Marc's build of the Fliskits Adfecta

[Marc_G]

The rain actually cleared out today, and despite threatening forecasts, is holding off.

This evening, despite high humidity (83% @ 50F), I took advantage of the respite and sprayed the first coat of primer on the tubes. Note: I wouldn't have dared to spray a topcoat or even white primer that wouldn't be sanded, under these conditions. But I've found there's no harm in spraying filler primer in weather like this. It will be sanded smooth so any "blush" or milking won't be noticeable. The only real threat is if the tubes absorb moisture into the paper fibers from the air, and swell, accentuating any seams. But I don't think it's that much of a problem... at 50F, there's not really THAT MUCH water in the air, after all, even if the relative humidity is high.

From the first pass, I can tell the BT60 tubing is top notch, and will probably only require one more coat of filler primer with appropriate sanding to meet my non-obsessive seam filling goals.

The BT20, however, is unremarkable. That is to say, it's a middle of the road seam, not great, not terrible, and will probably require either several coats of filler primer with lots of sanding, or use of CWF or lacquer auto putty. I've noticed BT20 tubes generally have more seams filling needs than bigger tubes.

I will let them dry tonight. I may give the BT20 a second coat later this evening.

For now, I'm going to try to get back to cutting fins.

Marc

 

[Marc_G]

Got the fins cut:



Took most of the free time I had today, actually. Those little buggers with the spikes in the back frequently broke. I eventually figured out how to cut them with without damaging the balsa. Fun stuff. I have done the first layer of glue on the root edges and will leave it be for tonight.

Those small ones are not exactly identical in shape, but any differences will be hidden under small fillets, so I'm not obsessing about it.

Meanwhile, I let the tubes continue to outgas today, in my garage. Just now I brought them inside, and they are continuing to dry in my basement in an area with good ventilation. They got two coats of filler primer last night (no sanding between the coats).

The BT60 tube is perfect. I'll sand off most of the filler, pull the tape strips off, scuff the lined areas and then put on a thin coat of glue (first coat for a double glue joint). I use Elmers brand Carpeter's Wood Glue for fin attachment to body tubes.

The BT20 has prominent seams, about typical for a BT-20. I'll sand it down just a bit, and probably use CWF painted on in the seam areas.. Then sand more aggressively and see how that does.

My pictures suffered inappropriate lighting, but here's one with the BT20 seams highlighted.



Once the tubes are ready, I'll complete double glue joints with the fins, using my fin jig. See here for a description of how I built it. I have two of these jigs, and will use both... one for the small tube, one for the big one.

Meanwhile, I'll work on the motor mount.

Marc

 

[Marc_G]

Yesterday I sanded down the primered tubes. The BT20 seams faded enough once I had sanded off most of the primer that I decided no further work was needed on the seams. The BT60 was beautiful from the getgo. I pulled off the tape. Here's the BT60:



I eventually sanded off most of the primer from both tubes, ending with a polishing with a 220 grit sponge.

I then proceeded to use my jig to attach the fins. I aligned them so the top leading edge points all matched on each tube.Slight differences in the trailing point lead them to not all end at exactly the same point at the rear of the tubes. I will fix this with a little sculped auto body putty.




In the pics above, a fillet of Titebond Molding and Trim Wood Glue is drying.

After this drying was done, I then took a q-tip with thin CA and swabbed the fins, letting it soak into the wood. This is less about making the fins hard to survive impacts, and more about making the wood hard to stand up to filling and any final shaping. I'm going to paint on some slightly thinned auto putty, then sand it down smooth. I'll also make sure I've got nice sharp leading edges and such, and take care of the trailing points by basically carving some out of the putty once it is dry.

Only after these small fins are nice and smooth will I put on the primary fins/strakes.

I also built the motor mount:



I built it "E" style for a 3.75" engine, no hook needed. Used Titebond II, as it doesn't shrink much.

The motor mount and the top part of the BT60 body tube got swabbed with CA to harden the tubes. On the body tube, I like to do this to reduce chance of zippers by strengthening the top, and for the motor mount, I find it makes me less likely to crush anything when friction fitting.

