Thinking about some tube-y and ring-y designs...

[GlenP]

You could make the ring support fins slightly swept forward, from the body to the ring, so that they are not visibly protruding from the front, it will look like the ring is suspended around the tube. I was thinking you could incorporate one of your converging diverging transitions within the fin tube, but you probably have had about enough of painting those without adding this kind of complexity.

 

[neil_w]

You could make the ring support fins slightly swept forward, from the body to the ring, so that they are not visibly protruding from the front, it will look like the ring is suspended around the tube.

I should probably experiment with that a bit. I have been updating the Ringwarrior3 design with no internal supports at all on the rear ring (totally suspended within the outer fins), but I haven't tried what you're suggesting.

I was thinking you could incorporate one of your converging diverging transitions within the fin tube, but you probably have had about enough of painting those without adding this kind of complexity.

This will already be a complex paint job, though I haven't designed it yet. Don't want to use one of those double transitions again, but you did give me an idea that should explore. More variations on the way.

 

[GlenP]

Or you could use a diamond fin with a little corner of it going through a slot in the ring. Might have to put two rings together from the front and back and seal the seam to build something like that. But the diamond fin in the middle won't be that visible inside the ring, creating the illusion of a floating ring around the body tube, either way, your concepts all look really cool, I like the combination of the rings with the sharp angles of the fins.

 

[neil_w]

Or you could use a diamond fin with a little corner of it going through a slot in the ring. Might have to put two rings together from the front and back and seal the seam to build something like that. But the diamond fin in the middle won't be that visible inside the ring, creating the illusion of a floating ring around the body tube

I think I am only partly getting what you're suggesting here. Could you make a picture (in OR or otherwise)?

either way, your concepts all look really cool, I like the combination of the rings with the sharp angles of the fins.

Thanks, I'm having fun with it. It looks like I'm definitely focused on rings for now, will get back to tube fins in the future.

 

[GlenP]

I was thinking along the lines of your diamond cutter rocket, if you put a shroud over the fins, kind of like this. Just to keep the fins in the ring hidden. here is a rough idea, the ring is drawn semi-transparent. The ring could be longer than the fins.

 

[neil_w]

Ah, I get it. That could be something play with.

So I tried out my idea of what to do with a transition and hated the result, so I'm not gonna even bother to post it here.

Here's a slightly updated version of Ring Warrior 3, where the rear small ring has no internal supports, and is simply suspended within the three fins.
View attachment ringwarrior2.ork


(here's what this one looks like if you've forgotten:)

And finally (for now), Ring Warrior 4. The rings are notched into the fins, so they kind of float front and back. I'm not normally a forward-swept-fin kind of guy, but I was sufficiently intrigued by this one I took the time to give it a lame-ass paint job in OR (mainly to show the effect of the yellow ring interiors). A better paint scheme is definitely needed, I'm severely challenged in this area. One of the reasons I like kits is because then I don't have to think about this stuff.

Oh, the design:
View attachment ringwarrior4.ork



So far I think these are my two favorites, but not settled yet.

 

[Screaminhelo]

They just keep getting better, RW4 is the best yet Neil! The paint job would be a bit of a pain it is doable.

 

[neil_w]

They just keep getting better, RW4 is the best yet Neil!

Thanks, glad someone is enjoying. It's fun doing this in public. If I had OR and a forum like this when I was a kid I'd probably have done nothing else but spew designs all day.

The paint job would be a bit of a pain it is doable.

Yeah, this one would not be pleasant. But mainly I'm not convinced it's very good. It has some good elements, but overall I'm not thrilled. Once I decide on a design, I'll definitely have to spend some additional time working on paint scheme.

Unless some other kind soul figures it out for me.

 

[neil_w]

Too much is never enough:


I'm actually looking for a bit more building challenge; the previous design would be quite simple other than dealing with the painting.

These add a bit more to do, along with an even worse painting situation (actually, looking at these, I have no idea how to sequence paint and assembly. If I go with one of these, I'm really gonna need to think hard about this). In these designs, the rings would be cut into three pieces and glued between the fins (other than the large ring on the first design, which would be slotted in.)

Too much?

 

[neil_w]

Slightly updated RW5, with paint job designed to put me in the hospital:


Getting close, maybe.

 

[Screaminhelo]

Looks nice! I don't think that you will have to worry much about stability margin on that one.

 

[les]

RW 5 looks fabulous!

 

[neil_w]

I think RW5 might be "it", although I (as always) reserve the right to change my mind a few more times.

So, assuming that I can find some kind soul to cut and send me a 4" ring (the other two are BT60 and BT80, which are no problem, but I could use help with the 4" ring), let's think about assembly sequence. I gotta have this figured out before I start, or I could easily find myself in an impossible painting situation. The only thing of interest here is the tail rings, everything else is straightforward. Here are my thoughts:

1) In general, the main fins are standard, solid pieces. Those get glued on normally.
2) The two smaller rings will be cut into three pieces and glued between the fins. The larger ring will stay as 1 piece but will have slots cut so it can fit onto the three fins.
3) I have to fully assemble and paint the main rocket before attaching the rings. I'll mask off some thin stripes where the rings will attach, so there will be paint-free zones for gluing.
4) Likewise, I have to paint the rings before attaching them. I'll paint them all in one piece, masking off three cut locations, to preserve a paint-free zone for gluing. After painting I'll cut them up.
5) Then I glue the rings on.
6) Then I touch up the glue zones with a brush.

