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Yes but if you use it in your home you probably won't get it pass an electrical inspector. No electrical inspection, no insurance.
If you build it properly, it shouldn't be a problem. From a connection perspective an off grid system with a connection to use power to charge your batteries is considered as an appliance. Like a kettle. ish.
A grid tied connection where you feed power back to the grid has to be compliant with the grid requirements such as not feeding back to the grid if there's a grid outage, limits on how much you can feed into the grid and may include limits on the size of the solar array although in general terms that's usually inverter export limits now. YMMV. But in short, if you have a grid tied system there are more rules than fot connecting a kettle.
The batteries I got were GreenBank 16.8KWh units x2. @Au$6k each
This gives me 3 full days of storage. More than that however is that at peak load 8KW from the inverter, the load on each battery is halved and my average daily battery discharge is only 10%. Significantly increasing battery life on an exponential slope. This is like running your car on a nice low. rev cruise rather than redlining the engine every time you use it as you'd get if you just get a single small battery.
But to be clear. I'm not advocating for or against anything for YOUR situation. You need to know the rules. But buying from the TESLA salesman, will get you a TESLA price.
Norm
 
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If you build it properly, it shouldn't be a problem. From a connection perspective an off grid system with a connection to use power to charge your batteries is considered as an appliance. Like a kettle. ish.
A grid tied connection where you feed power back to the grid has to be compliant with the grid requirements such as not feeding back to the grid if there's a grid outage, limits on how much you can feed into the grid and may include limits on the size of the solar array although in general terms that's usually inverter export limits now. YMMV. But in short, if you have a grid tied system there are more rules than fot connecting a kettle.
The batteries I got were GreenBank 16.8KWh units x2. @Au$6k each
This gives me 3 full days of storage. More than that however is that at ppeak load 8KW from the inverter, the load on each battery is halved and my average daily battery discharge is only 10%. Significantly increasing battery life on an exponential slope. This is like running your car on a nice low. rev cruise rather than redlining the engine every time you use it as you'd get if you just get a single small battery.
But to be clear. I'm not advocating for or against anything for YOUR situation. You need to know the rules. But buying from the TESLA salesman, will get you a TESLA price.
Norm
It's probably worth pointing out here that rules in Oz are likely different from the US, and that many states and municipalities will have their own rules too.
 
It's probably worth pointing out here that rules in Oz are likely different from the US, and that many states and municipalities will have their own rules too.
The rules at any location could be different and it's up to the individual to make sure they are compliant or comfortable with being non-compliant..
That's the same for anything you do in life. :)
 
If you search YouTube there are a number of channels that show you how to build your own battery packs. Most of them use LiFePo4 batteries. They cover testing the batteries, how to wire them, and how to choose and install a Battery Management System. So if you has some DIY skills you can build a storage battery system for a lot less than a commercial unit.

This channel is pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/@RayBuildsCoolStuff
I have no desire to build my own batteries. I am looking at Trophy batteries as they have an internal heater, and my shed is not heated. Grid tie is not an option, if it was I would just use the grid. The biggest issue is I need to do a ground mount in rocky soil that can handle 100 mph winds and snow loads. Thats the biggest expense.
 
I have no desire to build my own batteries. I am looking at Trophy batteries as they have an internal heater, and my shed is not heated. Grid tie is not an option, if it was I would just use the grid. The biggest issue is I need to do a ground mount in rocky soil that can handle 100 mph winds and snow loads. Thats the biggest expense.
If you have the space, get an insulated shipping container. Could be used as a safety spot if you get 100mph winds.
Spec looks good. They look to be rack mounted, which could be awkward with the weight of them. Mine is about the same capacity as their largest and it's a bear to move even on castors.
Good luck on your journey.
 
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Darn hail went straight for the solar farms and spared everything else I bet 😆. It mostly does that when the solar panels aren’t insured.

