Will someone please make a cheap SCREW ON 38mm retainer!?!?!

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Green Jello

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
2,386
Reaction score
21
Aero Pack products are really nice, and I just ordered my third one of these for $35 (shipped)

api-38.jpg

Why can't someone or some company make a 38mm version of the Estes retainer?

est9750.jpg

They are made of strong plastic that can handle the heat of low level 38mm motors.

I know this kind is cheap, but I really prefer screw on.


P-188-2.jpg

:bang:
 
I make my own retainers for less than a dollar each. It is possible to fly a rocket without an aeropack retainer, believe it or not.
 
I quit ordering the complete base and cap for $30 and just buy caps for $15 now.
 
I've flown some of the 6 grain 38mm reloads that got quite hot. I feel plastic would be inadequate for them.

...which doesn't really answer your question why someone doesn't make them in plastic, does it? Sorry.

It's possible the couple of designs out there have already cornered what is a small market to begin with. And I know plastic molds are not cheap, $5,000 to $10,000, even when sourced from Mexico or China.


All the best, James
 
I've flown some of the 6 grain 38mm reloads that got quite hot. I feel plastic would be inadequate for them.

...which doesn't really answer your question why someone doesn't make them in plastic, does it? Sorry.

It's possible the couple of designs out there have already cornered what is a small market to begin with. And I know plastic molds are not cheap, $5,000 to $10,000, even when sourced from Mexico or China.


All the best, James

Well, both of those issues may very well be the reason. I just love those Estes 29mm ones that end up being about $3.00 each.
 
why don't you just use the picture clips? Hit up Qquake, I think he makes his own out of aluminum.....you may find the clips at Lowes. put T-nuts in the centering ring, and screw down the clips to hold the casing in.

And I'm no sure when you say "can't someone make a screw on retainers?".....Aeropack's are screw on. Or are you just saying you'd prefer a cheaper option like the estes retainers? *EDIT* I re-read and think you just mean a cheaper retainer. Anyway, see my first sentence.
 
why don't you just use the picture clips? Hit up Qquake, I think he makes his own out of aluminum.....you may find the clips at Lowes. put T-nuts in the centering ring, and screw down the clips to hold the casing in.

And I'm no sure when you say "can't someone make a screw on retainers?".....Aeropack's are screw on. Or are you just saying you'd prefer a cheaper option like the estes retainers? *EDIT* I re-read and think you just mean a cheaper retainer. Anyway, see my first sentence.

Yeah, I mean a cheaper option to the AeroPack. I know clips are the cheapest option, but I like how screw ons are fast and don't require tools.
 
Why don't they exist? Because the volume isn't there.

AeroPac would probably come down some if the volume went up, but I doubt it would be a huge amount.

And you'd have to sell a metric >ahem< load of plastic ones at $3 each to pay off the cost of having an injection mold made. 10 years ago, a friend who designs molds said small molds are $5,000 - $10,000 each.
 
Go to Home Depot and pick up a life time supply of motor retainers for around five bucks, Aluminum duct tape works great to around mach 2.
 
14 minutes to figure out and make..
1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg

Other sprinklers might be less work and better. This what I had laying around.

Tony
 
Baddazzrocketry has a retainer coming out. Cheap? I think depends on the definition.
 
Checkout your local plumbing supply, union nuts come in a variety of sizes. Your local pool supply might have have them as well.
 
There are a number of items that a customer has to consider to justify tooling dollars. Since mold building ( actually technical sales) is how I make a living, I can speak volumes to tooling costs.

When it comes to the screw on retainers that Estes offers, they could justify a tooling cost as they not only develop there new rockets around them ( all pro series are 29mm) they also saw a market place outside of just there rockets that could use them. Every new rocket they release helps that Capital investment further pay for itself. Based on that success is why they added 24mm. Again they make a number of kits with 24mm mounts and they can fit on other kits produced by other manufactures.

While I assume they had tooling built in China for these, I can guarantee you the cost for both molds was nowhere near $10,000.00. The cap has to have an unscrewing core in it to remove part from core. The notches on bottom of cap keep the part from spinning in the mold. Part is thick-walled and more than likely a multi cavity to get piece price down as low as they are. The part that goes on motor mount requires a mold that has 2 side actions plus the main open and close of mold and again probably a mutti cavity mold to drive piece price lower.

