is nothing that won't grab (well, maybe epoxy, I suppose — I haven't tried that). But compared to Titebond or even Elmer's, Alleene's Tacky Glue (NOT their "turbo") is more forgiving in that regard, in my experience.

 

[neil_w]

Good to know. Thanks.

If the dry fit is tight, there is nothing that won't grab (well, maybe epoxy, I suppose — I haven't tried that).

Not only does epoxy not grab, it acts like a very viscous lubricant, making it easier to slide the components together (until it starts curing, at least). I’m usually lazy and make do with white or yellow glues but for stuff like tight couplers epoxy is the best.

 

[Cape Byron]

Why did Neanderthals need glue? Rockets hadn’t been invented yet. Perhaps they invented glue so they had something to argue about.

So they invented glue, then internet forums, then the wheel.

Got it.

Give me a crayon - I have some history texts to annotate.

 

[lr64]

I think some of these glues, possibly all, can be softened with heat if you need to move something. Definitely with garden variety epoxy. Also, with Titebond, at least, you can let it dry in a smooth layer and then stick something on it with an iron.

When it comes to gaps, epoxy is very good. I'm not so sure about the others. You can mix things with the glue to thicken it. If you add fumed silica, cotton flox, or similar, it probably makes the glue stiffer and stronger.

 

[bjphoenix]

Another glue thread? Well give me some credit- I had a question recently about glue but instead of starting a new thread I did some forum searching and found a few answers that might help me in the future.

 

[4regt4]

I generally follow this same plan with one exception: Alleene's Tacky Glue (a craft glue) for motor mounts and couplers where I'm worried about potential seizure during installation.

Also, it's a good single glue for group builds of models like Alphas as it's "good enough" for all wood-paper joints for a model that is likely not going to see dozens of flights. I haven't built anything with just Alleene's and flown it enough to see if it holds up long term for retaining fins and launch lugs. I do have models built with Alleene's used on motor mounts/couplers with dozens of flights with no issue.

Building for myself, I otherwise also do as Neil outlined.

But Alleene's isn't a "wood glue" so it's a little out of scope here. Sorry 'bout that, Joe....

I sometimes initially tack on surface mount fins with Alleene's, but do the fillets with epoxy. And that's only because I find it easier to get a "pretty" fillet and the cure time is predictable. Otherwise I wouldn't necessarily prefer it to wood glue. (I've made a mess doing fillets with Quick and Thick. Yes, it's all in technique, and my technique using it is apparently poor. Because done right and they look nice.)

I wouldn't have thought that Tacky Glue would be good for couplers, as the name includes "Tacky", which intuitively makes me think it would grab. Might have to try it.

I have a bottle each of Titebond I and Titebond II. As far as using them, I can't tell the difference.

Hans.