Society Ending? Poll to follow-up on the Prepper thread

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How likely is it that civilized society will break down in the next 40 years?

  • More than a 50% chance

  • Between 10% and 50%

  • More than 2%, less than 10%

  • Around 1-2%

  • Well under 1%


Results are only viewable after voting.
Frankly...I'm tired of doomsday scenarios. I've been steeped in them all my life...nuclear war / nuclear winter fears in the 70's and 80's, rogue states in the 90's, terrorism OVER REACTION in the aughties... and life goes on. Nothing terrible is going to happen.

But, people and fads change. Just get on with it, don't worry, be happy, KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON etc. :tongue:

And enjoy your continued access to the coolest hobby on the planet.
 
End ALL human society, globally, all at once? Not a chance, unless our species suddenly goes extinct. And in that event, all of the stockpiling won't do anyone a bit of good. The human species succeeded and dominated the world by virtue of the fact that humans have an astounding ability to work cooperatively and to share. It is what distinguishes us from all of the other primates, and in fact, nearly all other species. Do you think that anything you have or use was created by a single person, working alone? Certainly not now, and not at anytime in human history has that ever been true. Cooperation and altruism are natural human traits and have been the hallmarks of the genus Homo (human) right from the very start. The only way to extinguish that is to extinguish the entire human population, and if that was ever impending, then no amount of prepping would make the slightest difference. By far our best resource for survival is each other. All of these doomsday scenarios assume that all of people's ability to communicate, share and cooperate for the benefit of all will totally disappear. Sorry, but that just ain't gonna happen. If we ever do that, then we all die. Humans cannot survive in isolation; we aren't built that way.
 
Wow! Youse guys type way fast this reply was to post #30.....So THAT explains where my socks in the dryer go....I always wondered what the 'entropy' button was for......
 
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Frankly...I'm tired of doomsday scenarios. I've been steeped in them all my life...nuclear war / nuclear winter fears in the 70's and 80's, rogue states in the 90's, terrorism OVER REACTION in the aughties... and life goes on. Nothing terrible is going to happen.

But, people and fads change. Just get on with it, don't worry, be happy, KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON etc. :tongue:

And enjoy your continued access to the coolest hobby on the planet.

You may think it's a fad, but it also may be, because of the internet, cable and satellite tv, people are much more aware of possible doomsday scenarios or some of the other dangers that might face us. Or as Jp pointed out we are more aware of history when there have been events that could disrupt society as we know it. I too have lived though a lot of scenarios that did not materialise and thankfully so but have also experienced disasters that crippled L.A and S.F. for a short time. I saw people who were not prepared get desperate because they could not go to a store or a restaurant for food because they were not open or roads were blocked. Or perhaps you have not experienced, like I have, not having any money or food and sneaking into farmers fields for a head of cabbage for dinner. It can be really scary.

I'm not one to put a lot of faith in the asteroid hit or super volcano scenarios but I think there is a real possibilty for world economic collapse. We came close to that in 08 and the next time might be much worse so I'm planning accordingly. You may think the government will pull a rabbit out of it's hat and fix things, just dont forget it was primarily the government that gets us into these messes to begin with and you certainly cant depend on the the government to take care of you if something bad does happen.

So keep on thinking nothing is going to happen if that makes you happy, but when it does happen I will be comfortable knowing you are standing in Fema food lines and I wont be!
 
Could it be that many folks feel this way because the world population has more than doubled in thier lifetime?
Yes it is a shocking and terrible thing, particularly if you are a nature nut like myself. But an increase in population makes the destruction of society less likely, not more.

As big as that event was it was nothing compared to the Toba event 70k years ago. Toba resulted in a decade long volcanic winter and 1000 years of planetary cooling. That one dang near did us all in and is the reason that all of us can trace our mitochondrial DNA back to one woman in Africa.

Yes toba came the closest, but it hit at a time when the total human population was in the thousands, and spread out over a very small area. With billions of humans around the globe, including Antartica and space, no volcano could do it anymore. Not even the Yellowstone Caldera...