🌅

Formula to figure out how many panels a house needs:

https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-an...ny-solar-panels-you-need-to-power-your-house/
The particular home they work things out for is using nearly 50kWh per day. That's excessive....... I'm using on average 10-15 kWh daily depending on if I'm generating it. In summer when the sun is out there I can generate more and use that for the aircon I need. So these generalised calculations do not tell the whole story, which is why it's taken me 2 years of use and modification of my behavior to get my usage down to match what I can get from 6kW of panels.
My behavior modification has reduced the cost of the system I needed to install. I've modified the battery storage up from 16kWh to 32kWh at the same time to modify the system to meet my needs. So for me, I've minimised my costs by modifying both my usage and the system performance.
My system now matches my requirements.
 
Darn hail went straight for the solar farms and spared everything else I bet 😆. It mostly does that when the solar panels aren’t insured.

🌅

Formula to figure out how many panels a house needs:

https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-an...ny-solar-panels-you-need-to-power-your-house/
from the story
"
Day said that the region around southeast Wyoming has some of the highest frequencies of hailstorms in the country.

“It’s ground zero,” Day said.

The average is seven to nine hailstorms per year. That includes everything from pea-sized to baseball-sized hail.

“Scottsbluff last Friday night was just absolutely pummeled,” Day said. "

So perhaps not the best location for a solar farm. Someone made a CHOICE to locate it in a known hail area.
 
I've only experienced golf-ball sized hail and it was crazy loud. I imagine baseball size would have been insane if you were in a car or house. pi()r^2 is a bad enough gain on diameter. 4/3pi()r^3 would be terrible!
 
I've only experienced golf-ball sized hail and it was crazy loud. I imagine baseball size would have been insane if you were in a car or house. pi()r^2 is a bad enough gain on diameter. 4/3pi()r^3 would be terrible!
My car got caught in the big Sydney hailstorm in 99. looked like 6 guys with baseball bats had beaten the crap out of it. The damage was spectacular. Written off. Gave it to one of the guys I worked with. He cut the roof off it and used it as a run around on the film lot. No idea what happened to it after that.
 
My car got caught in the big Sydney hailstorm in 99. looked like 6 guys with baseball bats had beaten the crap out of it. The damage was spectacular. Written off. Gave it to one of the guys I worked with. He cut the roof off it and used it as a run around on the film lot. No idea what happened to it after that.
Yeah that’s my point. If the hail destroyed the solar panels, it also destroyed cars and glass and houses and buildings. Ground zero hail is not a place to build anything. So my spidey senses come on when people are only interested in the solar panels being destroyed and not the rest. 🤔😕🤨🕵️‍♂️

Looking for ways to mitigate would be interesting though. By changing orientation perhaps.
 
Yeah that’s my point. If the hail destroyed the solar panels, it also destroyed cars and glass and houses and buildings. Ground zero hail is not a place to build anything. So my spidey senses come on when people are only interested in the solar panels being destroyed and not the rest. 🤔😕🤨🕵️‍♂️

Looking for ways to mitigate would be interesting though. By changing orientation perhaps.
Or have them on a rolling track and pack them away like a horizontal Venetian blind. But more importantly, that loss of generation capacity to the grid has to be mitigated through either storage or an increase in output from other generation plants. The current planning seems to revolve around using the existing distribution system which is based on decentralised generation usually at the source of fuel, coal, or gas or a place far away enough that we're happy to put nuclear there. These decisions are made by governments, and they're only in power for a few years, the politicians don't want to upset the apple cart much as they want to get re-elected. And the industries they'd upset are where they look for jobs after politics. So you're not going to want to upset your prospective new employer.

Some proper long term thinking is what's required. Like the Chinese do with their 100 year plan. That gives industry clarity to be able to invest in the future.
 
Or have them on a rolling track and pack them away like a horizontal Venetian blind. But more importantly, that loss of generation capacity to the grid has to be mitigated through either storage or an increase in output from other generation plants. ...
The other plants could also be solar. A hail storm is quite localized.
 
My interest in boating for pleasure is very low, but I could very well see myself parking in one of these floating solar docks:

View attachment 592565

https://faroboats.com/home
I live in NW Wisconsin & grew up in Duluth, MN. Both states have a ton of lakes, especially up north. Almost everyone who has a cabin has a pontoon boat and they basically putt-putt the lakes very slowly while usually having evening cocktails.

