Spray Adhesive

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

dragon_rider10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
699
Reaction score
0
I just picked up a Quest FLV and all the tubes are finished with wraps. Instructions say attach these with spray adhesive. Any recommendations? My only experience with the stuff from years ago recalls a messy, lumpy spray which I doubt would be good for this purpose.
 

dixontj93060

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
13,083
Reaction score
28
Likely they are specifying something like this:



I buy this brand as it is pretty much the same thing as 3M Super 77 but about 2/3rds the cost.
 

troj

Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potent
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
14,467
Reaction score
378
There's a bit of an art to applying spray adhesives.

In addition, it's important to clean the nozzle after using it, or it'll definitely spray lumpy the next time you go to use it.

-Kevin
 

dixontj93060

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
13,083
Reaction score
28
Kevin,

I had a question, how do you clean these nozzles? I've tried turning them upside down (like paint) but that doesn't seem to work.

-Tim
 

mjennings

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
1,791
Reaction score
118
upside down helps for when I've used 3M 77, also the occasional acetone bath.
 

troj

Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potent
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
14,467
Reaction score
378
I had a question, how do you clean these nozzles? I've tried turning them upside down (like paint) but that doesn't seem to work.
Upside down as much as you can, then I typically quickly wipe the excess away from the nozzle.

-Kevin
 

ONAWHIM

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
157
Reaction score
0
Typically spray adhesives are a type of contact cement.
Always read the directions and follow them.

Protect your lungs, wear a dust mask at minimum.
Spray contact cements are usually applied to both sides to be bonded.
Spray each individually.
Let the adhesive set-up and become tacky.
Join the two pieces.

The spray will go where you want it and also go where you don't want it.
I suggest masking off areas that you don't want to get gooked up.

This is something that you don't want to sand once sprayed on (More gook!:()

Find out what is recommended for cleanup. Acetone?Alcohol?
Find out from the directions on the can. Have it handy to spot clean your project and yourself.

Do it out doors.
Do it away from flame.
Try it on something sacrificial so you know what to expect.

Did I mention, read the directions?

A possible alternative are brush on contact cements.

Good luck!

Wm.

If I am wrong on the contact cement part please ignore the above
 
Last edited:

troj

Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potent
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
14,467
Reaction score
378
The spray will go where you want it and also go where you don't want it.
I suggest masking off areas that you don't want to get gooked up.

Do it out doors.
Do it away from flame.
Try it on something sacrificial so you know what to expect.

Did I mention, read the directions?

A possible alternative are brush on contact cements.
I especially agree with the "where you don't want it" part -- it does tend to get everywhere. It's "fun" walking on a basement floor after you've used it, and you can feel your feet sticking to the floor a bit....

Brush on contact cement might work; the aerosols are a bit easier to get in an even layer, in my experience. It would be interesting to try the brush-on with a paper wrap.

-Kevin
 

hcmbanjo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,366
Reaction score
201
Hi John,
The Duro brand is the same one I use. I've had the same can of Duro for a few years and have never had a clogged nozzle.

I only spray it on the wrap, not on both surfaces. This way I can remove and reposition a wrap if I don't get it lined up the first time. (I never get it positioned right the first time.)
If you spray both surfaces, it'll act just like a contact cement bond. With contact cement, once you set it down, it will not come off. You won't be able to remove it and try again.


When spraying it only on one side, sometimes the end edges won't hold or stay down. I usually push a little white glue under the lifting edge with my knife. Then I place a clean piece of printer paper over the seam and burnish down. Using a paper over the wrap will protect the printed image.
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,155
Reaction score
1,334
Location
Savannah Ga
I use alot of spray adhesive [Super 77] and make my own decals,a good tip:

Lay a sheet of newspaper down on the work surface. The overspray is murder to get off things it shouldn't be on!

Spray a light coat on decal and let it dry 30-60 sec.

Then hit the decal with a good coat.

This will help keep it from lifting years later.

The biggest problem first time users have is not getting enough adhesive on the edges. So start spraying a good 3-4 inches from the edge, over the decal and don't stop until another 3-4 past the other edge. That's why the newspaper under it!

If the decals do not have a finish on them [flat] they will stick better and look better if you first spray some clear on both sides.

100_2361.jpg


100_2367.jpg


100_2370.jpg


100_2372.jpg


100_2546.jpg
 
Last edited:

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,155
Reaction score
1,334
Location
Savannah Ga
Another problem is aligning the decals. If it is a a full body wrap you can still mark the tube itself with a small line and dot on decal. It will just be covered after you match it.

Looking below at the pictures;

First position the decal. Dry no glue!
Small tape next to it
Mark a positioning line on the a tape.
There is a matching mark on the decal so small it doesn't show up in the pic, just a pencil dot.

Remove spray decal as advised above. Not the tube.
Hold decal above and lower into matching positions till decal touches tube.

