Windows & self diagnostics.. Grrr!!

[dr wogz]

I’m having some computer issues, with a new computer (XP, not Vista).. And that got me thinking..

Windows is used by, what, 85% of us all. They’ve written code, software & applications for many, over many many years.. Their operating systems are widely used, and their office suite is pretty much the standard now in word processing, spread sheets, e-mail & day planning, etc..

I think, we all are pretty happy with what they’ve accomplished. Yes, the odd little screw-up here & there.. It’s life as we know it.

So why then, didn’t M$ ever create a self diagnostic tool & repair application? We can run windows in ‘safe mode’ to do our own diagnostic, and we can get a third party tool / application to clean up & tweak the system. (Norton utilities, Uni-blue, System mechanic to name a few..) Windows seems good at cluttering itself up, but lousy at cleaning & maintaining itself..

You can run ‘scan disk’ and defrag. And windows will revert back to an older setting if something is seriously wrong, but that’s about it..

I'm having issues as a new machine, a christmas present cannot see my camera (EOS rebel). My older machine sees it, and my XP based machine at work sees it. But my new home computer cannot.. Yes, I've got calls into both the supplier & Canon.. The supplier wants me to bring it in for a "registry clean up" at my cost..

 

[kandsrockets]

I’m having some computer issues, with a new computer.. And that got me thinking..

Windows is used by, what, 85% of us all. They’ve written code, software & applications for many, over many many years.. Their operating systems are widely used, and their office suite is pretty much the standard now in word processing, spread sheets, e-mail & day planning, etc..

I think, we all are pretty happy with what they’ve accomplished. Yes, the odd little screw-up here & there.. It’s life as we know it.

So why then, didn’t M$ ever create a self diagnostic tool & repair application? We can run windows in ‘safe mode’ to do our own diagnostic, and we can get a third party tool / application to clean up & tweak the system. (Norton utilities, Uni-blue, System mechanic to name a few..) Windows seems good at cluttering itself up, but lousy at cleaning & maintaining itself..

You can run ‘scan disk’ and defrag. And windows will revert back to an older setting if something is seriously wrong, but that’s about it..

I'm having issues as a new machine, a christmas present cannot see my camera (EOS rebel). My older machine sees it, and my XP based machine at work sees it. But my new home computer cannot.. Yes, I've got calls into both the supplier & Canon.. The supplier wants me to bring it in for a "registry clean up" at my cost..

Because it is there way of getting you to take it to a repair person so you spend more money.

 

[dr wogz]

Yeah, I kinda figured there was some underlying agenda, that M$ is in bed with Norton, Uniblue, sysmach, etc....

 

[boris katan]

Are you running Vista or XP?

Vista is slow, has lots of bugs, not enough good drivers and will only gradually improve. MS is talking about coming out with the next version of Windows in 2009 because the business marketplace is very reluctant to use Vista. MS claims 100 million copies of Vista sold, but those include many millions who have a license for Vista and use it to install XP.

The best way to solve Vista problems is to remove it and install XP using the same license.

The best way to keep a PC stable is not to install non-essential software. Keep it clean. Good free protective applications AVG anti-virus, AdAware and Spybot anti-spyware, FireFox web browser. XP firewall and automatic Windows updates ON.

Part of the reason Windows has so many stability problems is that the market and MS want it to be all things to all people. So it attempts to be compatible with many thousands of applications and pieces of hardware. And then most people install lots of crapware on the PC and bring it to its knees.

 

[tquigg]

Microsoft Vista = the new computer virus. :lol:

I just purchased a new laptop computer loaded with Vista. After dealing with massive amounts of popups from all of the extra garbage loaded on it... i.e. AOL, Net Zero, Napster, etc ad nauseum, I did what I do with any new computer.... performed an F-disc and used the recovery CD to wipe the system and start from scratch. Life is better now.

It's a shame that I have to do that, you know?

Another thing that gripes me about Microsquish.... Used to be when you purchased a new computer it came complete with everything, including MS Word, Excel, etc. My new computer came with a 60-day trial version of Office Home Edition 2007. After 60 days, it either locks up, our you pay an additional $129.00 for the activation code. On top of the $700+ I already paid for the computer. I was introduced to Open Office, went with that.

