Who wants to help educate me on MPR reloads?

[Green Jello]

I've spent the morning researching reload kits and casings and now I'm more confused than ever.

Here's my deal: Up until this week, I've never launched anything that wasn't Estes or Quest BP motors up to E. I recently purchased my first composite motors which were the 24mm AT E20-4W and I've launched one of them. So that's my complete rocketry experience up to now. But now I am building my first rocket with a 29mm mount and looking at the pricing, I think it's time to figure out reloads.

So my questions are these:

1. If I was only to buy one 29mm casing for now, what is the best all around one that gives the widest range of power?
2. Where are the best online places to buy the reloads and casings?

 

[jpummil]

PRO 29 STARTER KIT
INCLUDES 3 GRAIN CASE, REAR CLOSURE, 2 SPACERS, AND A DAT:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ProductDetail.aspx?product=2773

Allows you to fly all 1, 2, and 3 grain loads on this page (at least those that don't require certification to purchase and fly...):
https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=754&Sub=795

 

[Green Jello]

That reminds me of the other question I had. What is the grain count and how does it apply to MPR and HPR rocketry?

 

[eggplant]

Purchase an Aerotech 29/40-120 case. It is ~$43 from Wildman, but the reloads are much cheaper than the CTI ones. For example, from Wildman you can get a G76 for the 40-120 case for only $10.39 vs a G reload for the CTI case that would cost ~$20.

 

[Green Jello]

PRO 29 STARTER KIT
INCLUDES 3 GRAIN CASE, REAR CLOSURE, 2 SPACERS, AND A DAT:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ProductDetail.aspx?product=2773

Is this a Cesaroni kit?

 

[troj]

That reminds me of the other question I had. What is the grain count and how does it apply to MPR and HPR rocketry?

Most of the motors we fly are BATES grains, which are designed to burn not only from the core outward, but also from the ends, resulting in a more neutral burn profile (the burn surface area stays more constant).

This means that a motor is segmented into individual pieces, referred to as "grains". The number of grains in a given reload gives you a rough idea of the total impulse of the motor -- a 2 grain reload typically has more total impulse than a 1 grain, for example, because there's more propellant.

Given that grains are typically also of a consistent length, you also know that a 29mm 2 grain case is longer than a 29mm 1 grain case.

As far as which is the "most flexible," it depends on what you want to do. If MPR is your primary objective, the AeroTech 29/40-120 is a good option, as there are lots of reloads available for it. If you want to do high power, that case won't cut it.

-Kevin

 

[Green Jello]

Purchase an Aerotech 29/40-120 case. It is ~$43 from Wildman, but the reloads are much cheaper than the CTI ones. For example, from Wildman you can get a G76 for the 40-120 case for only $10.39 vs a G reload for the CTI case that would cost ~$20.

That is very important to me. I've been spending more money than I should already on rockets, so price is a big concern.

Can you link that product to me? When I go through AT 29mm 40-120 I get this list which looks like engines:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=82&Sub=85&Sub1=87

 

[Green Jello]

And let me just be clear that I doubt I'll ever go into HPR or anything that involves L1+ certification.

 

[eggplant]

Yes, those are the reloads that fit into the case. I have flown the E16, the E23, the F40, the F22, the G53, the G76, and the G64 in the case and have enjoyed all of them. As a teen, they are really the only reloads I can fly regularly due to their cost.

 

[Davidtmp]

In a nutshell, on the Pro29 stuff....1 grain is F's, 2 grain is G's, and 3 grain is bigger G's and small H's. The CTI motors are pretty easy as far as loading into the case. For 1 grain motors, you use 2 spacers, 2 grain you use 1 spacer. I just bought the starter set as well as the Pro 24 1 and 3 grain cases last weekend. Can't wait to use them.
Aerotech has hobbyline cases that have anything from an E thru G. Check out Hobbylinc or such for information. The high power Rousetech hardware looks like it only goes down to a G. There is a bit more involved to putting aerotech motors together, but really isn't that hard if you take your time.
There are some that swears by Aerotech, some that swear by CTI. Just take the points people might make and make your decisions that best fit YOU.
There are a lot of options on reloads.

 

[blackbrandt]

And let me just be clear that I doubt I'll ever go into HPR or anything that involves L1+ certification.

And I never was going to go higher than a D motor...

 

[Green Jello]

Yes, those are the reloads that fit into the case. I have flown the E16, the E23, the F40, the F22, the G53, the G76, and the G64 in the case and have enjoyed all of them. As a teen, they are really the only reloads I can fly regularly due to their cost.

Yes, but where is the casing? I can't find it on Wildman.

 

[SacEsq]

I agree with those that suggest the 29/40-120. Great versatile case with many many reloads. You can get good deals from Hobbylinc, Sirius Rocketry and if you are a part of a club, many club launches will have vendors so you will save on shipping and HAZMAT.

Have fun!

 

[Davidtmp]

Geez, I type slow.......if cost is a factor, I'd go with the Aerotech 40-120 hobbyline case. It sounds like that would be the best bang for your buck. You can always look at adding the CTI case later on if you want.

 

[GregGleason]

A CTI Pro29 3G case will give you 23 reload options, when combined with 1 or 2 internal spacers. However only 17 of these are in the F or G impulse range, with the balance being H impulse.