The Black death of the 1300s by most accounts killed 1 in 4 of every human on the planet and killed about half of the population of Europe in just 2 years time. If half of the people on the planet dissapeared today our systems would collapse resulting in further deaths.
The black death was serious, but could in no way cause extinction. Many Europeans were naturally resistant, and no one in North or South America (a few million at the time) died from it. We have achieved massive redundancy by spreading out.


Our dependence on modern technology makes us more vulnerable to system collapse. The spanish flu 1918-1920 killed more than 50 million or about 3% of the world population. It probably would have killed many more if it were not limited by the trasportation systems of the day. History is full of pandemics that did some real damage to earths population. Malaria, Typhus, Cholera, and Small Pox have all kicked our butt at one time or another. Influenza, measels and small pox ran through the new world unchecked and killed an estimated 80% of the native populations within 100 years.

I totally agree about the risk of severe pandemic today, with mass transit. A few terrorists with some ebola tissue samples flying around the world scares the crap out of me. Good thing they are not very smart or interested in subtle plans like that. But a disease could not kill all humans. The last few will be isolated and cut off as others die, and there are always resistant populations. Again there is good redundancy to survive any disease or disaster short of an impact event.

Of course the events of the past century brought us to the verge of thermonuclear armageddon on more than one occassion. The possibility of nuclear war hasn't diminshed by that much or at all over the past several decades. There are still more than enough bombs in the world to finish us off and it only takes one incident to get the ball rolling.

Nuclear war is the most likely severe disaster, and the one that I plan for. That is funny since considering my place of residence, I would be within a few miles of several 300 kt detonations. The only hope is if I happen to be in the subway when it happens. However nuclear war cannot directly kill all humans. The megattonage is enough if spread out perfectly. But it cannot be spread out perfectly. North America, Europe, and Asia would be decimated. But even in these places, many would survive. In South America, Africa, The Pacific islands... the damage would be relatively minor. Even with possible nuclear winter, famine, etc... the harm would be terrible, but not enough to cause extinction. If anything, it would only be the first step on a long road to extinction. But my gut tells me that humans are like rats, and we will be around for a long time in some form. Will humans last forever? Biologically that seems unlikely, with the wildcard being space exploration and expansion to other planets. We have been slacking on that front.

Everyone I know always hopes for the best but many are preparing for the worst. Perhaps many of the prepper types are lacking in science education but it seems those who would readily dismiss thier concerns are a little short on history.
How can someone prepare for something they don't understand? I don't dismiss their claims mostly because they make no coherent claims. Come at me with specifics, as you have done above, because you are smarter than all of the survivors ive seen on tv combined, and we can run them down point for point. And when doing that, we find that none of the supposed disasters, even if they would be much worse than Y2K et al, would cause human extinction. Reducing our standards, we could expect major local disruptions to society from time to time. One can prepare for this. But even still, I fail to see the historical record of these things going on so frequently. When was the last time a society collapsed and was not replaced with some other society soon after?

I guess my advice would be to buy two shotguns and plenty of 00 to boot. That is a years worth of food, water, and petrol right there.
 
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My one post.

There will be shifts in power globally and regionally. Some people will be doing well while others will be doing worse. Its not in our hands to control.

I think a lot of people have significantly elevated self image. Part of bringing value to that type of life could be figuring out how to beat the end or save the world or save your family. There aren't any hero's like you read in the Tom Clancy books or watch on TV. There are real heroes who help people, but you'll never meet Jack Bauer.

Live your life. Help out where you can. If you see someone who needs help, stop and help. I don't see any reason to horde canned peas in case I'll need them someday when there is someone else who actually needs them today.

I'm fine with being wrong, so no need to point out my mistakes.

Sandy.
 
That wonderful line from "The American President" certainly seems to apply in this case: "He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it."

You may think it's a fad, but it also may be, because of the internet, cable and satellite tv, people are much more aware of possible doomsday scenarios or some of the other dangers that might face us. Or as Jp pointed out we are more aware of history when there have been events that could disrupt society as we know it. I too have lived though a lot of scenarios that did not materialise and thankfully so but have also experienced disasters that crippled L.A and S.F. for a short time. I saw people who were not prepared get desperate because they could not go to a store or a restaurant for food because they were not open or roads were blocked. Or perhaps you have not experienced, like I have, not having any money or food and sneaking into farmers fields for a head of cabbage for dinner. It can be really scary.