Always start from center outwards when pressing decal down tightly. Prevents wrinkles. If you do it from one end to other and get a wrinkle.....you are toast.

Cut a square out of paper and try it on a paper towel tube or toilet paper core first to work out any bugs.

100_2377.jpg


100_2383.jpg


100_2384.jpg
 
Last edited:

Evo666

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
I was doing the body wrap on the FLV last night and that spray adhesive is very messy. I must have did it wrong where the wrap edge doesn't hold on to well. I ended up using a small amount of wood glue on the edge so it stays.
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,155
Reaction score
1,334
Location
Savannah Ga
I was doing the body wrap on the FLV last night and that spray adhesive is very messy. I must have did it wrong where the wrap edge doesn't hold on to well. I ended up using a small amount of wood glue on the edge so it stays.
See post # 10
 

luke strawwalker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,147
Reaction score
20
If they're paper wraps, you might consider using the "Zooch method"...

Dr. Zooch uses TONS of paper wraps in his kits, printed on cardstock usually. His instructions are: 1) cut out the wraps, test fit them and gently curl them to the contour of the rocket at the same time. Once you're reasonably sure they'll fit well, 2) apply about a half-inch wide band of glue VERY THINLY all the way around the perimeter of the wrap. Align one edge with the reference line on the side of the tube (like a fin line the length of the tube) and then 3) gently roll the wrap onto the tube.

DO NOT apply white glue ALL OVER the back of the wrap-- they'll warp, won't lay down smooth, and leave ugly 'glue lines' underneath the wrap.

I've used the zooch method with great success on many of his kits.

Good luck! OL JR :)
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,250
Reaction score
22
Interesting about Dr. Z's technique. Having built a number of cardstock models, I am accustomed to the technique of using the edge of a craft stick to squeegee a very thin layer of white glue over the entire back of a piece of cardstock and then immediately applying it to its intended location. I have used that technique with stock as thin as index cards with absolutely no problems with wrinkling or lifting. Jim is right; no matter what adhesive you use, you need to make sure that you get an even layer out to the very edge. The stock that Dr. Z. uses for his wraps is just a smidgen softer and more absorbent than what I am accustomed to using, but in my one experience so far with them, they went on without a hitch with my usual method. Nevertheless, I'll give that technique that you described a try, next time.

MarkII
 

Dr.Zooch

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,123
Reaction score
14
That is because I get my card stock from a top secret location that is not accessible to anyone other than special card holders who have to pay to get in... Sam's Club. ;)
 

luke strawwalker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,147
Reaction score
20
Interesting about Dr. Z's technique. Having built a number of cardstock models, I am accustomed to the technique of using the edge of a craft stick to squeegee a very thin layer of white glue over the entire back of a piece of cardstock and then immediately applying it to its intended location. I have used that technique with stock as thin as index cards with absolutely no problems with wrinkling or lifting. Jim is right; no matter what adhesive you use, you need to make sure that you get an even layer out to the very edge. The stock that Dr. Z. uses for his wraps is just a smidgen softer and more absorbent than what I am accustomed to using, but in my one experience so far with them, they went on without a hitch with my usual method. Nevertheless, I'll give that technique that you described a try, next time.

MarkII
Ummm... Mark?? What exactly are you DOING with your cardstock?? :eyepop:

I don't usually think of "softer and more absorbent" when I think of cardstock... I'd tend to think cardstock would be more like "John Wayne" than anything else... :jaw:

You talking cardstock or TP here?? LOL:) :roll::roll::confused2::neener:

Later! OL JR :)
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,250
Reaction score
22
Ummm... Mark?? What exactly are you DOING with your cardstock?? :eyepop:

I don't usually think of "softer and more absorbent" when I think of cardstock... I'd tend to think cardstock would be more like "John Wayne" than anything else... :jaw:

You talking cardstock or TP here?? LOL:) :roll::roll::confused2::neener:

Later! OL JR :)
It doesn't have as hard and smooth of a finish as the stuff I am accustomed to using. (G-P 110 lb. cardstock.) Not better, not worse, just different. It is somewhat more pliable and it soaks up glue more readily. I had to slightly adjust my technique for applying wraps as a result.

MarkII
 

luke strawwalker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,147
Reaction score
20
It doesn't have as hard and smooth of a finish as the stuff I am accustomed to using. (G-P 110 lb. cardstock.) Not better, not worse, just different. It is somewhat more pliable and it soaks up glue more readily. I had to slightly adjust my technique for applying wraps as a result.

MarkII
Ah, Ok... that makes sense... I haven't really had that much experience with different cardstocks, or at least haven't really noticed the differences.

Sorry for being a smartaleck, but you stepped in front of that one... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)
 

dragon_rider10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
699
Reaction score
0
An update on the wraps. I used the white glue method, but wasn't thrilled with the results.
The wraps themselves are a high gloss paper. They feel like magazine pages. The white glue was hard to squeegie consistently. Frequently, because of the gloss, it would squeegie completely clean. From 10 feet the finished product looks fine, but the seams are ugly when you're on top of it. When/if I do another one, I'll try something else. I was too cheap/impatient to get the spray stuff.

