# Starchaser 2.6 - Another Barclone inspired scratch build

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#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
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I'll keep on saying it, if you are not using the BARCLONE catalog as a source of inspiration you are REALLY missing the boat. (IMNSHO)

My latest is inspired by this design by the prolific Craig McGraw.

I am building it to BT-80 size with CTI and AT 24mm motors as the target impulse. Especially CTI. It'll be light and I hope strong.

I have a little different take on it, but can I pull it off? Those fins are stressful, and centering those ring fins in fin slots?! How the heck am I gonna do that? GOOD question as I have already made a few gaffs and I as yet have no idea. ROCKSIM does not print them!

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#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
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I intend recovery to be controlled by either an Alts22 or a Perfect Flight Stratologger with motor back up. I don't see this flying on anything other than a baby F (i.e. AT 24/40 casing), to full F or baby G (CTI Pro24).

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#### qquake2k

##### Captain Low-N-Slow
Very cool design, Jeff!

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
So I thought I'd give another go at G. Gassaway's primer filling method on the BT-80 spirals.

In photo 1 you can see I used thin masking tape to wrap either side of the spiral. And I cut a few inch wide strips of brown paper that were wide enough to overlap the tape and cover the rest of the area.

Then I sprayed (or slathered as the case may be) the Klitz primer. Picture 2. I don't have a before picture but the after pictures explain it better. In any case I let it dry a bit and got to undoing the deeds done.

Picture 3 shows the brown paper partially unwrapped.

Picture 4 shows me starting to peel away one spiral of thin masking tape.

Picture 5 shows the carnage on the floor.

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#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter

The result is fairly clean. But it requires just as much if not more elbow grease to sand a Fill'n'Finish.

BTW: The Rocket is BT-80 based, the pods BT-50, and the rings BT-101.

Yes the photos are named wrong.

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#### qquake2k

##### Captain Low-N-Slow

The result is fairly clean. But it requires just as much if not more elbow grease to sand a Fill'n'Finish.

BTW: The Rocket is BT-80 based, the pods BT-50, and the rings BT-101.

Yes the photos are named wrong.

If it requires as much elbow grease in sanding as Fill n Finish, I'd think the latter method would be easier. Much less prep work with the Fill n Finish.

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
If it requires as much elbow grease in sanding as Fill n Finish, I'd think the latter method would be easier. Much less prep work with the Fill n Finish.
True, but I have seen some evidence that keeping FnF in spirals of larger tubes can be problematic. Guess I'll find out...

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
Next thing to do was cut the basswood fins. You'll notice that Rocksim is ZERO help in cutting the slots in the fins for the ring tails embedded in them. I'd have had to work that out in the custom fin screen for myself. This, even though the 3D image clearly shows the 3D drawing library Rocksim is using knows there is an intersection. Proving what we all know, Rocksim is not a CAD program.

I rough cut them freehand along the outline. Those of you who are sharp will note the error right away. However I was able to cut each of them from a long sheet of bassword. Not sure yet what I'll do about it. Maybe the rings once installed and glued will be enough.

I then stacked them and decided I'd try an old Caption Low & Slow idea and pin them together for final sanding. So drilled two hole, fore and aft, in the TTW tab. Then I took some dowel scrap and tapped it into the hole, then flush cut it off. I don't think CapLoSlow does that but what the heck... I don't want to be a total ripoff artist.

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
Then it was off the to sander and the band saw. My crappy little 12 year old delta band saw final through a hissy-fit as pieces of the dried up 'tire' (as I guess its called) on the top wheel, disintegrated and fell off. But not before I get the TTW tab cut out. I see it's just as expense to get new tires as it is to get another small crappy bandsaw... well... ok... $70 versus$120. Still...

Anyway before and after pics...
Then we tap out the dowels...
And we have fins galore...

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
To deal with my boo-boo maybe I'll add some exo-skeletal like half round sticks, flush on the surface, from the rings to the pods... :blush:

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
Time to cut the payload / altimeter bay. Pretty straight forward. Wrap a straight edge of cardstock around the measure marks, back the tube with a coupler, use a sharp, fresh, single edge razor and voila!, a clean cut payload bay.

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
Next we mark the main tube for the TTW fin slots. I believe these templates came from the Fliskits web site.

