Aerotech Releases New Single Use motors!

[Tarasdad]

Playing with this motor in OpenRocket and it looks like my Super Flash would hit about 3300 to 3600 feet (depending on whether it has altimeter and battery or not). My Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk would hit 4100! Not too shabby!

 

[rbelknap]

Looks like just the thing for our BAR Crayon rockets. Mine sims out at 1309'.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I purchased one at NARCON.

Do you have an OR/Rocksim file for the BAR crayons, or were you using the online sim on thrustcurve.org?

 

[o1d_dude]

Just a thrustcurve.org quick and dirty sim.

Java is way too insecure for me so I don't use OR.

 

[kruland]

Just a thrustcurve.org quick and dirty sim.

Java is way too insecure for me so I don't use OR.

I don't mean to derail this discussion, but OR ha no security problems. The hoopla about java security is all with java applets embedded in web pages. You can safely use java applications (like OR) and disable the java browser plugins.

Kevin

 

[o1d_dude]

I don't mean to derail this discussion, but OR ha no security problems. The hoopla about java security is all with java applets embedded in web pages. You can safely use java applications (like OR) and disable the java browser plugins.

Kevin

That is a good start but you may still have problems.

Check out the "Security Now" podcast with Steve Gibson. If you listen and follow up on his advice, you will TRUST NO ONE.

Oracle has surpassed Adobe as the least secure platform.

"Unless you use Java professionally — such as by developing Web or Android apps, updating a Website or using Adobe's Creative Suite software package — you don't really need it."

 

[o1d_dude]

I opened up my new Aerotech Pro-SU H135W motor last night and noticed a few things.

1. The new universal DAT has a much larger opening than the BP well and you have carefully thread the drill bit through the opening in the bottom of the well BEFORE you start drilling the delay.

2. The included red cap to retain the igniter is much too large to fit over the 29mm nozzle. Looks like it's more suitable for a 38mm motor.

3. The amount of BP included with the motor is a bit scant. I'm planning to fly this motor in my Bay Area Rocketry Crayon Rocket. It's a a 4" diameter tube and I normally use almost all of the BP container. Blow it out or blow it up. No failures to deploy.

 

[kruland]

Thanks for the links. I've never heard of them but gave a listen to a couple of shows. Their discussion was consistent with my understanding of these vulnerabilities. They are in the applet security sandbox and exploited through web sites. You can use java programs and disable the browser plugins.

Its fine if you choose to not use any java programs - even those you intentionally download. It should be noted that every program you download could be a problem. In fact, in the past, some commercial USB sticks had been infected with viruses. To be completely secure, you can never run any program you didn't write yourself, never load content from a network, and never use a commercial peripheral.

That is a good start but you may still have problems.

Check out the "Security Now" podcast with Steve Gibson. If you listen and follow up on his advice, you will TRUST NO ONE.

Oracle has surpassed Adobe as the least secure platform.

 

[kramer714]

I need some help from someone with a H135 SU motor. i need some dimensions fora project I'm working on. I'm assuming,

1) The O.D. of the motor is smooth no thrust ring
2) The end of the forward end is flat (nothing sticks out forward the motor tube)
3) the nozzle extends aft of the motor tube (the end of the nozzle is not inside the diameter of the case)

Can you please measure the length of the motor tube? This is the smooth O.D. motor.
Plus can you get the weight and CG of the motor? Thrust curve has the total weight as 212g.

Thanks, Mike K

 

[5x7]

You can see in post 1 the delay housing sticks out of the forward end of the motor.

I need some help from someone with a H135 SU motor. i need some dimensions fora project I'm working on. I'm assuming,

1) The O.D. of the motor is smooth no thrust ring
2) The end of the forward end is flat (nothing sticks out forward the motor tube)
3) the nozzle extends aft of the motor tube (the end of the nozzle is not inside the diameter of the case)

Can you please measure the length of the motor tube? This is the smooth O.D. motor.
Plus can you get the weight and CG of the motor? Thrust curve has the total weight as 212g.

Thanks, Mike K

 

[kramer714]

yup, noticed that after i Posted, can someone please measure the length that extends forward of the motor tube also.

Mike K

 

[o1d_dude]

I opened up my new Aerotech Pro-SU H135W motor last night and noticed a few things.

1. The new universal DAT has a much larger opening than the BP well and you have carefully thread the drill bit through the opening in the bottom of the well BEFORE you start drilling the delay.

2. The included red cap to retain the igniter is much too large to fit over the 29mm nozzle. Looks like it's more suitable for a 38mm motor.

3. The amount of BP included with the motor is a bit scant. I'm planning to fly this motor in my Bay Area Rocketry Crayon Rocket. It's a a 4" diameter tube and I normally use almost all of the BP container. Blow it out or blow it up. No failures to deploy.

Aerotech responded via Facebook on the above commentary.

