Will clear coat runs sand off clean?

[Vigilante_A-20_DEMON]

Oh no! in the process of clear coating my newly built Estes Cosmic Explorer i got several runs. How long should i wait till i try to sand off the runs and redo? what grit sand paper should i use? These runs are unsightly as all heck. ALSO, what am i doing wrong? i ALWAYS seem to get runs, thanks!!

 

[EXPjawa]

What you're doing wrong if you always get runs is you're building up too much wet paint too fast. I usually spray in 3 coats (regardless of step - ie primer, paint, clear) - the first is a light tack coat, followed by a medium coat that fills out the coverage, and then a wetter, more thorough coat. You'll have to learn the balance between enough to get a nice even gloss and too much, which sags. If you do get a sag, however, you can sometimes "fix" it by spraying a heavier coat around it, giving enough paint volume/thickness that the raised sagging paint can flow back into the coat and even out. This, too, requires some practice.

Now, if you have a paint job with a sag, this is where wet sanding comes in. First, make sure that its completely cured. I'd start with a 600 grit paper and wet sand it to get the bulk of the sag off. You can then proceed with 1000 grit to even it out, but be aware that you might sand through the clear and into the base paint. This will be obvious because sanding dust will go from whitish to whatever color is under it. This is probably going to happen in the area around the sag first, since there's less paint there to go through. If it were me, I'd probably sand the sag in the clear down to where it was evened out and then reshoot the clear coat. I'll point out that wet sanding is important here. This carries away the dust, helps keep the paper from clogging and helps to see progress better. If the model is small enough, you can get away with doing this right over the bathroom sink if you don't have a utility sink.

 

[Vigilante_A-20_DEMON]

Okay, thanks for the reply. How long till paint cures? when the paint smell goes away?

 

[mpitfield]

Okay, thanks for the reply. How long till paint cures? when the paint smell goes away?

That is typically a primitive test, if you can still smell it, it is still off-gassing and curing. However I would also follow the manufacturer's guidelines and each product has it's own specifications. Having said that EXPjawa is bang on. The issue is that you're laying down too much in one coat. Realistically you want to wet it out so that a coat is laid down but nothing more. Lay down one full coat, stop wait for the time recommended between coats, lay down the next coat, and so on until you have the coverage you're happy with. If you are laying down multiple coats at once then lay down two light coats followed by a medium. The way you control coats with a rattle can is literally how fast you move the can back and forth, as well as keeping your overlap to a minimum.

If you're using a gun then you have much better control.

Can you confirm what paint you are using?

 

[EXPjawa]

Also, for what its worth, I've been using a trigger handle for spray cans. It is a far cry from a proper paint gun, but it is cheap and it does give you a lot more control over the spray can (not to mention is friendlier to your finger). You can then feather the paint to a degree. But the best way to control how heavy/wet the coat will be is by regulating how fast you move over the model, like mpitfield said.

 

[thobin]

Got to wait and let it harden or all you will get mush.

TA

 

[AfterBurners]

EXPjawa - makes very valid points in his paint process and I agree and is something you should follow.

All my primer, paint and clear is Duplicolor. I like the way it flows on and the fact that you can change the direction of the "fan" by turning the nozzle. I usually stand my rockets vertical when I paint so it does helps.

Tack coats are very important. Even when I apply paint I use about 2-3 light tack coats and the same 2-3 medium coats and then I use a couple wet coats to blend. If by chance the potion of the rocket I'm painting is a solid color and I have no plans to add any accent colors I'll go right into the clear about 30-45 minutes after the last pass of the color coat. Again following the same paint process as I did with the color coat.

I let the rocket dry in the garage for about IDK say 5-7 days maybe...kind of just depends when I get to it. Then I start wet sanding process and then followed by hand buffing

 

[Vigilante_A-20_DEMON]

I am using RUST-OLEUM Ultra Cover PAINT and same brand CLEAR COAT UV-RESISTANT. Painting really IS a highly skilled art!!

 

[mpitfield]

I am using RUST-OLEUM Ultra Cover PAINT and same brand CLEAR COAT UV-RESISTANT. Painting really IS a highly skilled art!!

Ahh, while I agree that skill/technique has a lot to do with the end result, I believe the biggest factor in getting good results is making sure you are following the best guidelines for the specific paint you are using. That will maximize the results for the technology you are using, skill and technique will just refine it. You could sum it up as patience, if you take your time and follow the directions, then generally you will get good results. For excellent results you need to use better technologies and have better skills.

Although some swear by Rustoleum, I have used it and the 2x coverage, and it is my least favourite. I personally like to use automotive paint with a HVLP spray gun but that is another level all together. For cans I am on the same page as AfterBurners and have had good results with Dupli-color. The Dupli-color I have used is acrylic based enamel and although I have had good results with it, you really need patience with that system as it can take months to paint your rocket.

