Klima Motors

[Daddyisabar]

Lets hope the Germans can get it right. The Quest motors, thin light case, slow smoky and hot burn with out a whole lotta pop. Estes motors with their super thick cases the pyro guys reuse, with nozzles popping and a CATO here and there with the E's. The sample FSI casings I saw at NARAM were even thicker than the Estes ones. Yep, I wanna peppy, reliable motor that is not too heavy. Come on Germany, you gave the world the Porsche 911, now give us a rocket motor to match! Deutschland uber alles!

 

[Reinhard]

Lets hope the Germans can get it right. The Quest motors, thin light case, slow smoky and hot burn with out a whole lotta pop. Estes motors with their super thick cases the pyro guys reuse, with nozzles popping and a CATO here and there with the E's. The sample FSI casings I saw at NARAM were even thicker than the Estes ones. Yep, I wanna peppy, reliable motor that is not too heavy. Come on Germany, you gave the world the Porsche 911, now give us a rocket motor to match! Deutschland uber alles!

If you happen to run across a German, don't try to motivate him with those last three words. :eyepop:

Reinhard

 

[rstaff3]

The biggest problem I've had with the D5 motors is how hot the casing gets - it is pretty thin. I tried shimming one with masking tape to use in a 24mm motor mount and the heat really messed with the adhesive on the tape - the rings of tape slid and skewed a lot in the mount. And the motors always looked like they were just moments away from burning through when I pulled them out of the model.

I bought a bunch to fly in saucers and monocopters. They would burn through every time on anything spins appreciably, including Art Applewhite's 'Stealth' design.

 

[Gus]

The D5-Ps were actually intended primarily as Rocket-Glider motors for the larger RC, FAI-style, Rocket Gliders.

As for Quest motors in general, we've burned a huge number (close to 1000) of Quest A6-4s over the last 5 years in our participation in Detroit's Maker Faire. Fabulous motors and the included Q2G2s give us much appreciated reliability in such a busy launch with so many first-timers.

I also REALLY like the Quest "slow burn" C6-5s (which are really C3s). Great competition motor.

 

[Daddyisabar]

If you happen to run across a German, don't try to motivate him with those last three words. :eyepop:

Reinhard

The Germans are fine, it is the Austrians we have to watch out for!:wink: Looking forward to more fine rocket motors being made in Germany!

 

[Reinhard]

The Germans are fine, it is the Austrians we have to watch out for!:wink:

I can neither confirm nor deny such allegations. :wink:

Looking forward to more fine rocket motors being made in Germany!

Maybe I'll find out something interesting when, Robert Klima is in town for the RC/modeling fair next month.

Reinhard

 

[Astro-Baby]

I am just about to start building Rheintochter Mk II and this time round I may build it with Klima motors in mind. It would be fitting I think to have RT powered by German made motors

 

[MALBAR 70]

I stopped into a hobby shop I'd never been to yesterday morning. To my surprise they had two packs of the old Quest motors (A 6-4),with the "tiger tail" igniters. These are the ones made in Germany by Wecco,and are packaged like Estes motors, not in a foil bag like the current Chinese made ones.
I,of course snagged them up, at 7.99 a pack,I couldn't resist. Now I have a dilemma, do I save them forever,or burn them all?

 

[shreadvector]

Are you sure they are the German motors and not the made-in-USA motors? The USA motors were very fat and had rounded nozzles instead of the sharply angled nozzles of the German motors. The German motors were very skinny and were never tight in a motor mount. AND the German motors mostly came with the German igniters which were the Q2 type with the glass bead which looked like the Estes Solar Igniter but with copper colored thick wire leads.

I stopped into a hobby shop I'd never been to yesterday morning. To my surprise they had two packs of the old Quest motors (A 6-4),with the "tiger tail" igniters. These are the ones made in Germany by Wecco,and are packaged like Estes motors, not in a foil bag like the current Chinese made ones.
I,of course snagged them up, at 7.99 a pack,I couldn't resist. Now I have a dilemma, do I save them forever,or burn them all?

 

[MALBAR 70]

First,my apologies to the O.P.

Are you sure they are the German motors and not the made-in-USA motors? The USA motors were very fat and had rounded nozzles instead of the sharply angled nozzles of the German motors. The German motors were very skinny and were never tight in a motor mount. AND the German motors mostly came with the German igniters which were the Q2 type with the glass bead which looked like the Estes Solar Igniter but with copper colored thick wire leads.

The package says "Motors made in Germany"/"Packaged in the U.S."

They do however have the copperhead like Tiger Tail igniters

Here are a few more shots,maybe you can make an I.D. as to which generation of Quest motors these are:

 

[shreadvector]

Those are German motors .

They could have been packed just after they switched from USA to German and therefore they still had Tiger Tails to use up.

Can't make out a date code on my iPhone- can you see date codes on the motors and package?

 

[MALBAR 70]

Those are German motors .