Here's the end result at 90% complete.
 
Last edited:

Scotty Dog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
7,439
Reaction score
269
When I did the wraps on my Saturn V. (They are plastic wraps) I first wrapped them around the rocket (dry) and put a load of elastic bands around them.After about aweek I removed the bands and the wraps somewhat stayed in a round shape. This help some when it came time to apply super 77 and put them on for good. I also put the bands on after the super 77 to hold in place agaisnt the tube.. So I had an other idea and tried it on a scrap piece of plastic wrap. Wrapped a piece around a tube ,put the bands on and then heated it with a hair dryer-not to hot tho. The wrap stayed in the shape way better. I going to use this method when I build another rocket that has plastic wraps. Scotty Dog
 

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
8,250
Reaction score
22
When I did the wraps on my Saturn V. (They are plastic wraps) I first wrapped them around the rocket (dry) and put a load of elastic bands around them.After about aweek I removed the bands and the wraps somewhat stayed in a round shape. This help some when it came time to apply super 77 and put them on for good. I also put the bands on after the super 77 to hold in place agaisnt the tube.. So I had an other idea and tried it on a scrap piece of plastic wrap. Wrapped a piece around a tube ,put the bands on and then heated it with a hair dryer-not to hot tho. The wrap stayed in the shape way better. I going to use this method when I build another rocket that has plastic wraps. Scotty Dog
I accomplish the same thing with cardstock wraps by rolling them around an object that is smaller in diameter than the intended tube. For wraps that are rather stiff, I roll them up, place them inside a smaller tube and leave them there overnight. No rubber bands needed.

MarkII
 

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
15,074
Reaction score
51
Location
Washington DC
I've been following this tread wondering way no one has mentioned the other commonly used technique for applying cardstock or plastic wraps on models.

Couldn't agree more with Jim's method, and have used Doc's recently on one of his models with pretty far success.

Heres another method, not involving either spray glues or super thinnly applied white glues, instead good old solvent based Weldwood contact cement.

Back in the day, this was the method taught with the OLD Estes Saturn-V embossed cardstock bodywraps.
As Mark as said. Most body wraps need or in my mind should be pre-rolled a few times and dry fitted to ensure they are EXACTLY the proper size at that exact place on the tube. Folks do remember bodytube manufacturers produce to the Inside dimension, outside there is a pretty go tolerance margin;) A particular tube may very well Not be exactly the same OD along the enter length. Measure and cut your wraps to the exact area they will be applied.
It is also extreamly important to have a well marked starting line within the application areas. apply a thin film of contact cement to both surfaces and allow to completely dry. Then using a sheet of wax paper between the wrap and body tube carefully align the starting edge, pulling the wax paper back only a tad to allow a single corner to touch when you have the start line and construction lines indexed. Slowly back off the wax paper while pressing the wrap down on the tube the rest of the way. Sounds complicated but it really isn't. This does not work well with cardstock models however as some of the contact cement seems to always end up outside the completed wrap edges. excess cement can be cleaned up before painting on body tubes, but not so much on per-printed paper models.
I've tired the wax paper interleaf trick with 3m 77 spary with mixed results. sometimes it does not release well from the wax paper.

About the only pics I have of this type application are of some very old 70's vacuum formed .010" styene wraps used on a recent Orion build. This is not an end all answer but another option for both cardstock and plastic body wraps.

472p07a-sm_Applying Contact Cement of Lg Wrap_01-13-08.JPG


472p07b-sm_Contact Cement on back of Wraps_01-13-08.JPG


472p07c1-sm_Rolling on sm Wrap_01-13-08.JPG
 
Last edited:

Scotty Dog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
7,439
Reaction score
269
All good ideas. I like the one about rolling the wraps up and inserting in a tube. One thing I thought about on the way to work this morn was using that Elastic bandage stuff to hold the wrap in place while the glue drys. Its that stuff that kinda like between an ace bandage and velcro.Anywhoo- Its Friday and Payday and its going to be a SWEET weekend up here in NH. I will be launching baby!!! Scotty Dog
 

RockItDad

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
I'm in the middle of an Estes Saturn V construction (kit 2157) and stumbled across a method that is working marvelously:

Cut and trim your wraps to exact size and align on the model, NO GLUE, affixed with rubber bands. When it is arranged EXACTLY like you want it, place a "dab" of CA on the opposite side of the seam on both top and bottom of the wrap. Let dry. Remove rubber bands, apply CA to one side of the wrap, put into position - hold, and then the other side.

Perfect alignment, speed, strength and light weight of CA. Win-win-win-win in my book!

IMG_6382_1.JPG
 
Last edited:
Top