These are the 17 CTI motor options for F & G impulse:

F120 Vmx
F59 WTh
F36 SSm
F36 BSt
F29 Imx
G250 Vmx
G126 WTh
G88 SSm
G80 Skd
G83 BSt
G68 Wht
G57 Cls
G131 SSm
G125 RLt
G106 Skd
G118 BSt
G54 RLt
​

An AeroTech 29/40-120 case will give you 9 reloads (this from the 2009-2010 catalog, so this may be dated):

E16W
E23T
F22J
F40W
F52T
G53FJ
G64W
G71R
G76G
​

Thanks,
Greg

 

[cjl]

Yes, but where is the casing? I can't find it on Wildman.

It's under "Hardware" - here's a link:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ProductDetail.aspx?product=2748

 

[Yoehahn]

And I never was going to go higher than a D motor...

4 Years ago I was never going to fly f+g motors.... Just flew my first L a little while ago

And I would recommend the 29/40-120. I have flown mine about 40 times, and flew the one before that about 20 until I lost it (landed in a ditch at METRA) BEst case I have ever bought, easily the best decision I have made in rocketry. Incredibly versatile, and pretty cheap comparatively.

 

[Green Jello]

It's under "Hardware" - here's a link:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ProductDetail.aspx?product=2748

Thanks. Is this it at Hobbylinc?

https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro91291.htm

 

[GregGleason]

Thanks. Is this it at Hobbylinc?

https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro91291.htm

Yep.

Greg

 

[Green Jello]

Ok...I'm pretty sure the Aerotech 29/40-120 casing is how I'm gonna go. Looks like the best deal price wise for getting into this stuff. Thanks so much for all your help guys.

 

[kruland]

Actually, 7 of those CTI reloads are over 100N average impulse and would require L1 certification to buy & fly. That leave 10 CTI motors which don't require certification to use.

Kevin

A CTI Pro29 3G case will give you 23 reload options, when combined with 1 or 2 internal spacers. However only 17 of these are in the F or G impulse range, with the balance being H impulse.

These are the 17 CTI motor options for F & G impulse:

F120 Vmx
F59 WTh
F36 SSm
F36 BSt
F29 Imx
G250 Vmx
G126 WTh
G88 SSm
G80 Skd
G83 BSt
G68 Wht
G57 Cls
G131 SSm
G125 RLt
G106 Skd
G118 BSt
G54 RLt
​

An AeroTech 29/40-120 case will give you 9 reloads (this from the 2009-2010 catalog, so this may be dated):

E16W
E23T
F22J
F40W
F52T
G53FJ
G64W
G71R
G76G
​

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Neuport]

+1 on the 29/40-120 case. Consider the Rouse-Tech version which is significantly less expensive.

https://www.cdimodelrocketry.com/products.php?cat=Rouse-Tech

First one on the list.

 

[Green Jello]

+1 on the 29/40-120 case. Consider the Rouse-Tech version which is significantly less expensive.

https://www.cdimodelrocketry.com/products.php?cat=Rouse-Tech

First one on the list.

Cool. Is it one of those deals where AeroTech makes it for them or something?

 

[Green Jello]

Also, what is the best way to retain these casings?

 

[Neuport]

Cool. Is it one of those deals where AeroTech makes it for them or something?

I believe Rouse-Tech makes them, maybe under license or some other agreement. I purchased the Rouse-Tech case a few weeks ago and flew it for the first time at Airfest. I flew 2 G reloads that I paid 12.79 each for. The E and G reloads can ship USPS w/o hazmat by the way. I also picked up several loads from Wildman at Airfest and I believe the prices were even lower and of course no shipping or hazmat on anything. Of course, I bought $200 worth of 24mm and 29mm loads and a $30 Jart kit and they put all of it on sale an hour later . Oh well, doing my part to support the launch vendors.

 

[Green Jello]

Then should there be some concern about compatibility with the AeroTech reload kits?

 

[jeff2space]

Then should there be some concern about compatibility with the AeroTech reload kits?

Rouse-Tech hardware is completely compatible with Aerotech reloads.

 

[Neuport]

No, they are an exact clone. Except they are blue and not black.

Here is a thread I just found discussing this. https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?18493-Aerotech-VS-Rousetech

And from Rouse-Tech:
General statement about compatibility: https://www.rouse-tech.com/monstermotors.htm#29mmH
Handy reload cross-reference: https://www.rouse-tech.com/motorchart.htm

One last edit in case you are wondering why AT would want others making compatible cases. AT makes their money on the reloads, not the cases. The more cases they get out there the more reloads they will sell.

 

[GregGleason]

Actually, 7 of those CTI reloads are over 100N average impulse and would require L1 certification to buy & fly. That leave 10 CTI motors which don't require certification to use.

Kevin

That is correct. There are 10 CTI Pro29 F & G motors that have greater than 80 N in the average thrust department, leaving 7 motors not in HPR:

F29 Imx
F36 BSt
F36 SSm
F59 WTh
G54 RLt
G57 Cls
G68 Wht
​

Therefore, AeroTech is the winner in the number of reloads available in the non-HPR 29mm motor size.

Greg

 

[kruland]

That is correct. There are 10 CTI Pro29 F & G motors that have greater than 80 N in the average thrust department, leaving 7 motors not in HPR:

F29 Imx
F36 BSt
F36 SSm
F59 WTh
G54 RLt
G57 Cls
G68 Wht
​

Therefore, AeroTech is the winner in the number of reloads available in the non-HPR 29mm motor size.

Greg

Rats! It's over 80N average for HPR. To think, I just took the L2 exam so I should know that one. Is the propellent limit still in place as well?

Kevin