They could have been packed just after they switched from USA to German and therefore they still had Tiger Tails to use up.

Can't make out a date code on my iPhone- can you see date codes on the motors and package?

Okay ,so I found two different codes there is one stamped in red ink on the back of the packaging : 18803


Also I found, on the motor it's self another code: 0002 01.02

 

[shreadvector]

Looks like a very old package when the USA motor production had been halted and the German motors were starting to arrive and be put into the American motor blister packs with the leftover Tiger Tail igniters. Note those are the Tiger Tail II igniters which were held in with Tiger Tacs. First generation Tiger Tails were held in with a self adhesive sticker assembly. The Tacs were a vast improvement.

 

[markkoelsch]

You're right. Seems "Thrust Curve" hasn't yet caught up with Klima.
I assumed it had after being advised in an earlier thread that OR's data base was based on Thrust Curve.

My apologies.

SO.

Hello, being the editor of Thrustcurve, I have never heard of these motors.
That being said, we only list motors that are certified, or have been certified. Are the Klima motors certified, and if so by whom?





Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

 

[Leo]

They are certified for use in most European countries.

Bundesanstalt für Materialforschung und -pruefung (BAM)

 

[Woody's Workshop]

The last Quest motors I berned up decades ago.
But I do remember those worthless sticker discs!

Does anyone remember burning Centuri motors? I suppose those were either USA or Germanies engines?

 

[Pyropetepete]

Just about to use some of these on a build. Will video and report back

 

[Initiator001]

Does anyone remember burning Centuri motors? I suppose those were either USA or Germanies engines?

Originally Centuri motors were made by Estes. Later, Centuri set up their own motor making equipment.

The last few years of Centuri's existance their motors were once again made by Estes (The same parent company, Damon, owned both).

 

[Joerg]

Hello ,

I don't know if the Klima motors will ever be available in the US, but this composite motors are really much more better than the old Weco bp-stuff. They are also less expensive ( in Germany ) and more powerful than Estes Motors.
For those who are interested-> Robert Klima rocket motor primer https://www.neu.raketenmodellbau-klima.de/Download_Dateien/Motorflyer_DINA4.pdf

You can see the flames in this short video -> [video=youtube;7opVX3doKNw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7opVX3doKNw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7opVX3doKNw[/video]
And the performance of a 18mm D3 longburner in a 300g rc-glieder -> [video=youtube;8SnCuKJD6yg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SnCuKJD6yg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SnCuKJD6yg[/video]

Greetings, Joerg

 

[BigRiJoe]

https://www.sierrafoxhobbies.com/en/4-model-rocket-motors#/manufacturer-klima

 

[cwbullet]

Too bad. The thrust curve on Klima motors looks promising.

 

[Tanarin]

Was browsing through the motors and all I can say is I wish we had the D9-0. I am very curious about the special igniter they use for multistaging. Plus 6 second burn time sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

It looks like the D9 motors are 21 euros for 6. That's less then 4 bucks a motor for an 18mm composite D!

 

[Cl(VII)]

How cool is that D3-P? It is an 18 mm with a 5.5 second burn. These would be great, but I'm not hopeful we will ever get them. Never see that Hi Flyer again.

What series of events would have to happen for these to be legally shipped and used in the US?

 

[rharshberger]

How cool is that D3-P? It is an 18 mm with a 5.5 second burn. These would be great, but I'm not hopeful we will ever get them. Never see that Hi Flyer again.

What series of events would have to happen for these to be legally shipped and used in the US?

Probably about as easy as getting motors shipped from China, only with better consistency/quality of product.

 

[Cl(VII)]

I contacted Klima directly. I was told they are already so busy keeping up with the European market that they are not seeking a market expansion.

Bummer, but good for them.

 

[thomas]

I am very curious about the special igniter they use for multistaging.

The special staging igniter is actually sticks match rolled arround a spaghetti.

Here you can see a comparison of Weco, Estes and Klima first in real time then 5 times slow motion.
(both Weco and Estes got BP because they failed to ignite in the first try):

[video=youtube;MKv_eVhdWiE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKv_eVhdWiE[/video]

One guy in germany flow a cluster of 46 of these D Motors last month:
[video=youtube;vl-KA_S30IQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl-KA_S30IQ[/video]

 

[Tanarin]

I contacted Klima directly. I was told they are already so busy keeping up with the European market that they are not seeking a market expansion.

Bummer, but good for them.

I'm sure if enough money/interest was shown by the US community, they would change their mind. Letters like what you sent help in showing that. Even if it is just a way for us to import them legally and have them NAR certified, that would open up a bunch of options

(Yes, I realize private importing would likely be impossible, but one can wish.)

 

[cwbullet]

Importing Germany is less impossible than Egypt, Israel, or China and we do it every day.

 

[JohnCoker]

They should be listed in ThrustCurve.org if they are certified and regularly available, even if not in the U.S.