Last weekend I used the Krylon camo khaki on a BadAzz mini missile and it really laid down nicely. It was my first time using it and I really enjoyed it, mind you I still need to apply the decals then apply my matte clear, then see how it stands up...so we will see how it works out. However to comment on how well it laid down as a base coat, it was very easy. Keep in mind the rocket was well prepped using the Dupli-color mastic filler primer and well cured, about 6 months since I primed it.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

You might want to use a block to back up your sand paper when you wet sand. If you just use your fingers, you risk missing the spot you're trying to sand, plus it's real easy to apply uneven pressure.

 

[o1d_dude]

As others have noted above, a spray can handle, an application plan, and a lot of practice will help.

Start the paint spray off the rocket, sweep across the rocket without stopping, end the spray off the rocket. Rotate the rocket a bit. Repeat.

Did I mention a spray can handle? You really need one of those. The Rusto $6 model works great. Buy one.

PS. Spray can handle is your friend.

 

[mkadams001]

Although some swear by Rustoleum, I have used it and the 2x coverage, and it is my least favourite. I personally like to use automotive paint with a HVLP spray gun but that is another level all together. For cans I am on the same page as AfterBurners and have had good results with Dupli-color. The Dupli-color I have used is acrylic based enamel and although I have had good results with it, you really need patience with that system as it can take months to paint your rocket.

According to Dupli-color the acrylic enamel has a re-coat window of 1 hour. If you miss that you have to wait about a week. If you use the acrylic lacquer there is no re-coat window and you can re-coat anytime. The lacquer will really speed up the process and you can overcoat the lacquer with enamel.

I use acrylic lacquer and it is super fast to finish a rocket. Plus, if you do get a run or something you can sand it out and re-coat without having to wait forever.

 

[jd2cylman]

As others have noted above, a spray can handle, an application plan, and a lot of practice will help.

Start the paint spray off the rocket, sweep across the rocket without stopping, end the spray off the rocket. Rotate the rocket a bit. Repeat.

Did I mention a spray can handle? You really need one of those. The Rusto $6 model works great. Buy one.

PS. Spray can handle is your friend.

Hey OD,

Tell me, what do you think of the spray handle.... :wink:
I know what you mean. I primed 4 rockets this weekend and painted one. I have trigger finger itus. I switched hands a couple of times, but not real good with the left hand.
Have you tried the Rustoleum cans with the built in trigger? I'm gonna try those tomorrow on my V2. Hammered pewter and Sienna Mist Metallic (Copper Metallic) in a test pattern.

Adrian

 

[EXPjawa]

Have you tried the Rustoleum cans with the built in trigger? I'm gonna try those tomorrow on my V2. Hammered pewter and Sienna Mist Metallic (Copper Metallic) in a test pattern.

Adrian

These cans are 1) expensive @ $6.50 or so each, 2) have a fairly inefficient nozzle, so that a lot of the paint winds up in the air and on the ground rather than on the model. I used Sienna Mist on my EPM-016, and while the final product looks good, I used a full 2 cans to get full, even coverage. And 3) it don't regulate well - even though there's a "trigger", it is mostly either on or off in terms of flow. It does not feather, and spraying lightly results in spattering. I've gotten this on several samples now, so I'm pretty sure its a consistent property. Oh, also, the alleged "2-in-1" paint and primer is bogus - if you do not prime first and have an even base coat, you will not get even color.

I recently painted a display piece for work with the "Carbon Mist", with apple red on the interior. It looks sharp, but again, it took a lot of paint (and priming and prep) to get there.

 

[mpitfield]

According to Dupli-color the acrylic enamel has a re-coat window of 1 hour. If you miss that you have to wait about a week. If you use the acrylic lacquer there is no re-coat window and you can re-coat anytime. The lacquer will really speed up the process and you can overcoat the lacquer with enamel.

I use acrylic lacquer and it is super fast to finish a rocket. Plus, if you do get a run or something you can sand it out and re-coat without having to wait forever.

Yes a downside to the acrylic enamel is the short re-coat window, which is why it can literally take a couple of months to paint a rocket. This is why I moved away from this system to the Dupli-color pant shop pro lacquer based HVLP system. My Madcow Tembo (Udder Mach) is acrylic enamel and it took just over two months to paint. This is all paint no decals and as smooth as glass. Not only did the paint take a bit to cue but it was a white over black reverse mask, which added some extra coats.

 

[mkadams001]

That's a nice rocket.

Sometimes you have to paint backwards. What mask did you use?

 

[mpitfield]

That's a nice rocket.

Sometimes you have to paint backwards. What mask did you use?

Thanks.

Mark from StickerShock cut them for me using something designed for masking, you would have to ask him what he uses. They applied perfectly, no bleeding, easy to peel off, they really made it easy. I enjoyed working with them so much that I have gone on a paint instead of decal spree and he cut me a bunch more. I had him cut masks for my Punisher, which I am going to do a subtle shade on shade. Hopefully it will turn out the way I envision it, and different...if I ever get to it in the build pile, we will see.

 

[mkadams001]

I have been in the sign industry for more years than I care to remember. I usually use Oramask for masking. I usually will just cut vinyl graphics for most decoration.