 

[Marc_G]

Tonight I sanded the 8 small fins, being careful not to mess them up. The balsa was hardened by CA so it was pretty easy to run the sanding block with 220/320 grit paper. Despite the hardening effect, I still oversanded one of them just a bit, bevelling it slightly. After that I used a lighter touch and it went just fine.

I also used an emery board (from the drug store nail care aisle!) to do the small edge surfaces. No picture here, sorry, and indeed the fins look no different anyway. But my fingers can feel the increased smoothness.

After sanding, I took the pieces into the garage. Temperature in there is in the low 40s or maybe upper 30s. I used some spot putty , rubbed on with a gloved finger. Since it was so cold in there, the solvent didn't evaporate away as quickly as I'm used to, so there was no need to thin the putty with LT. I just rubbed it on, smoothed it over, and moved to the next surface.

I will get pictures tomorrow. I'll try to remember to shoot it before I sand off most of the putty, then after.

Once I've got these small fins all the way done and smooth, then I'll put on the big ones.

 

[Marc_G]

Here is a picture of the dried puttied fins. Looks sloppy, yes, but all the excess will sand away nicely.



One of the reasons I like to thin the putty with a little lacquer thinner is so I can paint it on neatly. Last night I didn't bother, since in the cold I could slather it on without it drying on me.

If I have time tonight, I will sand them down.

Marc

 

[Marc_G]

I sanded down the body putty until everything felt nice and smooth. Despite the CA hardening of the balsa, I did thin a few of the fins a bit. But nothing problematic:



Then I used my fin gluing guide to attach the main fins. I did two at a time, to make it easier to get the strakes on at the same time:



Here's the first set on:



I adjusted the jig ever so slightly for the second set.



Look closely in the above picture and you can see the line cutting right through the center of the strake at the top.

 

[Marc_G]

The fins are on and filletted. It's starting to look like a rocket! Here it is with the engine mount dry fit in, and the transition/nose cone dry fit as well:





I'm still working the bugs out of my revised fin jig, so the first pair of fins was off a bit. I was tempted to scrap the whole bottom section and start over (and I still might, who knows...) but for now I'm going to continue working on it. Basically, one of the fins is parallel to but not coplanar with it's opposite number.

The strakes worked out pretty well, though if I were doing it all over again, I would glue the strake to the fin first, and press between glass to make sure they stay parallel during drying. As it is, they are pretty good.

Next step is sealing the main fins/strakes with thin CA.

Marc

 

[sodmeister]

Man ,I just love the looks of that kit !

Looks like I need to talk to Jim about that !

Nice work ,as usual !

Paul T

 

[Marc_G]

I spent quite a bit of time sanding the rough CA sealed surface to get it pretty polished smooth and ready for the next step:



I then diluted some 3M/Bondo spot putty with just a splash of lacquer thinner to get it to paintable consistency. Brushed it on:



That was around 2pm... six hours later I could easily sand it down, but it would be a bit stinky in the house still. My wife is sensitive to the fumes so I'll wait until tomorrow night. IT's cold out there in the garage, so I don't want to spend time sanding it there...

 

[sodmeister]

Things are comming together very nicely Marc .

I used the old Bondo and lacquer thinner trick for my QCC Explorer, FlisKit 24mm TRES and then several others ,it works great !

But yessir ,it sure does stink up the house big time !

Thanks for doing this build ,as I am getting one of these kits after seeing your build.

Take care


Paul T

 

[Marc_G]

Just a quick progress note: the sanding of the filler has begun, but it will take a couple days to complete. I don't have any big blocks of time this week and don't want to rush it. I'm hoping to get it far enough along so I can get white on it on Saturday. I will be out of country next week and would like to get it to that level of completion if possible.

I've also made the decision not to use a baffle. IT would make things a bit tight in there due to relatively squat BT60 section. Tonight I'll install the motor mount and the coolant fins.

 

[Marc_G]

Last night I just had a few minutes to work, so I concentrated on getting the motor mount installed, then putting on the coolant fins:

Necessary materials collected:



I used the angle aluminum to mark lines on the body tube that lined up with the primary and secondary fins. I then sanded a flat spot onto the coolant fin so it would fit into the slight lip that the body tube made over the bottom centering ring (I didn't make it perfectly flush). This changes the shape of the fin a little, but let me line them up the way I want. It all worked out pretty well, sorry for the blurry picture:



Not shown, after the wood glue dried, I did a thin coating / filleting with titebond molding and trim wood glue. It will seal and smooth the balsa surfaces in one coat, for small jobs like this. No CA or CWF or spot putty needed here.