The last computer I had also came with the recovery CD, and a CD with the drivers. Guess what? No driver disc now! You have to go on line to download all of the drivers now. !@#$%^&*

Rant mode off. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[lessgravity]

Sounds like a Vista driver issue. Check with your camera maker for appropriate Vista drivers. I agree that the best approach and one that may prevent future issues is "upgrading " from Vista to XP.

 

[cjl]

If by "computer virus," you mean that it is far more secure, faster in many respects, and better in almost every way than XP, I agree. All the junk on your comp had nothing to do with microsoft. That is all the fault of the computer vendor, who loaded all the junk on it.

In fact, almost all of your gripes have to do with the computer vendor, and not microsoft themselves (yes, you can buy a comp with office preloaded - I am using one right now). As for drivers, I do have a driver disk, but there is really no need for it. All the latest drivers are online now anyways.

 

[dr wogz]

Cheers! thanks Boris.

yeah, win XP, beacsue of the usual headaches I've heard with Vista. "Upgrading to a more familiar vdersion"

No, it just seesm I've bought a lemon of a machine. I got it,. tweaked it a bit to suit my needs, and it crashed in about a week. So it was back at the supplier for a windows re-install.

Right now, I have City of Heros & Warcraft on it. (that's all it ever had on it..) Still use my other (older & seeminly relaiable) machine for the sensitive stuff..

I jsut got back from vacation, and tried to install my Canon Rebel camera software. Everythign seems to take, untill I tried pluggin my camera in. The EOS utility would error with "cannot launch application" with the camera connected, and would then launch the 'new hardware found' dialog box, but with no applicatins listed. Like, it woudl see the camera, but dosen't know what to do with it. The EOS utility runs fine without the camera connected..

It seems like there is a conflict somewhere, either a driver, or the port, or something in between.. (Hence why the registry remark. Probably have a few registry entries [from the multiple install-remove-reinstall software] that are conflicting with each other..)

I did an install with the supplied disk. I also did an install with updated drivers & such from Canon. Both have the same error & problem..

We did get it to run / donwload the pictures, but in a crippled state. We changed it to emulate Win2K, and could only donwload the pictures individually (The 'automatic download' feature seesm to not recognize the device..) just a weird issue, but the 2nd issue since christmas on a new machine with barely anythign on it.

Yeah, the usuals as you mentioned above. Not even M$ office. Just two games, and the EOS stuff, AVG..

Too scared to add anythign else at this point...

Again, as i said originally, why can windows self diagnos itself, and remove multiple entries? Find unused issues? Clean up unused, open, old, duplicate, temporary files & such.. Just seesm silly, that with all this power & such they advertise & offer, that it dosen't come with something to help maintain itself. You are kinda forced to use 3rd party applications (or become a windows expert!)

Like, you can't take your Ford to a Ford dealer to fix the squeak. You need to visit 'Tony' down the street..

 

[boris katan]

I have a Canon S3 IS camera and have not had problems copying files to my Windows XP computer. I don't use the Canon software.

I connect the camera to a USB 2.0 (Fast) port on the PC using the supplied cable, and then open Windows Explorer and manually copy the files from the camera (which shows up under My Computer) to a new sub-folder I create in My Pictures. After making sure all images are on my PC, I erase the images from the camera. Also back up My Documents regularly to CD, DVD or exernal hard drive.

Many of the third party tools that are supposed to clean up your system can conflict with other applications. AVG is a great anti-virus, but occasionally has problems with Steam (required for Half Life 2 and other cool games). The anti spyware apps I recommended will cripple most crapware.

If MS was more aggressive about having Windows protect itself, many more applications would fail to run successfully. MS would not be all things to all people any more. You would have something more like a Mac, less viruses, less crapware, less software to choose from, and less market share. Having worked with PCs for the last 15 years, I believe this is an intentional business strategy by MS. Judging by the amount of cash they have, it is working incredibly well.

The comments about crapware are a reflection on the state of PCs and users in general, and not in any way comment to you personally.

 

[powderburner]

The best way to solve Vista problems is to remove it and install XP using the same license.