I've always wondered why no one has developed a solar powered electric pontoon boat. Almost all of them have canopies overhead. A large electric trolling motor will push them along fine. And with the advent of LiFPo4 batteries that are much lighter in weight than lead-acid and longer lived I don't understand why not.

Most cabin owners come up on the weekends. So the batteries could be charging all week long.
 
... developed a solar powered electric pontoon boat. Almost all of them have canopies overhead. A large electric trolling motor will push them along fine. And with the advent of LiFPo4 batteries that are much lighter in weight than lead-acid and longer lived I don't understand why not.

Most cabin owners come up on the weekends. So the batteries could be charging all week long.
It sure makes sense to me. Probably the only thing that could get me into boating.

Graph and article comparing trends in solar and EVs:

EV-sales-adoption-faster-solar-PV-sales-adoption.png

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/07/1...t-but-electric-vehicle-growth-is-much-faster/
 
There may be a down side. too much of a good thing?

INTERSPACE TELEX FROM SPACE COMMAND
URGENT: You have been ordered to take IMMEDIATE command of the Uranus Explorer II.
BACKGROUND: In the first half of the 21st century, concerns on Earth mounted regarding global warming. While there was a great uproar about changing human behavior to combat this menace, the problem solved itself in the second half of the century. While the well-meaning efforts of the "Greens," as they came to be called, may have had some impact, the finite supplies of fossil fuels expired by 2075. In addition, to fight the obesity epidemic, the fast food enterprises were vilified by the population. Ronald McDonald was hung in effigy in several countries. Since beef hamburgers were the main stock in trade for these restaurants, the demand for beef largely expired with the fast food franchises. The final major source of greenhouse gasses, the cattle farms, also went the way of the dinosaur. The global warming scare was over.
The loss of cheap fuel and fast foods led to a progressive sense of dissatisfaction among the people of Earth, who attempted to drown their sorrows in entertainment. VCRs and DVD players gave way to IPods, Androids, Playstations, Wiis, and other devices, all of which shared two features. First, they required electricity. Second, they were a mindless waste of time.
To replace the fossil fuels, the people of Earth maximized their use of renewable energy sources, including Wind, Geothermal, Hydroelectric, and Solar. The first three were largely limited by geography. Solar, however, was only limited by surface area. By the year 2125, solar "farms" had sprung up over much of the Earth’s surface, including Antarctica, and floating solar "mats" covered much of the oceans. Low Earth Orbit solar satellites created a virtual "traffic jam" in the skies, to the chagrin of terrestrial astronomers. Looking up at the sky at night, more stars "moved" than remained in once place.
The combination of the loss of greenhouse gas generators and the impact of solar collectors shading much of Earth’s surface as well as filling the skies had an effect that should have been anticipated--- the Earth's climate was heading for a second Ice Age. Temperatures plummeted.
Many different plans to restore the greenhouse gas "blanket" were attempted. A nationwide chili marathon was probably the most grandiose. It had little effect on the global atmosphere, but resulted in numerous hospitalizations throughout the state of Texas dues to the accumulation of noxious gases. In desperation, the people of Earth looked to the skies for help. The United States, once an importer of fossil fuels, now developed a plan to import greenhouse gases from space.
Of the four planetary gas giants, the highest concentrations of methane are found around Uranus, at roughly 2% of the atmosphere by volume. While further away than Saturn and Jupiter, manned expeditions to Uranus in 2186 found the planet had a rocky core with numerous central caverns. Concentrations of methane within the caverns approached 75%. Unlike Saturn and Jupiter, the caverns could be sealed, cleared of the methane, heated, and pressurized. In other words, there could be life inside Uranus.