Frankly this scares me, but I don't quite think I could imagine painting the rear fin/ring assembly after its fully glued together. At the very least, I feel like I have to pre-paint the inside of the rings; maybe I could do the rest after assembly. Is there are straightforward way to do this? Am I making it too complicated?

 

[Screaminhelo]

I don't disagree with your sequence, mainly because I can't think of a viable alternative right now. There are some merits to doing the complete build before painting but that would make painting difficult but would be optimal for assembly and strong joints. Which ever direction you go, I just thought of something that could help with painting if you need to mask some tight places. Take a look at Parafilm M. It can be stretched and coaxed into some tight places and cuts well with a sharp blade.

 

[neil_w]

Hmm, never saw that stuff before, looks interesting. Thanks for the link.

My big problem (I think) will be getting paint into all the right places, more so than masking. I still need to play with the paint scheme a little more; there could be some things that could make painting easier.

 

[McKailas Dad]

Am I making it too complicated?

I am likely the last person on this forum capable of answering THAT question... (I -start- my winter builds in the Spring, just for that reason )

On another note, as far as masking? I'm kind of a hot rod guy, I learned a trick of using aluminum foil for masking when painting in engine bays. Takes any shape you put it in, and tape is rarely necessary.

 

[Rex R]

having built 3 ring fin birds over the years...an airbrush(with acrylic paint) works nicely for getting paint into odd crooks and nannies.
Rex

 

[bill_s]

Here's my first attempt:
Click image for larger version. Name: tubular_warrior1.png Views: 86 Size: 55.9 KB ID: 279792
tubular_warrior.ork

The center of pressure is way far back on this one, and the design ends up ridiculously overstable (over 3 calibers). Is this correct? I know tube fins have weird properties, but would this really behave like a normal overstable rocket?

It can't be correct. It's like it thought the forward fins were actually behind the rocket or something. 2nd thought: that only the outer tube fins are in clear air, that the rocket diameter is the rings. This may be a case where simming it not how it looks may be needed.

 

[neil_w]

...an airbrush(with acrylic paint) works nicely for getting paint into odd crooks and nannies.

Yeah, I agree that's probably the right tool, but an airbrush is not in the cards for me right now unfortunately. Gonna have to find other ways.

 

[Trident]

I've only built one tube fin rocket, but went to the wild side on this one. This was back in the days where my kids and I were doing "Easter Egg" dipped paint jobs. This one involved a lot of odd leftover paint. Tubes are heavy wall 24mm motor tubing. Remainder is BT-60 and BT-55, including tail cone under the tube fins.

This one is named Acid Indigestion ...

 

[neil_w]

Wow!

 

[Screaminhelo]

If you already have an air compressor and Parsippany isn't a pain to get to, this Harbor Freight deal will get the job done as long and can even be used for fine work. These are a great buy and some people swear by them, claiming that they are just as good as much more expensive tools.

Chicago Pneumatic Deluxe Airbrush

 

[Trident]

Loving the first one!!!

I forgot to say so -- I like the first one as well.

 

[neil_w]

This one returns to tube fins, but combines aspects of some previous ring designs as well, along with GlenP's suggestion of having fins look like they're poking through the tubes. Couldn't come up with a good (or even passable) color scheme yet, so here it is raw.



View attachment tubular_warrior4.ork

The ring is suspended from three fins that are mounted inside the tubes. That should be somewhat interesting to build.

I originally had the fins mounted to a phantom BT80, but that totally screwed up the sim, so I now have them mounted to the main BT55 with a spike that is visible from some angles. It wouldn't be there in the final, but it seems to sim more correctly now (assuming the handling of the tube fins and ring are accurate in OR; I'm not really too confident in that).

Anyway, I like the direction but it doesn't feel quite finished. Feedback welcome as always.

One color scheme:


Nice but still Not Quite Right.

 

[neil_w]

I know no one is paying attention to this thread anymore but I'm gonna keep posting anyway.

Now that I learned how to offset the tail rings (thanks K'Tesh), I can try some other things I've been wanting to for a while. I really like this one, although I have no idea if it is really stable. Paint job is just a placeholder at this point, but not a bad start.

 

[Cabernut]

My personal favorites are this latest one and RW4.

It seems the gray & red go well with this design. Just one of those things that "fits"

 

[TRFfan]

My personal favorites are this latest one and RW4.

It seems the gray & red go well with this design. Just one of those things that "fits"

Exactly. This paint scheme looks perfect on it.

 

[neil_w]

Thanks for the feedback. I admit I'm kind of liking this one too, and it would be an interesting build. Better with a cockpit?

 

[Cabernut]

Quickly becoming a sci-fi model. Actually, now that I think of it, any model that has 'wings' should have a cockpit...

Looking great!

 

[Screaminhelo]

5 gets my vote so far but this one is a close second.