OK, for us computer-illiterate folks, how do I do this? I am afraid I will need some baby steps on this one.

(So far, I HATE vista, they have dropped a bunch of functions and the rest are hidden in completely scrambled-up new locations. Makes you wonder why they thought they improved anything?)

We went vista because we had no choice. You can't buy anything else now. We had to upgrade my son's laptop because the old one couldn't handle his new sound studio, and then when we got vista, his studio software was not compatible. We had to upgrade the home desktop because the old one (was centuries old) would not run anymore, and the new one came with vista. Got another laptop for me, with vista of course. I now have three brand new machines and I can't do a $%^*@ thing with any of 'em.

 

[10fttall]

I've had Vista on a new Acer laptop for 5 months or so. No problems whatsoever. I agree that it seems like they just took almost the same functionality, scrambled locations and nested some things in different lists...Having come from XP though, I have been able to find everything with just a modest amount of looking around.

 

[Solomoriah]

I've had Vista on a new Acer laptop for 5 months or so. No problems whatsoever. I agree that it seems like they just took almost the same functionality, scrambled locations and nested some things in different lists...Having come from XP though, I have been able to find everything with just a modest amount of looking around.

It works great if it's your only computer. Try integrating Vista and XP on the same network... if that works for you, just try to get network printing to work all the time. Sometimes even just getting it to work once is a trick.

 

[dave carver]

Right now, I have City of Heros & Warcraft on it.

City of Heroes is my game! I play mostly in Guardian and Virtue. My global is Ar Kain if you want to hook up sometime. (I have 8 50's, 9 after double XP weekend )

 

[Hospital_Rocket]

Vista = Enterprise Nightmare

Want to keep XP? MS is going to jam IE7 down your throat whether or not it works with your line of business applications.

The only really good things that came out with Vista are SoftGrid and Bitlocker. Oh that's right - you can't have them. Unless you want to pay for Software Assurance or get a Enterprise Agreement -> and pay for a MDOP subscription as well.

Vista is a return to what we lovingly referred to a Wintendo - the game that thinks it's an Operating System.

/System Architect Rant

 

[Stymye]

my next computer is a mac

 

[Solomoriah]

Want to keep XP? MS is going to jam IE7 down your throat whether or not it works with your line of business applications.

IE7 is easy to remove, or to avoid when it offers itself (as long as we keep getting XP, of course). I don't know how many IE7 installs I've uninstalled for my customers (I sell and service computers for a living). On our new computers, we block installation of IE7 and install Firefox as the default browser and Thunderbird for email.

On my office computer, I run Fedora Core. I'm planning to use Ubuntu on my new home system when I get around to ordering it. I have to sell Windows, as my customers still require it... but I don't have to live there if I don't want to.

 

[roadkill]

I take XP pro over Vista and three first round
draft picks anytime...

M$ just got XP decently debugged after all these years
so I suppose Vista will be ready for general consumer by 2012...

 

[Solomoriah]

The sad thing is, the main problem with Vista isn't bugs. Bugs are unintended. The biggest problem with Vista is the intentional implementation of new security features that really don't help security all that much, but make all sorts of common tasks a lot harder.

Of course, the fact that I can take one of my new machines, double the RAM and install Vista in place of XP and see a net performance loss is probably the biggest thing I hate about it.

Add in Norton 360 (so named because it uses 360% of your CPU, apparently) and Quickbooks 2007 (should be called Slowbooks 1907, no faster than it runs) and you have a real dog where once you had a sweet system.

We mostly sell systems with Windows XP Home or Pro, protected by CA Antivirus (one of the best deals in the business, real world-class protection that doesn't unduly slow your computer). Sadly, Quickbooks is still the best deal available cash-wise... I wish it were otherwise.

Many customers are choosing to retain Office 2002 or 2003 rather than buy Office 2007... many of those who have chosen to go with 2007 are telling me they wish they hadn't, mostly because of the major changes in the user interface.

Microsoft has jumped the shark. The sad thing is, they'll never believe that they have.

 

[D-12 Dave]

Vista sucks.End of story.

 

[WiK]

If by "computer virus," you mean that it is far more secure, faster in many respects, and better in almost every way than XP, I agree. All the junk on your comp had nothing to do with microsoft. That is all the fault of the computer vendor, who loaded all the junk on it.