I'm thinking this whole lower motor mount/coolant fin assembly will get silvery paint, then I'll do a fade with a dark smokey color toward the very bottom on top of that to simulate exhaust staining.

 

[closet astronaut]

Hey Marc

I'm enjoying you'r thead and all, but with all due respect.....too much dialogue and not enough pics. :roll:

 

[jflis]

Naw, this thread is perfect

Now, about that photo "necessary materials collected".... I'm still waiting to see what that map is used for LOL

 

[Marc_G]

The map is so I can imagine I'm building the rocket in an orbital shipyard, of course. And it also serves as a place mat at the dining table :grin:

OK, more pictures, just for CA :wink: . I'm sanding filler down:

Starting: unsanded fin:


A little bit sanded:


More sanded:


Almost Final:


Done, ready for next fin:

 

[closet astronaut]

The map is so I can imagine I'm building the rocket in an orbital shipyard, of course.

:headbang:

OK, more pictures, just for CA :wink:

:clap:

The red color looks like auto body filler, I've used it on a few of my builds, works great but difficult to sand. I went to this extent on the QCC. Can't wait to see the finnished product.

Will be posting pics of the finnished BSV today.

 

[Marc_G]

Looking forward to your finished BSV!

Th red stuff is Bondo/3M spot glazing putty. I thin it slightly with lacquer thinner so I can paint it on with a sponge brush. Sands like a dream, particularly since the balsa is hardened with thin CA. In this situation I can apply enough pressure to sand the filler with little worry about sanding away the hardened balsa. Works great on even the grainiest balsa.

I also like CWF as an alternative to the putty in this kind of application. Which I pick is more about mood than anything else. I think the putty gives a smoother final product. But CWF isn't stinky. I use em both...

 

[closet astronaut]

Looking forward to your finished BSV!

Th red stuff is Bondo/3M spot glazing putty.

That's what I thought, Thats what I have.

I thin it slightly with lacquer thinner so I can paint it on with a sponge brush. Sands like a dream, particularly since the balsa is hardened with thin CA. In this situation I can apply enough pressure to sand the filler with little worry about sanding away the hardened balsa. Works great on even the grainiest balsa.

So..thinning with lacquer thinner to make it a paintable application, I didn't think of that, I'm going to have to give that a try, that would make thing's alot easier. I keep seeing (CA), I take that to mean Contact Adhesive. So you coat the fin's with that first to strengthen, I was wondering how you could sand after attaching the fins.

These are the two glues I use.



The toung and groove adhesive is a white glue, it's excellent, like Elemers and Super glue combined. I use it for wood to wood, wood to paper, and depending on the situation, paper to paper. It has a quick set time but not too quick, very, very strong. The tacky glue is clear and dries fairly quick, I use this for paper to paper, this is what I used for paper models, but it's really not good for attaching fins to BT's and especially *NOT* for gluing in engine mounts, I've learned this the hard way. It's best for making cardstock BT's and cardstock rockets, it doesn't soak the paper

I also like CWF as an alternative to the putty in this kind of application. Which I pick is more about mood than anything else. I think the putty gives a smoother final product. But CWF isn't stinky. I use em both...

I've tried the elmers and a couple of other wood fillers, also the Testes conture putty which works fairly well on small niches like where the locking tabs fit together like the intakes on the QCC, but it's not good for large area's.

What does the (C) stand for on the wood filler, is it a brand name?

 

[Marc_G]

Sorry, I should be careful to define my acronyms!

In my vernacular CA is cyanoacrylate as in super glue. I use the thin formulation I buy at hobby lobby with the pink label on the body. It soaks right into the balsa and fins thus coated are super hard. Use in ventilated area... wear gloves and goggles...

CWF means carpenter's wood filler and I use the Elmer's brand... not the Max or Superior Sanding formulation but the regular stuff. I am on my phone so don't have a pic handy but there's lots of discussion in Techniques about which to use.

 

[bradycros]

...

