They are from an Apogee and Madcow kit.
To fill those spirals or not fill those spirals…THAT IS THE QUESTION!
- Thread starter JoeFilgas
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Thanks so much and for your input. Nice rockets yourself right there! I’m working on a Snarky right now and I also have a Flying Machine in the build pile!
Capt. Eric
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I sent pictures of the Flying Machine to Apogee, and they used them in a newsletter, and on the kit's website page. I do like the way it came out. And the 1600 rivets weren't really that hard to put on. It flies well too.
The Snarky is my second one. The original was white and ended up in a tree at an unreachable height. For the second one I went silver, but had to scan and print the stickers on white vinyl instead of using the clear ones they include. (The red fin tips I painted on. Much easier than getting the stickers to line up.)
And I filled the spirals!
The Snarky is my second one. The original was white and ended up in a tree at an unreachable height. For the second one I went silver, but had to scan and print the stickers on white vinyl instead of using the clear ones they include. (The red fin tips I painted on. Much easier than getting the stickers to line up.)
And I filled the spirals!
I fill them too! BTW Nice job on the rockets and enjoy your retirement.
Absolutely, now that I'm using the water based wood filler called "Timbermate" I don't mind it anymore. Thinned down with distilled water to a heavy soup consistency, it sands to baby powder.
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Nothing like a 5.5" rocket 8' long to make you reconsider filling spirals.
Doesn't make me stop, but dern.....
Doesn't make me stop, but dern.....
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It's easy enough. The time and sanding curl my hair.LOL I would think it would be easier at least on the fill part.
terryg
Well-Known Member
Every time I try to fill a spiral, the out come is that it just makes the spiral more visible. I now give them a quick spray with a sandable primer and call it quits!
terryg
Well-Known Member
novahobbies
Well-Known Member
It depends on the model for me. When I built the Saturns, yeah, I filled those spirals. But things like a Mean Machine? Nah, leave 'em. I suppose it depends on how nice I want the model to look versus how quickly I want to get it built. I am wrapping up a big Zephyr now, and even though I filled the coupler seam, I didn't do more than a couple coats of auto filler primer and sand down for the main BT wrap seams. Meanwhile when I get to the Apogee X15, you can be sure those seams will be fully filled.
I have never filled spirals, or heard of it before my third Born Again Bar experience this year. I tried CWF, what a bumpy piece of work and lots of sanding into the tube/glassine. I have and will try the Timbermate. If that doesn't work, this is my path forward-->
In the jar it has the consistency of peanut butter witch is really too thick so the guy who turned me on to this @Wrightme43, and my experience, is you take some distilled water to thin it down to like a medium consistency of soup, not too runny but when you apply it with artist brush or any kind of a smaller brush, so that it will stick and stay where it's at, but it will still flow easily.
Yes sir, just mix it with water. It flows like microwaved peanut butter.
I use that way to do grain filling on open grain woods. If you want a slick finish on oak, or walnut or many other woods the grain pores need to be filled. Stuff like cherry and maple are closed grain and will finish slick with just a hand plane, card scraper or sanding.
I tried it since balsa is such a open grain wood and I wanted slick fins. I had left over and tried to fill the spirals. It sands so easy and comes out so slick I thought others would like it.
On the fins I just thin, paint it on, and clip them up to dry with both sides exposed to air so they don't want to warp from more moisture on one side than the other.
Also you can dye it, or get all sorts of wood colors. It looks cool in oak with the grain filled with walnut or cherry colored filler. It accentuates the pores, but finishes very smooth instead of having dimples in the finish.
I hope this helps.
Steve
I use that way to do grain filling on open grain woods. If you want a slick finish on oak, or walnut or many other woods the grain pores need to be filled. Stuff like cherry and maple are closed grain and will finish slick with just a hand plane, card scraper or sanding.
I tried it since balsa is such a open grain wood and I wanted slick fins. I had left over and tried to fill the spirals. It sands so easy and comes out so slick I thought others would like it.
On the fins I just thin, paint it on, and clip them up to dry with both sides exposed to air so they don't want to warp from more moisture on one side than the other.
Also you can dye it, or get all sorts of wood colors. It looks cool in oak with the grain filled with walnut or cherry colored filler. It accentuates the pores, but finishes very smooth instead of having dimples in the finish.
I hope this helps.
Steve
ReynoldsSlumber
Well-Known Member
Those Looney Tunes rockets are spectacular, top-notch fun!
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"To fill spirals or not to fill spirals, that is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous sanding,
Or to take arms against a sea of perfectionists
And by opposing ignore them. To fly. To sand,
No more; and by not sanding to say we end
The heart-ache and the millions of dust motes
That sanding is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To fly, to launch;
To launch, perchance to recover -- ay, there's the rub
For in that recovery what dings may come,
When we have shuffled off to retrieve this mortal missle,
Must give us pause -- there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long a shock cord,
For who would bear the whips and scorns of the playa,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of scuffs, the short delay,
The insolence of LCO, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy flyer,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare airframe? Who would flyers bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary sanding,
But that the dread of something after launch,
The undiscovere'd rock, from whose bourn
No paint returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus sanding doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of phenolic
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of CWF,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of launching."