I intend to cut the TTW fin slots all the way to the rear of the body tube. I want to tack the fins to the MMT so that I can measure and mark the slots in the fins for the BT-101 rear and forward ring fins.

With a full size coupler slid inside we are ready to commit slot cutting.

#### Scotty Dog

##### Well-Known Member
What I like is the fact you are trying different methods of building.
Filling the spirals
Pinning the fins
Ring fins

Myself ,I like trying different building techniques, designs,ect.
Somethings we try may seem like it was a total waste of time,but not really,cuz now we know, and knowlege is priceless.

Looking good .:clap:

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
Thanks Scotty! Yep, I don't any two build to be quite the same or it becomes a bit repetitious. I am sure I'll return to some techniques just as I am sure there are some that I'll 'relearn' how bad they were.

Mixing it up. There are many ways to build rockets. Most are not wrong.

Anyone know a good technique for making half rounds from dowels? Can they be bought?... guess I should go search that.

Got nothing got done on it today... its Easter... but of course that simply means I am working so that the faithful can have the day off with family and whatever. Hey I don't mind helping them spend time as they wish!

#### qquake2k

##### Captain Low-N-Slow
Thanks Scotty! Yep, I don't any two build to be quite the same or it becomes a bit repetitious. I am sure I'll return to some techniques just as I am sure there are some that I'll 'relearn' how bad they were.

Mixing it up. There are many ways to build rockets. Most are not wrong.

Anyone know a good technique for making half rounds from dowels? Can they be bought?... guess I should go search that.

Got nothing got done on it today... its Easter... but of course that simply means I am working so that the faithful can have the day off with family and whatever. Hey I don't mind helping them spend time as they wish!
Hey Jeff, the build is looking good! Home Depot and Lowe's used to sell half round wood molding in various sizes, I don't know if they still do or not. And I believe some hobby shops carry shaped balsa sticks. If you're careful, you could probably cut some dowel in half on your brand new crappy bandsaw. I would try cutting the end of a long dowel, so you have something to hold onto without getting too close to the blade.

#### T-Rex

TRF Supporter
Very interesting design. Very nice build. I wish I had the $$, tools, time and space to build a project like yours. In my world it's a jigsaw and hand sanding. #### gdjsky01 ##### Whoosh, pop: life is good TRF Supporter Slotting cutting committed. I did not take pics but we are talking a piece of aluminum angle channel as a guide and a fresh single edge razor. #### gdjsky01 ##### Whoosh, pop: life is good TRF Supporter Getting an idea how the fins will look. #### gdjsky01 ##### Whoosh, pop: life is good TRF Supporter Very interesting design. Very nice build. I wish I had the$$, tools, time and space to build a project like yours. In my world it's a jigsaw and hand sanding.
Thanks!!

Rex, my 3 shop tools are low end Delta and Harbor Freight. I know money is different things to different people, but seriously I don't think the three of them cost me more than $350 total. We are talking bottom of the line. I know$350 is a lot of money to many (most). Just sayin' if you want to talk money, talk to someone with Bosch, Jet, or Hitachi shop tools. Yeah they last a lifetime. But at that point, money needs to be no-object.

Captain: I found Apogee sells half round sticks... lord they are expensive. Maybe I'll stick to an exo-skeleton of basswood flat strips!

#### qquake2k

##### Captain Low-N-Slow
Thanks!!

Rex, my 3 shop tools are low end Delta and Harbor Freight. I know money is different things to different people, but seriously I don't think the three of them cost me more than $350 total. We are talking bottom of the line. I know$350 is a lot of money to many (most). Just sayin' if you want to talk money, talk to someone with Bosch, Jet, or Hitachi shop tools. Yeah they last a lifetime. But at that point, money needs to be no-object.

Captain: I found Apogee sells half round sticks... lord they are expensive. Maybe I'll stick to an exo-skeleton of basswood flat strips!

I have an eclectic mix of tools. Craftsman, Delta, Hitachi, Harbor Freight, you name it. They all serve me well.

Have you checked Home Depot or Lowe's for half round molding?

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter
I have an eclectic mix of tools. Craftsman, Delta, Hitachi, Harbor Freight, you name it. They all serve me well.

Have you checked Home Depot or Lowe's for half round molding?
Not yet. I need to run there and get some PVC cleaner (whatever the heck that is) to start my BadAzz Myzztic build. So I'll check it out then. There is no reason I can not use strip wood to create a raised exo-skeleton on the fins to strengthen them and still add to it's looks... I was just thinking small half-rounds might look better.