In fact, almost all of your gripes have to do with the computer vendor, and not microsoft themselves

Wow, did M$ offer you a job or something?

I fail to see how Vista is faster than XP. I haven't used any higher end systems with it (nobody I know is that silly ), but I've set up a few low-end laptops which came with Vista which loads of people seem to buy, and the machines can barely boot up without grinding to a halt. The same machine would run XP effortlessley.
And gaming performance? Hah. On the same machine any game will run significantly faster on XP than it will in Vista.
Where's the incentive to upgrade? I just don't see it.

Anyway, back on topic, did you try downloading the latest drivers/Camera Window software from the Canon site?

 

[Solomoriah]

I'm with WiK. How anyone can think that Vista is ever faster than XP, having seen them both in action on similar hardware, is beyond me.

And don't get me started on the whole replacing printers and scanners thing.

It's NOT better. I LIVE and WORK in this world, not the world of corporate computers but rather the real world of home and small office systems, and I have met exactly one person who likes Vista. He also likes Norton. And he paid 2X as much for his computer (not bought from me) just to get one that runs as fast as the common XP systems we sell. Well, actually, his IS a bit faster... but it would SCREAM if it were running XP and some more rational antivirus.

 

[Solomoriah]

I'm having issues as a new machine, a christmas present cannot see my camera (EOS rebel). My older machine sees it, and my XP based machine at work sees it. But my new home computer cannot.. Yes, I've got calls into both the supplier & Canon.. The supplier wants me to bring it in for a "registry clean up" at my cost..

Wait a minute here... did you by any chance install the disk that came with the camera? If so, try uninstalling it. Seriously. Then put the disk back in the box (or the drawer, or File 13, or someplace else safe), hook up the camera and turn it on. Push the button, turn the knob, flip the switch, whatever your camera needs to wake it up, and let XP install it as a generic camera. If this works, XP will ask what program to use to load pics from the camera... I recommend you try the Scanner and Camera Wizard, it works pretty well (a lot like Kodak's downloader).

I tell my customers, if they buy a camera (I know they're getting it at Wal-Mart, and I'm cool with that), do what I just said. Don't unwrap the disk. Don't even let the computer SEE the disk. If XP can run the camera without the disk, great... if not, put it back in the box and return it, because they don't want it.

XP can run more than 95% of modern digital cameras without needing software installed. Why waste hard drive space and RAM on this crap? The only thing you get with the software that you might want is image-editing software, and you can get good software for similar purposes for free. Google's Picasa isn't bad, and the newest Gimp now has semi-automatic redeye removal (my wife loves it).

I don't know about the Canon software, but I can tell you that Kodak Easyshare will SUCK your CPU cycles down the drain. It runs all the time, even if you haven't had the camera out of the bag in weeks. Too many hardware vendors believe you just HAVE to have their software running ALL THE TIME... and most generally, you don't.

 

[paparoof]

Hey Wogs -

Want a solution that'll work? Don't connect the camera directly to the PC. Use a card reader instead. Pull card from camera, stick into card read, cut, paste, bada bing bada bang. The data transfer is generally a lot faster this way anyway.

And the ONLY way to keep Windows running clean and fast (besides stay away from porn sites)? Do a full wipe (delete/recreate the partitions and reinstall Windows) AT LEAST once a year depending on how heavily you use your computer. I do my laptop every six months, but it gets used for an average of 10-12 hours a day, every single day. Also - all brand new machines should be wiped and reloaded immediately - straight outta the box to get rid of all that "bloatware" installed by the manufacturer. Don't pay someone to do this for you - if you don't know how, learn how (it's easier than you think). Once you get the process down you can do it yourself in an afternoon - while you do your real job at the same time.

In fact, after you reinstall without the bloatware and get real, updated manufacturer drivers for everything, your camera may suddenly start working too.

And all you Vista haters out there - calm down wouldya? It's just another OS for cry eye. It IS TOO faster - if you have the hardware to take advantage of it.

 

[DexterLB]

So why then, didn’t M$ ever create a self diagnostic tool & repair application?