With apologies to The Bard.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous sanding,
Or to take arms against a sea of perfectionists
And by opposing ignore them. To fly. To sand,
No more; and by not sanding to say we end
The heart-ache and the millions of dust motes
That sanding is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To fly, to launch;
To launch, perchance to recover -- ay, there's the rub
For in that recovery what dings may come,
When we have shuffled off to retrieve this mortal missle,
Must give us pause -- there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long a shock cord,
For who would bear the whips and scorns of the playa,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of scuffs, the short delay,
The insolence of LCO, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy flyer,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare airframe? Who would flyers bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary sanding,
But that the dread of something after launch,
The undiscovere'd rock, from whose bourn
No paint returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus sanding doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of phenolic
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of CWF,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of launching."
With apologies to The Bard.
Genius poetry 
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Genius poetry
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I've had good luck with Elmer's wood filler on LPRs in the past (recommended by someone on this forum, I think). Now I'm trying it on an HPR kit. We'll see. There are many many many many many many more spirals to fill this time. I may change my mind.
John Brohm
Well-Known Member
I have a severe allergic reaction to that stuff, can't use it anymore
Does it matter which Timber Mate type, such as Walnut, Maple/Beech/Pine, Red Oak, Mahogany, Natural, etc, you use... or do they all fill and spread the same?
I just got an 8 oz. "Walnut" when I thought I ordered "Natural". I wondered if I should buy the "Natural" version also, and compare its spreadability/sandability/hardness, with the Walnut?
Do all types of Timber Mate spread the same (thinned with distilled water)?
yes, just tinted differently ,and I use distilled water.
Thank you, Hobie1dog.
I'm getting back into building after a long time and your advice is greatly appreciated; your advice saved me money, and from having too much stuff.
I've used Elmer's Carpenter Wood Filler (many years past), as well as rattle can primer, and primer/filler, to fill spirals. I'm interested in seeing what you use, and how you use it, so I can get back up to speed making rocket with nice finishes.
I'll likely use Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty mentioned by John Brohm, but maybe not to fill cardboard tube spirals. I will likely use the Bondo on primed parts (like a styrene nose cone) to fill imperfections.
Decades ago I used 2-part Bondo auto body material for big dings in materials like plastics, wood, and MDF (Medium Density Fiber board), along with a filler called Nitro Stan, when I made product (industrial designed) models (not rockets). The auto body materials are great for rocketry.
I have a 3M Half Face respirator with organic vapor cartridges. I want clear air because I don't want vapors getting in my eyes...some products have harmful chemicals, and the damage they produce is cumulative.
Thank you, Hobie1dog
I'm getting back into building after a long time and your advice is greatly appreciated; your advice saved me money, and from having too much stuff.
I've used Elmer's Carpenter Wood Filler (many years past), as well as rattle can primer, and primer/filler, to fill spirals. I'm interested in seeing what you use, and how you use it, so I can get back up to speed making rocket with nice finishes.
I'll likely use Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty mentioned by John Brohm, but maybe not to fill cardboard tube spirals. I will likely use the Bondo on primed parts (like a styrene nose cone) to fill imperfections.
Decades ago I used 2-part Bondo auto body material for big dings in materials like plastics, wood, and MDF (Medium Density Fiber board), along with a filler called Nitro Stan, when I made product (industrial designed) models (not rockets). The auto body materials are great for rocketry.
I have a 3M Half Face respirator with organic vapor cartridges. I want clear air because I don't want vapors getting in my eyes...some products have harmful chemicals, and the damage they produce is cumulative.
Thank you, Hobie1dog
John, That's a beautiful smooth finish!
I will try your Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty to fill spirals, but would prefer water-base products like the Timber Mate, and Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Filler, as they don't have organic vapors.
I'll use Bondo Glazing & Spot (907?) on other rocket parts, like filling imperfections on a styrene nose cone for a Talos model I'm designing and building.
I’ll start a build-thread soon so you can see how I use the Timber Mate, and Bondo, fillers.
Ernie:
just find out what works best for you as far as filler materials. I just had to put something on the rocket that was water-based instead of the chemical based products. The Timbermate filler just works real well for me, as I can put it on the air frame and sand it without any protection. I just use a fan blowing across me just to keep the dust away from my face as it sands just like baby powder.
To try and keep all the vapors away from my eyes, I bought a full face mask with the dual respirator cartridges and it still doesn't keep me from getting my eyes swollen when I try to use the epoxies.
John Brohm
Well-Known Member
Excellent advice. My kryptonite is regular CA. Should the fumes get anywhere near me, then I end up in a full-on respiratory attack. So I use the odorless kind (when I need CA), which isn't nearly as quick acting but at least is twice as expensive.
John Brohm
Well-Known Member
Thanks Ernie! Looking forward to seeing your builds.