I guess the closest thing I can liken it to is the panels on a tie fighter. But not quite.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
not sure I am following (likely ignorance on my part.). For the exoskeletal supports to reinforce the longitudinal grain direction, won't they have to be placed perpendicular to the BT and therefore the flight path? In which case wouldn't they cause a lot of drag? Would 1/32 inch basswood cut perpendicular to the current grain direction and laminated to one (or both) sides of the fin (creating a sort of plywood) be do-able and stay in weight limits? I don't have experience in anything but low power. I can say however that this "plywood" technique has held up extremely well on the rotor stops on my choppers, which are subjected to relatively high stresses coming from simultaneous perpendicular forces at rotor deployment. In my case I use two 1/16" balsa pieces. Cutting them is a pain due to grain direction, they split easily UNTIL they are laminated together. But they are lightweight and extremely tough once laminated.

#### qquake2k

##### Captain Low-N-Slow
Not yet. I need to run there and get some PVC cleaner (whatever the heck that is) to start my BadAzz Myzztic build. So I'll check it out then. There is no reason I can not use strip wood to create a raised exo-skeleton on the fins to strengthen them and still add to it's looks... I was just thinking small half-rounds might look better.

I guess the closest thing I can liken it to is the panels on a tie fighter. But not quite.

Either way it should look good.

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter

In this picture you can see I've dry fitted the fins and the motor mount using the ever useful and ubiquitous rubber band. The rubber bands kept enough tension on everything for me to position the fins at a very close to the correct 90 degree angle away from the body tube.

I then ever so gently placed a ring of PML 3.9 inch tubing on the fins... sighted down the top, got it pretty well centered, and marked the fin's leading edges where it touched and therefore about were the thin walled BT-101 tube ring slot will go. Solely eyeballing it. It works for me. :wink:

It would have been grand had ROCKSIM been able to show in the fin template where than intersection was when the template printed out... alas it prints the fin template as if the ring was not there.

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter

Next came a post-fecal "brain expulsion through the rectum of a mixture of gases that are byproducts of the digestion."

:bangpan::bangpan::bangpan::bangpan:

With the fins restacked and re-pin, I took out my little Dremel 4 inch table saw to cut the slots all at once. Pause for a moment... a stack of 5 fins... the TOP fin marked with the length the cut must go... and a CIRCULAR blade...

What happens? oint:oint:oint:oint: :bangpan: :bangpan:
:surprised::surprised::surprised:

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#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter

Correct!!!

The BOTTOM of the stack is cut twice as long as the top of the stack!!!

:bangpan: :bangpan: :bangpan:

I don't know WTF I was thinking. This just goes to show how much better a craftsman you all are than I.

But all is NOT lost.

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#### qquake2k

##### Captain Low-N-Slow

Correct!!!

The BOTTOM of the stack is cut twice as long as the top of the stack!!!

:bangpan: :bangpan: :bangpan:

I don't know WTF I was thinking. This just goes to show how much better a craftsman you all are than I.

But all is NOT lost.
Hey, we're only human. That's why God made Bondo spot putty...

#### jeffgeraci

##### Well-Known Member
OMG Jeff, you mean you gotta cut 5 more fins????? That scenario of the table saw sounds EXACTLY like something I would do twice! Don't tell us you hadthem all sanded too? I feel your pain..... If you have a router table, use that next time.

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter

My sojourn back East is over. Dad is at peace.

So life picks up and move forward. When better way than to pickup on this scratcher...

Someone might have mentioned this, but what I did is measure the slots and mark them. Any excess slot length was filled with Epoxy Clay. I really like the stuff and it's not that expensive on Amazon.

I worked it into the excess slot length and sanded smooth once cured.

The general idea with the rings.

#### gdjsky01

##### Whoosh, pop: life is good
TRF Supporter

With the players all in hand, who can resist a dry fit???? :wink:

Again using rubber bands to provide tension on the "To the aft edge" fin slots I careful dry fitted the fins and rings...
[HR][/HR]
Well... ME LIKING IT!

[HR][/HR]

[HR][/HR]

[HR][/HR]

This one you can see just how far I overshot the slots on the lowest fins in the stack! :surprised: :bangpan::bangpan: