First Upscale attempt: Quest Force 5

[dragon_rider10]

Another question came to me last night as I'm planning this thing out in my head. The main body tube is going to be 40" of BT80. Will I need to use a stuffer tube on the engine mount to ensure the ejection pressure from the single D12 is enough to pop the chute?

 

[Mikus]

Another question came to me last night as I'm planning this thing out in my head. The main body tube is going to be 40" of BT80. Will I need to use a stuffer tube on the engine mount to ensure the ejection pressure from the single D12 is enough to pop the chute?

I think that's a very good idea.

Somebody will probably say no but if you do add it, that's one less possible failure point.

One more thing you need to consider is the outboard motors lighting but not the main motor with the ejection charge. That's a proven recipe for a lawn dart. How do you plan to handle that possibility?

 

[dragon_rider10]

I think that's a very good idea.

Somebody will probably say no but if you do add it, that's one less possible failure point.

One more thing you need to consider is the outboard motors lighting but not the main motor with the ejection charge. That's a proven recipe for a lawn dart. How do you plan to handle that possibility?

I'm open to suggestions on that. Other than following best practices for installing the cluster igniters and using more reliable Q2G2, I don't have a solution.

 

[judo]

Cut slits in the upper portion of the outboards as well as the main body tube to allow the ejection gasses to port into the main. Estes did this with the Trident II and Flis does it with the Farscape/Night Whisper. Make sure to have a sturdy plug in your outboards and fully reinforce the tubes where they port into one another.

I have the instructions for the Farscape/Night Whisper at home. If needed, I can scan the pertainent parts for you tonight/tomorrow. If anyone out there can beat me to it, or you can look at Jim Z's sight, go right ahead.

 

[judo]

I posted; I ran off. And then it hit me: you don't need a port for a plugged motor.

Still, it's not a bad idea either. Better to have a port you don't need than to need a port you don't have. You may not always have use a D11-P.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Well, the ports are still something to consider. The whole idea behind this was to use the Plugged engines, but there's no guarantee they'll be around forever. I have zero experience with altimeter controlled ejections, but perhaps that would be a good backup solution. I definitely would not want this big bird to lawn dart. Any recommendations for onboard electronics suitable?

 

[judo]

Electronic ejection means black powder. Black powder means LEUP, magazine, BATFE inspections. I have a total of zero experience with any of that. I builds my rockets, I takes my chances.

 

[bradycros]

You don't need a LEUP. You can get it Wal Mart. Just ask for it at the sporting goods counter. That's where I got what I needed.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Construction on this project is officially underway. I've decided that this isn't going to be an exact copy of the Force-5, rather a Force-5 inspired airframe. With rather limited resources, I've got to make due with what I have on hand and what I can get at a decent discount.

My first project was to fabricate a canopy on the BT-80 nose I obtained- a Big Bertha style. Digging into old model kits, I found a canopy from an F9-F panther. The shape was good, but it was just a bit small. I decided to stretch it with a small bit of scrap bt-5, which was just about the right curvature to fit. The result is rather unique and kind of reminds me of a large military transport. A bit of putty to clean it up and here's what I've got:

The body is also constructed, with bt-50 stuffer tube, 3/4 of the way down the main tube. Two 18" bt-60 tubes are the boosters. Technically about 2" short, but I think the nose cones i have in mind will compensate for that. All motor mounts are 24" built without hooks or engine blocks. I made that choice to conserve weight. Thanks to the new NAR engine list, I see there are 24" F motors if I wanted to fly it on a single composite. The lack of the engine block will allow me to mount engines of various length. I'll secure the engines with tape on the tail end.

This is by far the largest rocket I've made, and I'm pretty stoked about it.

 

[Rex R]

quibble; I hope that I am correct in assuming that you mean 24mm motors and not 24 inch.... anywho looking good so far.
rex

 

[dragon_rider10]

quibble; I hope that I am correct in assuming that you mean 24mm motors and not 24 inch.... anywho looking good so far.
rex

You know, that glue bottle is 45 gallons.

Yes, 24mm is what I intended to type.

Thank you for the encouragement!

 

[dave carver]

This is interesting I built one last winter and have yet to fly it. The one problem I had was the winglets, they pop off incredibly easy. I papered the joint, it SHOULD hold On your larger version maybe some thought on how to strenghten the joint is in order. Some 1 oz fiberglass or lighter or some 1.1 ripstop nylon to re-inforce used with epoxy or Medium CA(lots of airflow for this).

 

[dragon_rider10]

This is interesting I built one last winter and have yet to fly it. The one problem I had was the winglets, they pop off incredibly easy. I papered the joint, it SHOULD hold On your larger version maybe some thought on how to strenghten the joint is in order. Some 1 oz fiberglass or lighter or some 1.1 ripstop nylon to re-inforce used with epoxy or Medium CA(lots of airflow for this).

