Wrinkled Krinkled Paint

[Breeze1913]

Okay, never had this happen before. I'm pulling what's left of my hair out.:banghead:

I've painted two light coats of Krylon white primer on. I painted one coat of Krylon gloss white on, sanded and hit it with the second coat. Wrinkles, krinkles, disaster. It's not the entire model. I figured somehow, someway there was contamination, oily hands, something on the towel I used to wipe down after sanding.

I completely sanded the whole model again, and wiped it down with a fresh clean rag, with nothing but water. More wrinkling in the same areas.

Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated.

View attachment Gabriel Paint 1.JPG

View attachment Gabriel Paint 2.JPG

View attachment Gabriel Paint 3.JPG

 

[D-12 Dave]

this is exactly what happened with the white paint on my Baby Bertha,i posted a thread last week on it.Thankfully,it only occured on two fins,i was able to wet sand the wrinkles,and i let the area settle down for a couple days,then hit it with 1 more coat.Not the greatest looking finish,but it'll do!

 

[Green Arrow]

One wasn't oil based and one water based was it? Latex can go on oil but not the other way around.

What was the temperature when you painted? Was it damp or humid?

Did you shake the spray can for at least 5 minutes before using? Had the paint ever been frozen? Was old or new?

Was the primer coats fully cured?

Contaminatation is a possibility.

Just a few things to think of......

 

[Stymye]

was the rag something that had been washed from prior use .?
I've had one contaminate a rocket like that before, even the laundry soap can leave a residue , so now I always use clean paper towels.

it looks more like a paint reaction tho. possibly, spraying too much at one time or possibly the primer wasn't cured.hard to say

 

[jrcox]

The easiest solution for me was to stop using Krylon, Rustoleum and other low cost rattle can paints. Everytime that I used a Krylon primer and a Rustoleum topcoat (and also the other way around), I had the same results. I know use Duplicolor paints that I purchase at NAPA and other auto parts dealers.

The primer is normally high build and dries really fast. The color coats stick and cover very well and have not had any orange peel or other problems since then.


IMO
John

 

[Karl]

Classic 'Orange Peel' effect.

I've found it can sometimes happen using different types of paint; mixing brands of primer to actual paint for example. Or not waiting long enough since applying primer.

But it can also be imperfections in the paint. Sand it off, and spray that area again.

Let us know how it works out !

 

[Lucky 94]

I had this problem a lot in the summer. I just sanded it down and painted it the next day, week, whenever I was going to paint. I worked okay.

 

[Stymye]

I can say for sure, that is not orange peel, thats badly wrinkled paint.and that tells alot


Wrinkling. This occurs when the top layer of paint dries before the layer underneath. The top layer of paint actually moves as the paint underneath (a primer, for example) is drying. Specific causes of wrinkling include: (1) applying paint too thick; (2) applying a second coat before the first one dries; (3) inadequate brushing out; and (4) painting in temperatures higher than recommended by the manufacturer. ( quoted from a paint manufacturer site)




this is what orange peel looks like

 

[Breeze1913]

Well, I can eliminate too hot, and too dry. It's been in the 60's-70's when I'm out in the garage painting. Deffinately not too humid, that's not a problem here in AZ.

I had thought about the laundry soap thing too, I figured I was reaching though. I will switch to paper towels, just gotta watch for lint, but event that's easier to deal with than these wrinkles.

I will sand it down & hit it again though. But, instead of doing the whole darned thing like I did last time, I'm only going to focus on the affected areas, trying to feather it in with the sections that look good.

I don't know, maybe I am spraying it on a bit too thick. I have to think the primer and previous coats of paint were well cured, it had been 3-5 days between coats.

 

[Stymye]

yea , after close to 100 rockets I still have stuff happen sometimes ,I've been so disgusted before I had to put the rocket away and do something else till Ifinally got back around to it..sometimes more than a year later !

but I usually learn something or atleast try something different next time.
I havent painted the perfect rocket yet(or ever will) but they have got alot better over time. it's always a challenge to get everything right the first time .

 

[Lee Reep]

I try not to mix brands -- and especially Krylon and most anything else. But, I've had wrinkling like you did, with compatible paints (all same brand). This was after about a week, so drying time was fine. On one rocket, it persisted so badly, I used a water-based primer to seal it, let it dry a month or so (I basically set it aside to cure.) I then sanded in smooth, and let it sit another very long time -- at least a week or two, and then painted.

I ended up wondering if maybe one can was a bad formulation. I've never had that problem since.

If it continues, try Kilz, since it is a sealer.Maybe then you can try what I did -- let it set quite awhile, and start the painting process over, but try another brand, just to be safe.

 

[foose4string]

That white Krylon primer takes forever to dry. Stymye has already said it...I also think the bottom primer coat wasn't fully dried before spraying the topcoat. It's happened to me several time after using the Krylon white primer....and even when using their brand of paint as a topcoat. That white primer can take days, even weeks to fully dry depending on the weather. I've got a couple cans of the stuff and avoid it at all costs just because I know I don't have the patience to wait for it. On the other hand, I regularly use their gray primer and have had good results with it.

 

[foose4string]

I've been so disgusted before I had to put the rocket away and do something else till Ifinally got back around to it..sometimes more than a year later !