 

[Marc_G]

Thanks Brady! That's the one!

 

[Marc_G]

This round of sanding is done!

Here's the product:



And a closeup of the nosecone showing the filled dimples caused by tooling interacting with the grain during its manufacture:



Tonight or tomorrow, I will spray a coat of filler primer (Rustoleum Auto gray filler primer) on the fins, cone, and transition. Then it will sit for about a week due to some business travel I have coming up. Once I get back, I'll damp-sand with 320 grit to polish it up before putting on white. I'm still on the fence about the exact paints I'll use, but I'll think about it while at a my meetings next week.

Marc

 

[closet astronaut]

Looking good. Must be well balanced to stand in it's tail so well. I guess it is a 24mm mount too?

 

[Marc_G]

Yeah, it is built to take up to an Estes E.

Balance wise it is radially symmetrical but it is actually meaning backwards against the wall just in case. I would hate to mess up those fins...

 

[Marc_G]

Last night I sprayed the fins, nose cone, and transition with a medium coat of filler primer. It wasn't a heavy soaking coat, but it wasn't a light spray either. I didn't specifically spray the body tubes but I made no attempt to mask them either, so they got incidentally covered.

Here she is with the filler primer dreid overnight and into the afternoon:






When I sprayed the primer last night, I did it just outside my garage. Temps were in the low 20s with high relative humidity, though the impact of humidity such as it is in subfreezing temps seems to be negligible.

It's interesting that it dried in sort of a two-tone manner. I think the lighter parts are where it dried more slowly, inside the warmer garage after I brought it in for the night. I've observed this before during winter painting sessions. It's a surface effect only, and wille even out once I sand it down.

It will stay the way it is until I get back from a business trip late next week. By then it will be completely outgassed and easy to sand, though I could go at it now if I wanted to and had time today.

The next step is that damp sanding I mentioned. I take a ~320 grit piece of wet/dry paper or a 320 grit sponge, dip in water, shake off the excess, then lightly polish the surface. Periodically using water to clean off the paper / sponge. Never getting the surface of the model dripping wet, but keeping it moist.

Once that is completed, "Ill probably give it a base coat of acrylic white sealer then an opaque white acrylic. I'm still deciding exactly what to do paint wise.

I won't be on the board as often while I travel, but I'll check in from time to time...

 

[BeerorKid]

You are doing such a great job on this rocket in so many ways. Looks beautiful. Kudos

 

[closet astronaut]

This thing isn't even painted yet and it make my home made job look pitifull. I think I'm going to ditch the top part of mine, from the trasition up and just extend the BT the same size as the lower BT and do a repaint.

 

[jflis]

This is a great build thread! I am most interested in what you settle on for colors and how that compliments the decals

Keep us posted!

 

[Marc_G]

After spending the better part of the week in Mexico for work, I've returned to the build.

Here are some before and after pics for the final sanding job. I used 220 and 320 sanding sponges as well as some 320 and 400 wet/dry paper, in all cases using the damp sanding technique (lightly wet the sponge or paper, shake off excess, sand with damp paper/sponge).

The photos don't make it easy to see the difference, but on the before side the gray primer is uniform and flat. On the after side, it's really quite shiny and layers below can be seen in places. The only problem was that in some places on the body tube, the glassine had worn away at some point, and the dampness from the sanding caused a little swell in the paper fibers. Probably no big deal in the final job though.

Before sanding:



After damp sanding:



I did the sanding yesterday. This morning, I broke out my Createx Auto-Air Sealer White and my trusty $10 mini spray gun from Harbor Freight. That gun is not a precision tool, but I find it gives me good uniform coverage for medium sized projects in a Jiffy. And if it wastes a little bit more paint on overspray than an airbrush would, I'm willing to trade that for a quick, uniform job and easy cleanup. Here's pics with different lighting. The rocket is still glistening a bit as the white sealer dries.

 

[Marc_G]

I've decided most of the rocket will be white as per the face card.

The exposed motor mount tube will likely get a silver/metallic/gray kind of treatment, and I'll airbrush some dusky color right near the bottom to mimic exhaust stains. I'm still undecided on the small fins, coolant fins, and the transition. I'm also thinking of doing some sort of fade around the nose cone.