What's not allowed any longer?

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fyrwrxz

fyrwrxz

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So, trolling thru the threads, I've come across some conflicting information/opinions. No, I have not downloaded anything (yet)). Specifically, the following:
Break/burn wires
pull pins ( microswitch)
g switches (mech or chip)
timers (non tilt sensor)
mag switches
screw switches
Shurter switches
wifi switches
thermalite
( I know mercury switches died with disco)
Granted, I have not been flying much these past two years (see the last line of my sig thread-lol!) but I'm about to go active again and some birds in the hanger may be illegal by today's standards. I remember back in the day, jumping on a bandwagon to get Tripoli to reverse a decision, but that was long ago. Rocketry can be measured in dog years and maybe now in Mayfly days. Straight smoke and good chutes! Thanks in advance for any replies.
:
 
fyrwrxz said:
So, trolling thru the threads, I've come across some conflicting information/opinions. No, I have not downloaded anything (yet)). Specifically, the following:
Break/burn wires
pull pins ( microswitch)
g switches (mech or chip)
timers (non tilt sensor)
mag switches
screw switches
Shurter switches
wifi switches
thermalite
( I know mercury switches died with disco)
Granted, I have not been flying much these past two years (see the last line of my sig thread-lol!) but I'm about to go active again and some birds in the hanger may be illegal by today's standards. I remember back in the day, jumping on a bandwagon to get Tripoli to reverse a decision, but that was long ago. Rocketry can be measured in dog years and maybe now in Mayfly days. Straight smoke and good chutes! Thanks in advance for any replies.
:
Click to expand...

I haven't been flying anything 'exotic' (in the least sense of the term. . . exotic was just conventional DD for me. . . ), in a handful of years, but what about screw switches seems no-longer allowed. I heard a few people had unintentional arming due to [enter whatever your opinion on the situation is] but I was unaware that they aren't currently allowed.

If that's true, I've got some av-bays to work on before summer! I was/am a true believer in screw switches.

Sandy.
 
fyrwrxz said:
So, trolling thru the threads, I've come across some conflicting information/opinions. No, I have not downloaded anything (yet)). Specifically, the following:
Break/burn wires
pull pins ( microswitch)
g switches (mech or chip)
timers (non tilt sensor)
mag switches
screw switches
Shurter switches
wifi switches
thermalite
( I know mercury switches died with disco)
Granted, I have not been flying much these past two years (see the last line of my sig thread-lol!) but I'm about to go active again and some birds in the hanger may be illegal by today's standards. I remember back in the day, jumping on a bandwagon to get Tripoli to reverse a decision, but that was long ago. Rocketry can be measured in dog years and maybe now in Mayfly days. Straight smoke and good chutes! Thanks in advance for any replies.
:
Click to expand...
afaik, only g switches are "banned", the rest have had issues that as long as they are addressed are still okay to use. Timers without tilt sensors are not banned..just not recommended. Thermalite is like hens teeth to get, and break wires are still used as a type of launch detect (and to confirm stage separation or lack thereof) with some timers and or altimeters (cant remember which alts off the top of my head).
 
WiFi switches and mag switches have been allowed without a mechanical break since late 2020... see "The Switch Thread". Screw switches and Schurter switches have always been allowed (although I don't have much good to say about the latter...)

Pull pins, breakwires, G switches, and Hg switches are not allowed to be the ONLY mechanism for igniting a motor... but they can be used along with a tilt switch such as a Rocket-Tilt-o-Meter. They can also be used along with suitable altimeter as a qualifying mechanism, as long as they don't directly ignite the motor.

If you have an older two-stager, it's time to dust it off and get some new electronics... you'll find out that it's much better and safer than it was "back in the day"...
 
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cerving said:
WiFi switches and mag switches have been allowed without a mechanical break since late 2020... see "The Switch Thread". Screw switches and Schurter switches have always been allowed (although I don't much good to say about the latter...)

Pull pins, breakwires, G switches, and Hg switches are not allowed to be the ONLY mechanism for igniting a motor... but they can be used along with a tilt switch such as a Rocket-Tilt-o-Meter. They can also be used along with suitable altimeter as a qualifying mechanism, as long as they don't directly ignite the motor.

If you have an older two-stager, it's time to dust it off and get some new electronics... you'll find out that it's much better and safer than it was "back in the day"...
Click to expand...

Pull pins are still allowed for arming altimeters though, otherwise a vendor or two will lose some of their business. I still prefer either screw switches or Cris's wifi switches for my electronics, and those are all I use anymore (though I might use a pull pin or two if I had any).
 
Pull pins for microswitches are great, as long as you use good microswitches, which are fairly expensive.But they are easily available. and manufacturers data sheets list g ratings for some parts.
 
rharshberger said:
afaik, only g switches are "banned", the rest have had issues that as long as they are addressed are still okay to use. Timers without tilt sensors are not banned..just not recommended. Thermalite is like hens teeth to get, and break wires are still used as a type of launch detect (and to confirm stage separation or lack thereof) with some timers and or altimeters (cant remember which alts off the top of my head).
Click to expand...
cerving said:
WiFi switches and mag switches have been allowed without a mechanical break since late 2020... see "The Switch Thread". Screw switches and Schurter switches have always been allowed (although I don't have much good to say about the latter...)

Pull pins, breakwires, G switches, and Hg switches are not allowed to be the ONLY mechanism for igniting a motor... but they can be used along with a tilt switch such as a Rocket-Tilt-o-Meter. They can also be used along with suitable altimeter as a qualifying mechanism, as long as they don't directly ignite the motor.

If you have an older two-stager, it's time to dust it off and get some new electronics... you'll find out that it's much better and safer than it was "back in the day"...
Click to expand...