I'm not one to put a lot of faith in the asteroid hit or super volcano scenarios but I think there is a real possibilty for world economic collapse. We came close to that in 08 and the next time might be much worse so I'm planning accordingly. You may think the government will pull a rabbit out of it's hat and fix things, just dont forget it was primarily the government that gets us into these messes to begin with and you certainly cant depend on the the government to take care of you if something bad does happen.

So keep on thinking nothing is going to happen if that makes you happy, but when it does happen I will be comfortable knowing you are standing in Fema food lines and I wont be!
 
That wonderful line from "The American President" certainly seems to apply in this case: "He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it."

Lov that movie! I'm due to watch it again.
 
...

So keep on thinking nothing is going to happen if that makes you happy, but when it does happen I will be comfortable knowing you are standing in Fema food lines and I wont be!

Starting to get personal are we? I never said anything about preparedness...I just tried to convey that I refuse to live in fear. Is all.
 
I see it this way: The world has gone thru and still is and always will be to some point, biological, economic, social, and natural disasters, and some mighty big ones at that. So far so good. Certainly things can change. I'm not going to worry about it.

I'll live today to the best I can and worry about tomorrow when it comes. My life could be over in an instant by an everyday event. Am I going to spend every waking second worrying about it??? NOT ME!!!!!
 
Is it in the future, yes. Will it happen in my life time, maybe. Does it really matter, I'm not sure. Has humankind survived extinction level events in the past,yes.

I'm actually torn between prepping and "do I really want to survive after the SHTF" The question that I have asked in a prepper forum is, "OK, so I have a years worth of food and toilet paper, what happens after that runs out??"

Preppers make a couple of assumptions. 1) that the world will be worth living in, 2) that civilization will have recovered by the time their stores run out, 3) they will be in a position to execute their plan.

I travel to make my living. Mr Murphy says I will be on the other side of the country, or globe, living in a hotel when the SHTF. A 'get home bag' just wouldn't be enough in my case, I would need a network of peers all over the continent to make it home, assuming that my (30ft above sea level) home is still habitable.

I'm not an optimist. I'm not a pessimist. I'm a realist. Reality is that when TEOTWAWKI occurs, all the preparation is probably out the window because the assumptions wont hold. We'll deal with life as it comes with what ever we have available at the time.

OK, maybe most of this belongs in Scotty's thread, but they tie together and it's what came to mind today while I was typing in this one.

I have the same attitude, but I also think people will adapt and some sort of society will exist. Look how much the world has changed in 25, 50 and 100 years. The average person didn't have telephones, TV or radio 100 years ago. Even 25 years ago large numbers of computers did not exist and now they are in nearly every home and in every workplace. People adapt and societies evolve because it is in their best interest to do so.
 
Starting to get personal are we? I never said anything about preparedness...I just tried to convey that I refuse to live in fear. Is all.
I think thats the 2 sides to the story here.
Some think people that are preppers live in fear, yes,some do.
But I think most that are prepared for a week or 2 or 3 are not living in fear.
I am not afraid to die.
I am not living in fear.
I just want to be sure,
If the power goes out for a week or 2
If the food store shelfs become empty
If there is a hurrican,blizzard,ect
Im good for awhile, atleast long enough to take some pictures and videos of it all.
And, I can have my morning coffee. :D
I think talking about the BIG ONE doesent even come into play.
If the BIG ONE does come, well, .................................................

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Obviously no one prepares for an extinction level event, what would be the point? People prepare for the break down of societal systems, the fall of civilizations. Did Rome survive the fall of the Empire? Rome is still there, the people are still there but how many hordes came through and ransacked, raped and murdered? Yes society survived but it was rocked to its core over and over again as the Vandals, Visigoths, Huns etc all swept through and took a piece.

The point is that this thing that we call civilization is more fragile than we would like to think. People will revert to survival instincts when things get tough enough. We like to think that our systems and institutions will always be there to support us and when they don't people go ape snot. Our biggest enemy is not the planet or the sun or the odd asteroid impact. The enemy is us and what we are all capable of when pushed beyond the limits that society imposes on us.