In response to some comments about the H135W-14A motors on one of the rocketry forums:

The opening on the end of Universal Delay Drilling Tool is larger than the outside diameter of the ejection well on the 29mm Pro-SU motors because it was designed to accommodate several diameters of bulkheads (hint). There is also no difficulty in getting the drill into the hole in the bulkhead, this is what aligns the tool.

The red nozzle caps supplied with the first batch of motors are indeed the incorrect size, this is being corrected on current and future batches of motors.

The quantity of black power included with the H135W-14A is the same amount that is supplied with AeroTech 29 & 38mm reloads and is limited by our DOT approvals.

Item 1: Pretty much expected that as I'm looking forward to a baby J motor down the line. No big deal, you just need to "feel" the drill bit through the hole in the bottom of the BP well. I wrapped my fingers around both the DAT and SU motor body to keep everything in alignment. It worked fine.

Item 2: It was clearly a mistake. IIRC, the SU motor, BP, and igniter are packaged inside a sealed bag while the red nozzle cap is added to the cardboard tube package. Easy to see that a production error occured. Again no big deal, a strip of masking tape (old school) will do just as well.

Item 3: My A/T H and I reloads are packed with the plastic BP tube almost completely filled. The BP tube that I received with my SU motor was only half full. It is what it is. I suspect this related to the DOT regulations more than anything else. Again no big deal as I have a can of Goex "special sauce" on hand.

Let there be no confusion on this point: I wasn't complaining, simply making observations. I'm looking forward to seeing this new SU in action and down the line at what larger motors become available...particularly in the baby J range.

 

[DizWolf]

I'm just as excited as everyone else to see some bigger SU motors out there. On the other side of the coin, I'd love to see all the SU's go this way. I mainly fire off mid power, and it'd be great to be able to adjust delays on all the motors I buy, instead of having to buy multiples of each motor. Less planning on my end. Having to glue thrust rings again is a minor annoyance to gain the flexibility.

 

[o1d_dude]

I'm just as excited as everyone else to see some bigger SU motors out there. On the other side of the coin, I'd love to see all the SU's go this way. I mainly fire off mid power, and it'd be great to be able to adjust delays on all the motors I buy, instead of having to buy multiples of each motor. Less planning on my end. Having to glue thrust rings again is a minor annoyance to gain the flexibility.

We are in agreement on the SU mid power offerings. If they came standard with say a 10 or 14 second delay and were easily adjustable, everyone benefits. Fewer reloads to keep in stock, better flexibility in delays.

CA'ing (is that a word) the thrust ring in place is a easy-peasy. Takes maybe all of 20 seconds if you have the CA bottle handy. I spent more time adjusting the thrust ring and double checking it all than I did actually gluing it up.

If I didn't make it clear in my original post, I'm very impressed with the new SU motors.

 

[DizWolf]

I've got a couple of old F23's sitting by my computer I just dropped some loc tite ultra gel on last night. so its no killer, but it's just one more step. I've got to say, the thrust curve on the motor is an awesome idea.

 

[DeeRoc29]

You don't have to glue on the thrust ring. Just use masking tape. That's ALL there was for years and it worked just fine.

 

[rbelknap]

I'm planning to fly this motor in my Bay Area Rocketry Crayon Rocket. It's a a 4" diameter tube and I normally use almost all of the BP container. Blow it out or blow it up. No failures to deploy.

Kit, what did you decide to drill your delay down to? I ran a quick and dirty thrustcurve.org simulation of my crayon (guessing at the Cd, I really need to learn how figure that out.) and got a delay of 6 sec. I haven't drilled my h135 down yet, since I'm not flying until the next snow ranch launch. No need to prep THAT far in advance.

 

[o1d_dude]

I think I came up with same 6 second delay. Wrote it down the package. Might have been 8 seconds but I can always drill it out some more. One of the advantages of these new SU's, right?

 

[chadrog]

With this method of delay adjustment being acceptable for the high power loads, would this method also be acceptable for the mid power single use loads?

 

[troj]

With this method of delay adjustment being acceptable for the high power loads, would this method also be acceptable for the mid power single use loads?

That's a question for Aerotech, and the certifying organizations. Unless they bless it, I'd say the answer is No

 

[chadrog]

That's a question for Aerotech, and the certifying organizations. Unless they bless it, I'd say the answer is No

No is what I've always assumed, but this "new" method has made me wonder.

 

[qquake2k]

Just a thrustcurve.org quick and dirty sim.

Java is way too insecure for me so I don't use OR.

You don't use Open Rocket??? :confused2:

 

[jadebox]

With this method of delay adjustment being acceptable for the high power loads, would this method also be acceptable for the mid power single use loads?

While not admitting to anything, I will say that drilling down the delays that way in mid-power motors works fine.

It would be nice for consumers and retailers if Aerotech would sanction that method and provide a reliable tool for doing it. In addition to allowing you to choose the delay after buying the motor, it would allow retailers to stock less motors. While at first that may not sound like a good thing for Aerotech, it would probably mean that more retailers would stock their motors.

-- Roger

 

[o1d_dude]

Per today's Facebook posting Aerotech is working with cert authorities on midpower Pro SU technologies.