I initially read the thread as asking 'what is acceptable for arming electronics on the ground for single stage, multiple event deployment flights' as that is all I've done. I re-read the OP's post and I don't think it is clear what his perspective/objectives are.

fyrwrxz [quite the mouthful. . . ]: Can you clarify your goals.

Everyone Else: Can you continue to post good guidelines for things like staging that I wasn't thinking about, but are obviously smart to consider? Seems like a good idea for a sticky, but probably too early to suggest that.

I like this kind of dialog, where the OP may have been asking one question, but it gets interpreted differently by fliers history and new information gets shared among the community. Might be old information for some of you, but I have yet to do HPR staging (but want to) so it is great to share the knowledge!

Sandy.

fyrwrxz: Can you clarify
 
Sandy-sure. It's pronounced 'fireworks'
(sorry, couldn't resist...sometimes I just crack myself up).
I know contextually some components need to be cascaded rather than direct, whether ignition, arming or deployment. Really concerned about the g switch thing as I have a lot of that avionics type. I haven't kept up like I should, so I was tapping current fliers who would know. Seems like I need to download the rules to keep RSO's from stomping my rocket into the dust.
 
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cerving said:
WiFi switches and mag switches have been allowed without a mechanical break since late 2020... see "The Switch Thread". Screw switches and Schurter switches have always been allowed (although I don't have much good to say about the latter...)

Pull pins, breakwires, G switches, and Hg switches are not allowed to be the ONLY mechanism for igniting a motor... but they can be used along with a tilt switch such as a Rocket-Tilt-o-Meter. They can also be used along with suitable altimeter as a qualifying mechanism, as long as they don't directly ignite the motor.

If you have an older two-stager, it's time to dust it off and get some new electronics... you'll find out that it's much better and safer than it was "back in the day"...
Click to expand...
Hey Cris! Just going thru the bone yard seeing if any of the old girls could be dressed up well enough to make LDRS. Had planned to bring out some complex or bigger guns than I normally bonk around with 'cuz really, you've seen me at my laziest at most launches. Looks like at least two airstart dropping booster birds may be off the menu. I will drop in for some shopping when I dissect a few of the older ones to try and salvage some for one last flight. C'ya on the playa, this is the year I come back!
 
Are the "Tilt-o-Meters" back in production? I went to Frank's years ago and cleaned him out of some misc. stuff while we rued the day certain components became extinct. I think I might have gotten one of the last ones, but I think it was for Alex Boyce, not me. They were pricey.
 
Certifying on an H or I motor, then being allowed to fly any size larger than that, up to a P.
Times have indeed changed...
 
I'm too new in the hobby to know the 'good ol' days' of which many are referring, but I suspect that when it comes to Chris's reference of the tilt-o-meter, he may be referring to the version which can be seen at https://rocket-electronics.com/. On my TRF page at least they have an advertisement in the ribbon/banner at the top of the displayed page. No idea if it is the same product that you are familiar with...
 
"Can you continue to post good guidelines for things like staging that I wasn't thinking about, but are obviously smart to consider? Seems like a good idea for a sticky, but probably too early to suggest that."

We already have one. Look under advanced topics.
 
cerving said:
WiFi switches and mag switches have been allowed without a mechanical break since late 2020... see "The Switch Thread". Screw switches and Schurter switches have always been allowed (although I don't have much good to say about the latter...)

Pull pins, breakwires, G switches, and Hg switches are not allowed to be the ONLY mechanism for igniting a motor... but they can be used along with a tilt switch such as a Rocket-Tilt-o-Meter. They can also be used along with suitable altimeter as a qualifying mechanism, as long as they don't directly ignite the motor.

If you have an older two-stager, it's time to dust it off and get some new electronics... you'll find out that it's much better and safer than it was "back in the day"...
Click to expand...
This is correct.
 
fyrwrxz said:
Are the "Tilt-o-Meters" back in production? I went to Frank's years ago and cleaned him out of some misc. stuff while we rued the day certain components became extinct. I think I might have gotten one of the last ones, but I think it was for Alex Boyce, not me. They were pricey.
Click to expand...
Yes the Rocket Tilt-O-Meter 3 is the current version released last year....unless supply chain issues have gotten in the way they were selling them.
 
Thermalite has always been allowed. I still have a roll of the pink stuff. It's my understanding no timers allowed for staging and airstarts unless a tilt device is incorporated.
 
While we're on the subject. Does anyone make a solid state time delay relay for altimeters? Something that latches closed bypassing power around the switch circuit, for a few seconds when the switch is turned off.

Or an altimeter that already does this? I noticed that some altimeters have power wired directly to them, and the switch is on another two terminals. I assumed that altimeter would ignore an open switch terminal in the middle of a flight.

Like a TD relay with it's coil downstream of the switch, and it's contacts wired across the power switch. Time delay off.

I think some altimeters hang on for a bit, if vibration causes a super quick outage. But my altimeter brand specifically said not to play with this as it's bad for the unit.

Sorry, tried the search and bumpkiss.
 
Given the input and consequential discussions, I propose the equivalent of an " Antique Fly-in" much like the annual things with wings meetings. I think this ROCstock might be a hoot to school some RSO chaps. Yes, safe and still old school. No thermalite, altho' I have a few rolls. It's just tacky these days. This mite be exciting. Hopefully not crater exciting, but glory days Part Duex exciting. Rope pull starters, hamster powered static electricity deployment, Van De Graf generators, Cannon fuse, flash bulbs and mercury switches. Or not. I give you the First RRC2 as a sample:
 

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You just described nearly half my fleet! Ok, well two rockets, it's a small fleet. Thermalite as an enhancer for ignition and such. My first altimeter was a Blacksky AltAcc, still have the cable and 3½" floppy. I wish I still had it!
 

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