I get the feeling that most people think that improving technology makes us safer from the collapse of society, IMO it puts us at greater risk. We certainly are more comfortable and complacent for all of our technology but not safer. A corporate VP walked into my wifes store the other day and saw the rack of maps and was surprised that the company still sold maps in "this day and age". In his opinion GPS has made maps obsolete, they were no longer of use to the average American. We all better hope and pray that nothing bad happens in the near future or the term "lost generation" will take on a very literal meaning.

Anyway, I'm not preparing for any calamity. As I stated on the other thread, I don't want to live in a world without ice cream and The Big Bang theory. When the asteroid hits I will be one of those driving towards the expected impact zone, front row tickets for the greatest show on earth!
 
Have you see those cinnamon challenges on youtube that the social elite wanna be MENSA hopefuls are doing ?

Yup ,we are on the downslide as we speak ,to that there is no doubt !


Paul T
 
Starting to get personal are we? I never said anything about preparedness...I just tried to convey that I refuse to live in fear. Is all.

I apologise making you the target of my rant! I dont live in fear either!
 
Obviously no one prepares for an extinction level event, what would be the point? People prepare for the break down of societal systems, the fall of civilizations. Did Rome survive the fall of the Empire? Rome is still there, the people are still there but how many hordes came through and ransacked, raped and murdered? Yes society survived but it was rocked to its core over and over again as the Vandals, Visigoths, Huns etc all swept through and took a piece.

The point is that this thing that we call civilization is more fragile than we would like to think. People will revert to survival instincts when things get tough enough. We like to think that our systems and institutions will always be there to support us and when they don't people go ape snot. Our biggest enemy is not the planet or the sun or the odd asteroid impact. The enemy is us and what we are all capable of when pushed beyond the limits that society imposes on us.

I get the feeling that most people think that improving technology makes us safer from the collapse of society, IMO it puts us at greater risk. We certainly are more comfortable and complacent for all of our technology but not safer. A corporate VP walked into my wifes store the other day and saw the rack of maps and was surprised that the company still sold maps in "this day and age". In his opinion GPS has made maps obsolete, they were no longer of use to the average American. We all better hope and pray that nothing bad happens in the near future or the term "lost generation" will take on a very literal meaning.

Anyway, I'm not preparing for any calamity. As I stated on the other thread, I don't want to live in a world without ice cream and The Big Bang theory. When the asteroid hits I will be one of those driving towards the expected impact zone, front row tickets for the greatest show on earth!

I`ll bring the beer ! :cheers:


PS- should I bring sunglasses ?

Paul T
 
I guess I get really defensive about preppers because most of us are really mis-understood. But when I see folks who donot feel the need to prep even for two weeks, then see on the news some disaster and people whining about not getting enough help from the government, it just burns my butt why people wont take personal responsibility for their future! This is not always the case, as you see when tornadoes hit a small town, everybody bands together and help each other. I could only hope that it could be so altruistic for that to be the norm, but sadly it is not!

I may be naive in my survival instincts but I also think it's naive to think nothing bad will ever happen to me, or the goverment is going to save me because of my own stupidity.

With the world population approaching 7 billion, resources we take for granted are going to quickly disappear and when people get out of their comfort zone they can become really desperate, violent, and very stupid! That is what I primarily prepare for and I dont ever want to go through another period in my life when I have to beg for food!
 
Nothing wrong at all with being prepared for emergencies and disasters ,everybody should be !

I need to get a new generator though ,something I think is very important ,as well as other means to keep warm and cook.

Paul T
 
When the asteroid hits I will be one of those driving towards the expected impact zone, front row tickets for the greatest show on earth!

Exactly!
 
The black death was serious, but could in no way cause extinction. Many Europeans were naturally resistant, and no one in North or South America (a few million at the time) died from it. We have achieved massive redundancy by spreading out.


I totally agree about the risk of severe pandemic today, with mass transit. A few terrorists with some ebola tissue samples flying around the world scares the crap out of me. Good thing they are not very smart or interested in subtle plans like that. But a disease could not kill all humans. The last few will be isolated and cut off as others die, and there are always resistant populations. Again there is good redundancy to survive any disease or disaster short of an impact event.