Oh great! It's been done! My one shot at exclusivity is RUINED. :bang:

Ok now that's out of my system. I was working on those wings last night. I goofed up on one of them, but was able to recover. Right now it's just white glue; and seems OK. I have been considering laminating all the balsa with cardstock for added strength. I also envisioned using a dowel along the inside bend of the joint for added reinforcement. (seems like I saw something similiar in a recent sport rocketry, in the first half of that bulkhead article that went on and on and on.)
(and on)

So ok, I showed you mine, now you gotta show me yours.

Oh wait, stream of conciousness: did you mean you made a regular Force-5 not an upscale?

Perhaps I still am a pioneer.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Moving right along...test fit the wings. I must say the most intimidating part of this kit, either size, is the alignment of the winglets. It just takes careful sanding and patience.

 

[dragon_rider10]

A happy customer included for scale.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Heck yeah this thing is cool.

 

[judo]

That's a big-un. It's got a whole lot of wing surface area. Got rail buttons? If not, I can give you two on Saturday.

 

[dragon_rider10]

That's a big-un. It's got a whole lot of wing surface area. Got rail buttons? If not, I can give you two on Saturday.

Funny you should ask. I was going to see if you might have a 1/2" or 1/4" lug. I've never launched anything off a rail before. (nor a 1/2 or 1/4 rod for that matter, but its a more familiar concept)

 

[Pantherjon]

Cool looking upscale!

I would go with rail buttons personally..Rails a more rigid and you won't be likely to see 'rod whip' when you launch it..

 

[dragon_rider10]

Cool looking upscale!

I would go with rail buttons personally..Rails a more rigid and you won't be likely to see 'rod whip' when you launch it..

Yeah, I think that is the safest way to go. On a completely unrelated note: who is that in your avatar? Is it Taylor Swift?

 

[judo]

On Patherjon, yes that's Taylor Swift. He caused an excited stir when he first posted that. IIRC, he's a photographer and met her where he more access to her than the general public. Concert maybe, I don't remember.

And yes, I have some 1/4" lugs, too. I'll bring those as well.

 

[hcmbanjo]

WOW! John,
With your daughter holding the Force V upscale, it's much bigger than I thought it'd be.
I'm looking forward to seeing it fly in person.
Good work!

 

[dragon_rider10]

On Patherjon, yes that's Taylor Swift. He caused an excited stir when he first posted that. IIRC, he's a photographer and met her where he more access to her than the general public. Concert maybe, I don't remember.

And yes, I have some 1/4" lugs, too. I'll bring those as well.

Cool beans. I'll bring the rocket so you can take a look at it.

I haven't weighed this thing yet. Just so I have the concept straight: to figure out the max liftoff weight the engines can handle, add the individual liftoff weight for each engine together together? I.e per Apogee, the max a D12-3 can handle is 392 grams. From Estes, the max for a d11-p is 451 grams. (interesting)

So as long as I'm under 1294 grams I should be OK? Obviously for decent performance I need to be way under. Am I missing something?

 

[judo]

We can stop by my house when we're through and through it on my scale. My son (8) says he wants to join us. I'll see if can get him out of bed. Are you going to bring your daughter?

 

[dragon_rider10]

We can stop by my house when we're through and through it on my scale. My son (8) says he wants to join us. I'll see if can get him out of bed. Are you going to bring your daughter?

Unfortunately, she's got some sort of tummy bug so it'll just be me. Speaking of weather, though...doesn't look promising.

Crossing my fingers.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Back to the task at hand. Meeting SpaceAXEplorer a few weeks ago has permanently implanted the word 'Cardstock' in my brain.

I had been wrestling with how to reproduce the decals on the original Force-5. Along with the red trim, it also has the outlines of a cargo bay in the forward part of the mid tube, and something that look like airbrakes on the back. I thought this might be a time to try something different. The finishing method I plan would benefit from some actual raised detail, so I thought maybe I'd try to laminate some panels and hatches in card. I call this rockeaupage.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Next, with the cardstock doors in place, I painted on the Rustoleum Lacquer that generates so much excitement. It was wonderful, as they say.

Looking at this nose stirred something in me that I hadn't felt since I last put pen to metal in my Warhammer 40k days.... and this is the result:

sorry for the awful photos, but i think you get the idea. Now if I can just make the rest of the rocket look like this.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Latest update. Paint is on the body, only a few spots to hit again, but I'm out of paint for the time being. I've purchased some trim monokote for the red markings, but the rest of the panel lines and what not are going to be hand drawn in fine-sharpie and weathered with pastels like the nose. Some other details may be hand painted. I ought to swing test this thing before i get much further. Maybe i'll do that Saturday.

 

[dragon_rider10]

Finished! Completed the swing test with the three D's Saturday. CG was right on the red line forward of the fins. First time was not successful. Added a bit of nose weight and tried again. Success! CG moved forward about 2". Trimmed, detailed, weathered and clearcoated. Ready for August NEFAR Launch!

Test fit to ensure standard Q2G2 will be long enough!

 

[judo]

Ready for August NEFAR Launch!

Launch early before the winds pick up. See you there!