I don't think they are using PVC as the material based on cost of parts and PVC resin when it is being injection molded would break down the tool quickly due to the corrosive gases in it during molding process.

If the threaded cap was a 2 cavity mold , I would bet average china price is $15,000 to $18,000 a tool built in US would be $25,000.00 to $35,000.00 depending on option included in mold.

If the part we put on motor mount tube was a 2 cavity tool , China price is probably $12,000 to $14,000 a US tool would be $22,000.00 to $28,000.00 again depending on options.

That just gets you the molds to make parts, now you have to mold parts - which means resin costs, press rates, and operator rates, packaging, and quality control costs all need to be factored in. If I was to guess Estes probably has an EAU of less than 100,000 units so that has to be factored in to your justification cost model.

Based on that I doubt you will see 38mm options offered by anyone unless Estes decides to produce 38mm kits, which if John is reading I would welcome.
 
Baddazzrocketry has a retainer coming out. Cheap? I think depends on the definition.

I have seen some pics of those and I am looking forward to seeing them on market. As you mentioned definition of cheap is different to all. I don't know Eric's prices but I would bet they'll compete or beat Aeropack retainers.

I love the look of a machined component on a rocket, so I'm sure ill own a few when he releases.
 
Aero Pack products are really nice, and I just ordered my third one of these for $35 (shipped)

View attachment 142185

Why can't someone or some company make a 38mm version of the Estes retainer?

View attachment 142186

They are made of strong plastic that can handle the heat of low level 38mm motors.

I know this kind is cheap, but I really prefer screw on.


View attachment 142187

:bang:

C'mon dude, masking tape for friction fit, how cheap do you REALLY want it. I use tape all the time
 
C'mon dude, masking tape for friction fit, how cheap do you REALLY want it. I use tape all the time

Some places do not permit friction fit. At the sod farm we can't have them find a case with a mower and expect to keep our launch privileges.

I agree - get the base and share the cap. 30 bucks seems like a lot for an assembly but in the grand scheme of things it isn't that expensive.
 
Cave Duck and I have been looking for an alternative for the acme rail guide, besides rail buttons.

We like the conformal rail guides , but in starting to use more and more ... they are not available every where and they don't have in all tube sizes .

The buttons seem too big and awkward on an Estes , but the railgudes cut in half seem to be working.. have installed on a high flier xl and the renegade f .

Kenny
 
The retainer is really not a huge deal to begin with. Yes you need it so you don't lose your motor and expensive casing in flight. The main thing you have to consider here is the ejection charge you are using. If you are using standard motor ejection then you are going to need a bit more retaining strength since the charge on those are pretty large. Shear pins also add needed strength in the retainer. Personally, I like to use the Aero Pack. They look sleek and professional and do a great job if installed correctly. But tape and the bar retainers work too. I would be weary of using a plastic retainer because of the high heat of the motor during burn.

I'm going to stick with the metal Aero Pack... when your spending $130 + on a rocket, $30 for a retainer is not bad to keep a $50+ motor casing.
 
I quit ordering the complete base and cap for $30 and just buy caps for $15 now.
Just started doing the same thing now that I own two rockets with 38mm mounts. I agree it will get quite expensive but the heat issue could be the factor.
 
I guess it all depends on the individual. I understand the convenience of the easy screw on method. I have one of those also. But I never really minded making my own retainer clip using tee nuts & screws, a modified pipe clamp,

wire strap.jpg

and having this end result. Easy is expensive. If it means having a small screw driver on hand to tighten a clamp and time spent going the distance to fabricate my own retainer system for cheep, I'll cheep in a skinny minute.

DSCF3001.JPG
 
If you want cheap, the slimline snap-ring retainers work great (providing you don't lose the snap ring, though the're cheap to replace) or with some really basic machining experience you can make your own version for essentially free. Also, I don't know why nobody seems to use these, but the public missiles HAMR retainer is a screw-on retainer like the aeropac, but with higher quality machining, a more professional look, and for about $10 cheaper. Seriously I don't understand why people ever buy Aeropac basic retainers when the PML one is so much nicer, for slightly less.
 
Back
Top