A small percentage of Europeans had a genetic resistance to the Black Death. Those that had the full mutation didn't even get sick, others had a partial mutation (or it might have been a one gene or two genes kinda thing I don't recall exactly) got terribly sick but lived. Today one in four persons of European descent carry this mutation, outside of Europeans the percentage is tiny. If some new pandemic hits, even if the survival rate is one in a million, society crumbles, but there would still be quite a few people left to start over (assuming they could find one another).
 
There has been a suggestion that same immunity mutation (by now it's clearly an evolutionary advantage) my provide some protection against HIV/Aids. It all plays nicely into the Red Queen Theory.

A small percentage of Europeans had a genetic resistance to the Black Death. Those that had the full mutation didn't even get sick, others had a partial mutation (or it might have been a one gene or two genes kinda thing I don't recall exactly) got terribly sick but lived. Today one in four persons of European descent carry this mutation, outside of Europeans the percentage is tiny. If some new pandemic hits, even if the survival rate is one in a million, society crumbles, but there would still be quite a few people left to start over (assuming they could find one another).
 
There has been a suggestion that same immunity mutation (by now it's clearly an evolutionary advantage) my provide some protection against HIV/Aids. It all plays nicely into the Red Queen Theory.
So,again,as I said waaaaaaaaaaaay back when, that makes us (humans) MUTANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Researchers in Britain and China are using a new method to measure the rate of genetic mutation among humans — and it seems that all people in the world likely carry at least some new mutations
Read more: https://healthland.time.com/2009/08/27/all-humans-are-mutants-a-new-study-suggests/#ixzz1ovCmkZy3

And I still think we were left here by the MotherShip. :rolleyes:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VQ_DqDdD0U



I vote 'e'-all of the above.
-or-
point away from face
use only with adult supervision
Your mileage may vary
Contents sold by weight, not by volume
Contains small parts, keep away from children
Do not remove safety interlock
Test in an inconspicuous area first
Do not eat dessicant pack
You must be this tall to ride

The point being we have a lot of rules to save us from ourselves, but the hard truth is survival will be tenuous at best no matter how well you've prepared. There are ruthless citizens out there who know the law of the jungle much better than some of us 'civilized' persons and won't fail to capitalize on such matters. While I prefer not to envision the total breakdown of society as we know it, isolated instances keep cropping up to remiind us all we are one despot away from genocide, territorial disputes or resource 're-allocation'. Whether religious, economic or political in nature, oppression by force is the rule and can only be overcome by the same. It would have to be a horrendous event to eliminate the infrastructures, as fractured as they may become, to completely put us back to basic survival mode. If you look at society as a whole, we have always banded together (for good or bad) to create a sustainable future no matter how rugged or bleak it may seem on the surface.
For myself- I'm stocking up on Ketchsup (catsup?) because *everything* tastes better with ketchup-even cats!
 
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Turn on Faux Fascist Teevee for 15 minutes and whatever your original answer is, multiply it by 10.

An entire communications network devoted to pumping shrieking paranoia into the minds of the audience.

:y::y::y::y:
Hey, you have to have at least one network that's not bleeding heart liberal. One that actually reports news instead of what Lindsey Lohan's troubles are.

I just don't get why every lib wants to vilify Fox. Though, I applaud CNN cleaning house and getting back to reporting real news (without too much lib slant).
 
Wot's this, last of the v-8's?!
Touch those tanks and "K-pkieewww!"
A smart fella, A crafty felly like yeself might have a weapon under there.. and I'd have to pin his head to the panel..

All that Gass.... Pumping.. Kachunka Cachunka.. if anyone's gonna get it, it'll be a fella like you..

I'll drive that tanka..

that was the last we saw of teh man we called 'Max'

This thread reminded me of that movie / series. Must've watched it a thousand times..

I'm also reminded of the Asimov series 'Foundation'..

And I've often chuckled at the thought, that when our society does dissapear and whomeever comes after us will start to wonder as we did about past civilizations. They'll start digging up our past, adn see we payed & prayed to a great idol, with a white face, big feet, a yellow suit, and red hair.. And a great king named 'Burger'..
 
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