Drilling operations began in 2192, and the planet was formally colonized under the leadership of Admiral Ezekiel Koli in 2199. The fecundity of E. Koli's descendents became legendary, and within 5 years the colonists had spread throughout the bowels of the planet. Methane gas generated within the rocky core was diverted to natural "vents" on the planet surface. This gas was collected in Surface Repositories (dubbed "SuPositories.") The SuPositories were then harvested by tanker ships and the gas was transported to Earth. The effort has been thus far successful. Earth's temperatures have stabilized and are gradually returning to 21st century levels. The only casualty was the state of Utah, which seceded from the Union when the restoration of "normal" temperatures forced them to abandon plans for year-round skiing.
During the drilling operations on Uranus, miners discovered rich deposits of Amodium. Existing in two chemical isomers, the "L" or levo form and the "D" or dextro form, Uranian Amodium was predominantly in the D isomer. Valued for its medical properties, Amodium-D is extremely useful in the treatment of dysentery. Earth's Amodium supplies were exhausted in the early 21st century in a vain attempt to stem the tide of large fecal outflows from Washington, D.C. Uranus produces 80% of the pharmaceutical grade Amodium-D in the solar system. The only other major supply of Amodium-D is in the asteroid belt. Tanker ships, notorious for poor hygiene, were plagued with dysentery and the production of Amodium around Uranus rivaled the methane mining operations in profitability.
The growing population inside Uranus yearned for the same amenities and distractions as their distant Earthly cousins. Entrepreneurs, ever anxious to make a credit, established venues on the Uranian satellites, including a Disney Theme Park, "Part of Your World," on the satellite Ariel, a Lane Bryant Woman's Clothing outlet store on the satellite Titania, and a romantic bed and breakfast getaway, "A Quiver of Love" on the satellite Cupid. By 2250, Uranian commerce had established a respectable amount of regularity.
Unfortunately, the hygienic habits of the Tanker ship crews did not improve. Due to failure in interspace decontamination procedures, one or more tankers have carried a type of "animal fungus" from the asteroids to the surface of Uranus. These vile creatures reproduce rapidly and are incredibly adherent to the rock and ice surface of the Uranian core. They are particularly attracted to the relative heat around the vents of Uranus. Dubbed, "Cling-Ons" by the colonists, the invaders have destroyed the SuPositories and have multiplied to the extent that they are now obstructing many of the methane outlets. The buildup of pressure behind the vents is reaching dangerous levels, producing dyspepsia, nausea, and vomiting among the population of the planet. Mining operations of Amodium-D have ground to a halt. Because there is no local supply, an outbreak of dysentery on the satellite Oberon has required importation of Amodium from the asteroid belt. This has put an incredible load on an already strained interplanetary supply system.
The situation is now CRITICAL.
We have deployed Remotely Operated Infrared Detectors (ROIDs) within all the major vents to monitor the situation. The ROIDs will detect focal temperature increases which herald obstruction. Additional SuPositories have been prepared to replace those destroyed by the Cling-Ons. The Jovian and Saturnine Fleets have been redirected to assist in the emergency.
The initial scout ship, the Uranus Explorer, was mothballed in 2195. It has been recommissioned for the rescue effort. The previous BVD-1 subspace engine has been upgraded to the BVD-2. The ship has also been augmented by 4 Procto and Gamble Sharmin "Ultra" outboard engines to give it interplanetary capability at 0.25 light speed.
Your mission is as follows:
  1. Rendezvous with the USS Colon Powell (commanded by Admiral Sigmoid Koli) and guide the Fleets in the evacuation of Uranus.
  2. Scour Uranus and wipe out the Cling-Ons.
  3. Monitor the ROIDs. At any hint of sensitivity, insert the replacement SuPositories to relieve the obstructed vents.
  4. Restore Amodium-D mining operations, to reduce the frequency and urgency of the runs between the asteroids and Uranus.
Addendum: On successful completion of this mission, you and your spouse are authorized a 30 day furlough at the "Quiver of Love" on Cupid. Remember, with 27 satellites, there is always a full moon around Uranus.
END TRANSMISSION
 
There may be a down side. too much of a good thing? ...
I enjoy going back to 80's sci-fi and earlier, but I don't care very much for the new stuff.

I find it unfortunate that some people immediately associate solar power with "green", which has become a derogatory term in some circles. Solar power is first of all a LED in reverse, so I find it ridiculous to attack solar.