I've done the same thing. But in the end, it's just paint. And once it's fully dried(a year later:lol, it can be remedied with a little patience and some aggressive sand paper, and then you wonder why you waited so long.

 

[fastfreddie]

My guess is it was the sanding between the color coats. Enamels like Krylon don't like to be messed with between coats. The primer is made to be sandable, and it'll usually say so on the can. The color coats of paints like Krylon or Rustoleum shouldn't be sanded between coats. What you did was cut through the surface of the first coat of color, which allowed the aromatics in the fresh coat to react with the softer paint underneath, causing it to bunch up and wrinkle. It's much the same reaction as paint stripper. What I would reccomend is to let it dry completely, like for a week or more, wet sand it with 320 grit, then get a can of Duplicolor primer sealer and apply several very light coats, followed by a medium coat. Let it dry overnight and sand it lightly with the 320 again, taking care not to cut through the primer, and put your color on. You can take it one step further and use Duplicolor color and clear coats and get a REAL nice finish.

 

[Breeze1913]

causing it to bunch up and wrinkle. It's much the same reaction as paint stripper.

That's exactly what it looks like. It's as if I poured ZipStrip on it.

Right now, my plan is to sand down the affected areas, feather/taper out the edges, and hit it with some primer, perhaps Kilz. I'm not ruling out the possibility of contamination.

 

[Kevin W]

Fastfreddie is right on about what happend.
I've used both Krylon and am now using mostly Rustoleum products.
I've seen the same wrinkles from both. I now apply my color coat and wait a week before sanding and then I apply another layer of paint and haven't seen any problems with this method. However, you will need to rough up the color coat with either 220 or 320 grit paper. The Rustoleum paint doesn't like to stick to itself without roughing it up first. Basically the second coat will go on and look good after waiting about a week, but when you put masking tape on the the second coat and peel it up will take the top layer off and leave the under coat showing. I haven't seen any problems if you scuff it up prior to the second coat. If you're going to clear coat the Rustoleum ("crystal clear") over your color coat I wet sand it with 600 grit and it seems to work fine. Just follow the directions on the can for the clear coat and it should be ok.

 

[Breeze1913]

Repair process underway. I just spent two hours sanding. I hate to say it but, I had to go for 100grit. I decided to take it almost all the way down to the tube.
That Kilz is a great idea If there was some contamination, hopefully the Kilz will take care of it.

Is there any need to worry about a reaction between the Kilz and Krylon?

 

[fastfreddie]

Is there any need to worry about a reaction between the Kilz and Krylon?

I've had it happen, but in all honesty I think it was because I didn't let the KILZ dry completely. Ruined a darn nice finish on a 4" WAC Corporal I was working on. I ended up sanding it all the way down and starting over with the Duplicolor primer sealer, then Krylon colors. Here's a pic of how it turned out.

 

[Stymye]

krylon works fine over kilz if you follow the sniff test...

 

[Breeze1913]

Sniff test.... meaning if it still smells like paint, it ain't dry yet?

 

[Pantherjon]

Sniff test.... meaning if it still smells like paint, it ain't dry yet?

Yes indeedy

 

[Breeze1913]

Alright, after patiently sanding, and sanding again, I got it all stripped down, back to square 1.
I gave it a coat of Kilz.
So, should I sand the Kilz w/400 grit, or straight to white gloss?? (I plan on using Krylon)

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Alright, after patiently sanding, and sanding again, I got it all stripped down, back to square 1.
I gave it a coat of Kilz.
So, should I sand the Kilz w/400 grit, or straight to white gloss?? (I plan on using Krylon)

Kilz sands fine -- when it is REALLY dry. It will come off like talcum powder for me if it has been sitting for a few days, and depending on your climate, maybe a week if it's humid. I've even wet sanded Kilz, but use your 400 to make it nice and smooth, and so you do not take off too much on the final sanding.

My preference is to use a base coat of white for most solid colors. Silver, gold, copper for metallics.

Also, my favorite primer currently is Dupli-Color -- lacquer-based. Dries really fast. I think I bought it at Kmart awhile ago, and I'm looking for it again, since I'm almost out. Will post where I find it, or maybe others might chime in if you've spotted it lately.

 

[Stymye]

most auto parts store have it , I have found it on sale at kmart a few times .

 

[tbzep]

Also, my favorite primer currently is Dupli-Color -- lacquer-based. Dries really fast. I think I bought it at Kmart awhile ago, and I'm looking for it again, since I'm almost out. Will post where I find it, or maybe others might chime in if you've spotted it lately.

I bought some from WalMart (Automotive Dept.) to try a few weeks ago for somewhere around $5 a can. :afraid: It's thicker than average gray primer. It dries faster than non-lacquer primers, but not as fast as most other lacquer primers I've used, because of the thicker coats it produces. I can sand most lacquer primers within 15 minutes. This primer took a couple of hours to sand well. If it were only priced like the Walmart ColorPlace stuff.

 

[Breeze1913]

I let the model sit for a few weeks, it was deffinately dry, and yep, it came off like talcum powder when sanded.
Kilz aerosol primer has become one of my favs. It sands liquid smooth.

Here's the finished Gabriel. I used the suggestion for the test missile on the back page of the directions.