Looks they are reading along and responding via FB. LOL!

 

[chadrog]

Per today's Facebook posting Aerotech is working with cert authorities on midpower Pro SU technologies.

Looks they are reading along and responding via FB. LOL!

That's awesome. I have a bunch of -8's that would better suit my needs as -5's.

 

[Initiator001]

It would be nice for consumers and retailers if Aerotech would sanction that method and provide a reliable tool for doing it. In addition to allowing you to choose the delay after buying the motor, it would allow retailers to stock less motors. While at first that may not sound like a good thing for Aerotech, it would probably mean that more retailers would stock their motors.

-- Roger

It would not be a good idea for the general consumer to have to drill their own delay times on SU motors sold in retail outlets.

Many would forgo purchasing the delay adjustment tool as they would not want to spend the money. If they did purchase the delay adjustment tool, quite a few would do it wrong leading to unhappy customers and retailers who had to deal with the customers.

Motors sold in retail stores should be sold with pre-set delay times.

 

[kramer714]

Still looking for these measurements,


Thanks,


Mike K

I need some help from someone with a H135 SU motor. i need some dimensions fora project I'm working on. I'm assuming,

1) The O.D. of the motor is smooth no thrust ring
2) The end of the forward end is flat (nothing sticks out forward the motor tube)
3) the nozzle extends aft of the motor tube (the end of the nozzle is not inside the diameter of the case)

Can you please measure the length of the motor tube? This is the smooth O.D. motor.
Plus can you get the weight and CG of the motor? Thrust curve has the total weight as 212g.

Thanks, Mike K

 

[jadebox]

It would not be a good idea for the general consumer to have to drill their own delay times on SU motors sold in retail outlets.

Many would forgo purchasing the delay adjustment tool as they would not want to spend the money. If they did purchase the delay adjustment tool, quite a few would do it wrong leading to unhappy customers and retailers who had to deal with the customers.

Motors sold in retail stores should be sold with pre-set delay times.

Retailers aren't always located in retail stores.

But, I disagree with what you're saying. The delay drilling tool for smaller motors would be very inexpensive and simple to use. I think it would solve more problems than it causes.

-- Roger

 

[DizWolf]

It would not be a good idea for the general consumer to have to drill their own delay times on SU motors sold in retail outlets.

Many would forgo purchasing the delay adjustment tool as they would not want to spend the money. If they did purchase the delay adjustment tool, quite a few would do it wrong leading to unhappy customers and retailers who had to deal with the customers.

Motors sold in retail stores should be sold with pre-set delay times.

I disagree entirely. Anyone capable of building a rocket of any kind possesses the ability to set a DAT on the end of a motor, drill it out, and install the ejection charge. I realize this doesn't include all people who -attempt- to build a rocket and do so improperly/poorly. But that number is so low I don't think products should be designed for the lowest possible IQ consumer only. Maybe put a label on the package "not for dummies"

 

[shreadvector]

Initiator001 can comment in case I get this wrong, but I think he clearly said that "It would not be a good idea for the general consumer to have to drill their own delay times on SU motors sold in retail outlets." in other words, these are normal single use motors that already have the black powder ejection charges and caps installed at the factory. For an average consumer to drill the delay, they would have to remove the cap, pour out the black powder, drill the delay, pour back in the black powder and reinstall the cap.

Average consumers who buy single use motors in retail outlets cannot be assumed to have the knowledge of safe handling of loose black powder.

RMS and LMS are different as the BP is in a container and the installation is simpler (but it is still a common failure mode - how many times do people report they had a failure of the ejection charge to fire on an RMS motor? This is almost always user error.)

I disagree entirely. Anyone capable of building a rocket of any kind possesses the ability to set a DAT on the end of a motor, drill it out, and install the ejection charge. I realize this doesn't include all people who -attempt- to build a rocket and do so improperly/poorly. But that number is so low I don't think products should be designed for the lowest possible IQ consumer only. Maybe put a label on the package "not for dummies"

 

[cerving]

Fred, you're dead-on, besides that fact that these motors are HPR so they require certification. Do you think that somebody at the local hobby store is going to check the purchaser's NAR/TRA card to confirm their cert? I think not... encouraging consumers to obtain/use HPR motors without the proper certification cannot be a good thing for the hobby.

Initiator001 can comment in case I get this wrong, but I think he clearly said that "It would not be a good idea for the general consumer to have to drill their own delay times on SU motors sold in retail outlets." in other words, these are normal single use motors that already have the black powder ejection charges and caps installed at the factory. For an average consumer to drill the delay, they would have to remove the cap, pour out the black powder, drill the delay, pour back in the black powder and reinstall the cap.

Average consumers who buy single use motors in retail outlets cannot be assumed to have the knowledge of safe handling of loose black powder.

RMS and LMS are different as the BP is in a container and the installation is simpler (but it is still a common failure mode - how many times do people report they had a failure of the ejection charge to fire on an RMS motor? This is almost always user error.)