If anyone is interested in discussing global warming, I can start a thread on it, but few people have shown interest in the Atmospheric Science thread (despite being exactly where rockets and planes fly, and which would include warming and many other atmospheric phenomena).

I'll stick with solar power in this one (factual solar systems, not fictional). While mildly entertaining, I don't see a down side to solar power in your post.

:cool:☀️😎☀️😎☀️😎☀️

First principles:

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/how-does-solar-work
First Solar news:

https://solarmagazine.com/2023/07/first-solar-to-supply-5-gwdc-thin-film-modules-to-energix/
 
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I have solar installed and it produces 99.9% of the power I use in a year. In the last year, I used 4kWh from the grid.
I have it simply because it makes economic sense for me to have it and gives me battery backup for 3 days should the grid fail.
Payback is 8 years. Now 7 as it's been running for a year. Now 6 years as electricity prices have just gone up 25%
Do your own math. I've already presented it in multiple places on this forum and provided the suppliers and prices that anyone can use.
Your solution will vary depending on your location. My electricity prices in Australia are significantly higher than yours probably are.
So short version. There is, for some people, (me, maybe you) the technology available at reasonable prices to allow them to BE ABLE to disconnect from the grid.
It's the economics that will drive the solution.

They've already driven mine. Not sure the power company will like it when I disconnect. But they created their own economics.
Norm
 
Our tv news tonight had a story on solar power for homes. I don't know how accurate any of the figures are.

Their claim was a system for an average house would cost $20-25k to install, minus some tax incentives that might be available. The average system would save $1,000-1,500 per year off of the electric bill. This sounded a bit low to me. The last claim was that it would take 16-25 years to break even.
 
The last claim was that it would take 16-25 years to break even.

The system we’re putting in showed a 12 year payoff on the first quote last September. Then 11 years at a March re-quote. Upped the specs marginally and we’re looking at 9 years as at contract date.

Grid power is ridiculously expensive, and here, downright unreliable.
 
Lets say you have $20K to spend on a home solar system, and you would like a payback in 10 years. 10 years returns on a conservative portfolio are about 6% annual. In 10 year that $20K would have grown to $35K. If your solar system hasn't returned $35K in savings net of repairs and maintenance, you have not made the best investment. Of course there are other vectors of value some may have with home solar, like independence, cool factor, hobby, feel good etc that are not to be discounted at all. But for most situations, financial performance is not one of them.
 
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Lets say you have $20K to spend on a home solar system, and you would like a payback in 10 years. 10 years returns on a conservative portfolio are about 6% annual. In 10 year that $20K would have grown to $35K. If your solar system hasn't returned $35K in savings net of repairs and maintenance, you have not made the best investment. Of course there are other vectors of value some may have with home solar, like independence, cool factor, hobby, feel good etc that are not to be discounted at all. But for most situations, financial performance is not one of them.
Comparing a solar system to a financial investment is comparing apples and oranges. People do not buy a solar system for the ROI. They buy it because they need electricity period. And it returns the most savings IN THE LONG RUN than being connected to the grid, depending on individual circumstances.
The payoff period shortens as the price of electricity from the grid increases in the future.
Unless you think the price of electricity is going to go down in the next decade.
Why do you think that nearly a third of single family homes here have rooftop solar?
Twice the percent as California.
High grid prices (over 40 cents per kwh), plenty of sunshine and a strange desire to save money are the driving factors.
 
You are right about future skyrocketing costs of electricity. That is what happens when your require two systems to provide reliable power.
 
You are right about future skyrocketing costs of electricity. That is what happens when your require two systems to provide reliable power.
It would be more expensive to continue feeding an archaic grid with fossil fuel generated electricity.
Price of fossil fuels have been rising faster than the overall inflation rate.
In fact fossil fuel prices have been a key driver in the highest inflation rates in over 40 years.
And I wouldn't call the current antiquated grid "reliable" by any stretch of the imagination.
Just suffered through a blackout the other day just before midnight.
Frustrating because I was working on something on my computer.
Looking forward to grid updates and modernization to come.
 
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