Hello ,
I don't know if the Klima motors will ever be available in the US, but this composite motors are really much more better than the old Weco bp-stuff. They are also less expensive ( in Germany ) and more powerful than Estes Motors.
For those who are interested-> Robert Klima rocket motor primer https://www.neu.raketenmodellbau-klima.de/Download_Dateien/Motorflyer_DINA4.pdf
Greetings, Joerg
I contacted Klima directly. I was told they are already so busy keeping up with the European market that they are not seeking a market expansion.
Bummer, but good for them.
I'm sure if enough money/interest was shown by the US community, they would change their mind. Letters like what you sent help in showing that. Even if it is just a way for us to import them legally and have them NAR certified, that would open up a bunch of options
(Yes, I realize private importing would likely be impossible, but one can wish.)
They should be listed in ThrustCurve.org if they are certified and regularly available, even if not in the U.S.
I am very curious about the special igniter they use for multistaging. Plus 6 second burn time sounds like a lot of fun.
I don't know, but it seems like there's plenty of interest. Most people don't seem to know about them, but virtually everybody who learns they exist says "Ooh, I'd like to get my hands on those!" There may not appear to be a market now, but that's only, I think, because they have not been promoted.Klima make good motors, but I doubt there is enough of a market in the US to justify the investment required to distribute them in America.
Let's do the math. The retail price of a Klima motor in Europe is about $3.50 US per motor and they are sold in packages of 6 motors for ~$21 US. Maybe a US niche market would support a higher price but this is uncertain. You can ship 30 packages of motors in a 12"x6"x6" box that weighs ~13 pounds and contain a retail value of ~$630 US. 4 boxes containing 720 motors in 120 packages of 6 motors will occupy 1 cubic foot and weigh ~52 pounds and have retail value of $2520 US. There are 17 variants of the motors so to have a reasonable US inventory supply of the motors you would likely several boxes of each. For practical purposes you would have to order a pallet of motors. A nominal 1 meter square pallet would hold a minimum of 27 cubic feet or 108 of the 6"x6"x12" boxes. So your order would consist of 19440 motors in 3240 6-packs in 108 boxes on a pallet weighing ~1500 pounds with a retail value of $68040 US. The wholesale price of the shipment will be 55%-60% so the importer would have to come up with ~$37000 to $41000 US to pay for the motors, and ~$3000-$4000 for shipping and ~$3000 in customs duties and brokerage fees for an upfront investment cost between $43000 to $48000. Your revenue potential is between $20000 to $25000 for the order, or about $6.20 to $7.70 per package if you sell them in reasonable period of time.I don't know, but it seems like there's plenty of interest. Most people don't seem to know about them, but virtually everybody who learns they exist says "Ooh, I'd like to get my hands on those!" There may not appear to be a market now, but that's only, I think, because they have not been promoted.
Let's do the math.
and the net return on the companies inventory investment is between 8.4% to 11.6% pretax, better than a bank account and comparable to the stock market.
There's the reason, right there. Robert Klima originally got into the motor production business to fill a gap in the European, particularly German, market because the franchise for importing Estes motors into Europe passed to a different company and Estes motors were no longer available in Germany. (I was there in 2013 when this was becoming a problem. In previous years I had no problem pre-ordering my choice of Estes motors to collect in Germany when I went to one of their big annual flying meetings; in 2013, few types were available, basically the last remaining stock of types which hadn't already run out.) So I'd imagine that Robert Klima can't supply the US market except by cutting supply to the European market, causing the exact problem that he originally set out to solve.Klima is a small company. Their limited production capability would not support a large US market, so the big time distributers wouldn't be interested.
And do the math "we" did. Obviously, you've gone at this in far more detail than I. I haven't checked any of your figures and assumptions, and I'm not about to; I'll accept them as stated, except one.Let's do the math.
And that's the one. I can't think of a single active TRF member who hasn't reacted enthusiastically, nor a single one of the people I've talked with about these elsewhere.If the market was the TRF active members, each active member would have to purchase 3 packs per year to make it work. I think the market would be not more than 10% of that..."
That's the real problem. What's needed, I think, is a test run. I will contact Apogee about getting a batch (though Tim is probably sick of hearing from me with product suggestions.) If they sell as I suspect they would with proper promotion then Apogee won't be able to keep them on the shelves. That would be evidence that it is worth increasing production, either by expanding Klima's capacity or starting a second facility, possibly here in North America. Whether or not it would be enough evidence to justify the cost of expansion, I couldn't begin to say.Klima is a small company. Their limited production capability would not support a large US market...
Well, that's certainly the way they taught us at Chicago Booth.
You know, when I saw you the other week, you said "I'm not an engineer" yet you talk engineering ALL the time (and speak it well!)
Now you talk MBA. Let me guess you don't have one of those lying around. Or do you???? :wink:
I'm sure you can make a small fortune..... :blush:
Kinda of a moot point because flying them would invalidate your NAR membership insurance.........correct? As far as I know they're not an NAR approved motor.
In any technical endevour, the equations are the same, only the variable names have changed to confuse the unenlightened......
I'm sure if enough money/interest was shown by the US community, they would change their mind. Letters like what you sent help in showing that. Even if it is just a way for us to import them legally and have them NAR certified, that would open up a bunch of options
(Yes, I realize private importing would likely be impossible, but one can wish.)
I agree that there should be more choices available to choose from for the rocket enthusiasts here in the United States and the Klima motors should be available for purchase within the United States.
Oh, sure, rub it in.Available across Europe. The 18mm D is a great motor, AP based not BP
18mm Minie Magg down scale, flies on D9-3 just great.
Oh, sure, rub it in.
I really wish we had more variety in the US.
No estes E motors?You are only missing the Klima (which to be fair I can understand is a pain), for our sins in the UK we have to do without any 24mm single use beyond D
No estes E motors?
Nope Get D and it all stops unless you go reload. Classification issues and manufacturers not wanting to jump for the approval fees
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