 

[dgreger]

On automotive paint jobs when the clear runs, I've seen guys wait until its just about cured and use a flat razor blade and cut/scrape it off first then sand. gets about 90% of the run off ahead of sanding.

 

[jd2cylman]

These cans are 1) expensive @ $6.50 or so each, 2) have a fairly inefficient nozzle, so that a lot of the paint winds up in the air and on the ground rather than on the model. I used Sienna Mist on my EPM-016, and while the final product looks good, I used a full 2 cans to get full, even coverage. And 3) it don't regulate well - even though there's a "trigger", it is mostly either on or off in terms of flow. It does not feather, and spraying lightly results in spattering. I've gotten this on several samples now, so I'm pretty sure its a consistent property. Oh, also, the alleged "2-in-1" paint and primer is bogus - if you do not prime first and have an even base coat, you will not get even color.

I recently painted a display piece for work with the "Carbon Mist", with apple red on the interior. It looks sharp, but again, it took a lot of paint (and priming and prep) to get there.

Well, the Hammered Pewter went on VERY splatery on the first coat and looked really hammered ish. It dried quickly and the recoat window was 30 minutes to 2 hours. So applied a second coat which looked much better (more even), but less hammered ish. All the tape came off an hour later, and tomorrow tape goes over the pewter to spray on the Seinna Mist. I only bought the two cans (one of each) which should be plenty for a stubby Wildman 4" V2. There's only 18" of each color on each half of the body. I forget which test round it's patterned after (not a V2 expert), just looked the easiest... :wink: But, yeah, I could see problems using this stuff a lot. I just wanted something very different and not V2ish.

Adrian

 

[neil_w]

These cans are 1) expensive @ $6.50 or so each, 2) have a fairly inefficient nozzle, so that a lot of the paint winds up in the air and on the ground rather than on the model. I used Sienna Mist on my EPM-016, and while the final product looks good, I used a full 2 cans to get full, even coverage.

First of all: that is stunning. I haven't really loved the design of the EPM-016 but when I see something like that it changes my mind and makes me want one, like, *now*.

Next, regarding the nozzle, with the Rusto 2x (and probably even worse with the Duplicolor Filler/Primer) I always feel like I'm spraying half the paint into the air. I am extremely curious about aftermarket nozzles, since the generally seem to have narrower spray cones, although they don't give spread of the standard nozzle to compare (this page suggests the standard nozzles have an extremely wide spray.) But I'm not confident enough in my rattle-can skills to start experimenting, so I'm waiting for someone else to do it for me.

 

[mpitfield]

First of all: that is stunning. I haven't really loved the design of the EPM-016 but when I see something like that it changes my mind and makes me want one, like, *now*.

Next, regarding the nozzle, with the Rusto 2x (and probably even worse with the Duplicolor Filler/Primer) I always feel like I'm spraying half the paint into the air. I am extremely curious about aftermarket nozzles, since the generally seem to have narrower spray cones, although they don't give spread of the standard nozzle to compare (this page suggests the standard nozzles have an extremely wide spray.) But I'm not confident enough in my rattle-can skills to start experimenting, so I'm waiting for someone else to do it for me.

I agree that is one nice looking rocket. You just reminded me of something that I saw several years back, before I was back into rocketry. A company in my neighbourhood commissioned 3 guys to paint a mural on their wall. I struck up a conversation with one of them about how they get the results they get by using a rattle can and he commented that they used a different nozzle. That is when I noticed that none of their cans had nozzles on them, they simply had a bunch of cans and moved a nozzle from can to can. I had forgotten about that until now, maybe worth pursing.

 

[mkadams001]

here is some info on spray can caps: https://artprimo.com/catalog/art_primo_caps-101

 

[neil_w]

First of all: that is stunning. I haven't really loved the design of the EPM-016 but when I see something like that it changes my mind and makes me want one, like, *now*.

Er, make that the EPM-010. I knew something seemed wrong. In any case, nice upscale!

 

[EXPjawa]

Yeah, the EPM-010 is the Estes original. My upscale is -016. The logic: the base tube on the -010 is BT50, roughly 1" diameter, which could be represented as "010". The upscale goes to a BT60 base tube, roughly 1.6" in diameter. By the same thinking, that makes it "016". I know that Estes probably just made up a letter/number combination that sounded cool, as evidenced by the STM-012 & JBR-013, though the latter does potentially follow the same logic.

Interesting about the aftermarket nozzles. I had no idea that something like that was available, but can definitely see the value. I'll have to try some of those out myself.

 

[neil_w]

Interesting about the aftermarket nozzles. I had no idea that something like that was available, but can definitely see the value. I'll have to try some of those out myself.

By all means read some of the questions and reviews for the different caps, they're very, uh, "entertaining".

The AP Female Fat Cap seems like a good candidate (useful info video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9pBXF6RMNg); although it's rated as a wide spray, my *guess* is that it's still quite a bit narrower than the standard Rusto nozzles. But only testing will tell. The other one that seems plausible is the EZ Cap (review video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpzllSivoWI).

I have not yet seen any reports from people that have tried these caps for rocket painting. I eagerly await.