A russian would say: 'Меняй операционную систему.' :lol:, which directly means 'Change your OS'...
I had lots of trouble with windows, and I changed it with 'Ubuntu linux gutsy' and by now I haven't had any serios trouble with it. I find it a lot better than windows. irate:

 

[paparoof]

Ubuntu is downright fantastic. Now that it supports WPA encryption outta the box, the only thing stopping me from running it on my laptop full time is one or two drivers, the lack of Adobe software and of course.... Rocksim. As soon as they port those to Linux versions, I'm switching.

 

[Solomoriah]

And all you Vista haters out there - calm down wouldya? It's just another OS for cry eye. It IS TOO faster - if you have the hardware to take advantage of it.

I didn't start out hating Vista. I learned to hate it from direct experience. I'd like to know, under what circumstances is it faster than XP? Because, I haven't seen such yet.

Now, strictly speaking, I want to know what hardware will run any part of Vista faster than the equivalent part of XP. Apples-to-apples, you know? I want to know where this supposed advantage is.

 

[10fttall]

It works great if it's your only computer. Try integrating Vista and XP on the same network... if that works for you, just try to get network printing to work all the time. Sometimes even just getting it to work once is a trick.

You work with it all the time, so maybe the vast brand and setup differences lead to a lot of difficulty. I'm just saying that personally, I haven't had a bit of trouble. And it's funny you should mention networking and printing. Right after I fixed my PSU on the Compaq desktop, I set up a home network with an el-cheapo wireless router and the Acer laptop. I'm not really a "computer guy," and it took just over 30 minutes. The router manual with web-based setup, plus Googling a few things, turned out to be very painless setup, even between XP and Vista. They share folders, files, a printer, and an all-in one machine. The biggest hurdle I had was learning I had to disable the firewalls initially for them to see each other.

On the camera subject, I agree with the method of just plugging the camera in to a USB port. The computer will recognize it as a removable drive without any action on your part, and it will show up in the list of available drives. Then transfer the pictures to the computer. Software with cameras is just some 2nd rate photo handeling program and a goofy camera interface, and maybe even more garbage you don't want or need.

 

[Solomoriah]

On the camera subject, I agree with the method of just plugging the camera in to a USB port. The computer will recognize it as a removable drive without any action on your part, and it will show up in the list of available drives. Then transfer the pictures to the computer. Software with cameras is just some 2nd rate photo handeling program and a goofy camera interface, and maybe even more garbage you don't want or need.

Amen, brother. No point shoveling that crap onto your system.

Want a free speed boost? Remove:

Logitech Desktop Messenger
Kodak Software Update
HP Software Update
Sonic Update Manager

These are all Backweb, which is crap. Backweb is a generic update manager with questionable security; I'm not aware of exploits that take advantage of it, but I'm sure they are out there. More importantly, none of the software being updated is all that important security-wise; so, the updates supposedly being downloaded aren't likely to be that important.

And they run all the time, eating memory and CPU cycles.

 

[skippy-2]

A russian would say: 'Меняй операционную систему.' :lol:, which directly means 'Change your OS'...
I had lots of trouble with windows, and I changed it with 'Ubuntu linux gutsy' and by now I haven't had any serios trouble with it. I find it a lot better than windows. irate:

My main computer here runs Ubuntu, the laptop runs XP, as do my kids two computers. I see nothing in Vista that is worth getting excited about, but then I use my computers as tools, not toys.

Every year before the kids go back to school I fit new hard drives to the kids machines and re-install XP. The installation usually lasts the year out, although I have seen XP die on a machine with a week of installation.

The laptop is only used for technical writing and such on site, and nothing else.

Hands down, the computer running Ubuntu gives less trouble than any of the three others, despite it being online 24/7 and used by two people.

If the kids didn't have to use Windows, and the laptop didn't have to run Windows for work reasons, I would use Ubuntu on all of them.

YMMV, but Ubuntu/Firefox/Evolution/Open Office is a powerful and trouble free setup.

 

[Solomoriah]

YMMV, but Ubuntu/Firefox/Evolution/Open Office is a powerful and trouble free setup.

I'd choose Thunderbird for email, but yeah, I agree, this is the way to go if you have a choice.