Shuttle external tank paint.

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Brent

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For those building a shuttle model. I found what seems so far a pretty good match for paint for the external tank. Krylon Fusion 2442 Satin Terra Cotta. I am just building a plastic model and it hasn't dried yet but looks pretty good so far.
 
For those building a shuttle model. I found what seems so far a pretty good match for paint for the external tank. Krylon Fusion 2442 Satin Terra Cotta. I am just building a plastic model and it hasn't dried yet but looks pretty good so far.

That`s good to know for an upcomming winter project ,although not a shuttle ,manned space travel none the less.

Thanks

Paul T
 
I did a lot of paint tests to replicate the ET foam color over in the Dr. Zooch Return to Flight Space Shuttle Thread #2... located here... https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...Return-To-Flight-Space-Shuttle-build-thread-2

I tested the "Zooch method" used to replicate the foam color, but since this method predates the switch of Krylon from lacquers to enamels, making the old materials very hard to come by, I also replicated it with various commonly available paints as well, and compared the results here...

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...pace-Shuttle-build-thread-2&p=13260#post13260

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...pace-Shuttle-build-thread-2&p=13266#post13266

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...pace-Shuttle-build-thread-2&p=13268#post13268

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...pace-Shuttle-build-thread-2&p=13271#post13271

Next I tore off a chunk of spray can foam from the bottom corner of my brother's garage, where it had squeezed out around the corner at the foundation from behind the tin after it was applied... It had probably six months of weathering and sun exposure on it... so it made a good simulant of the sunburned exposed ET foam... https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...pace-Shuttle-build-thread-2&p=13431#post13431

Using the foam, I did a few more paint evaluations... I found that a New Krylon color, Bauhaus Gold, is a pretty good approximation of the actual overall color of the ET foam... https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...pace-Shuttle-build-thread-2&p=16277#post16277.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...pace-Shuttle-build-thread-2&p=17623#post17623

It's simpler to apply than the three-layer paint process, and is a close approximation, but perhaps COULD do with a little darker color, since big things look slightly darker... perhaps a dusting of something brownish would help, though I haven't tried it myself on either my Zooch Lifting Body Shuttle kit

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?2092-Dr-Zooch-Lifting-Body-build-thread

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...h-Lifting-Body-build-thread&p=21086#post21086

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...h-Lifting-Body-build-thread&p=21089#post21089

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...h-Lifting-Body-build-thread&p=22515#post22515

Nor have I tried it on my Dr. Zooch SLS beta build that I did... https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?25443-Dr-Zooch-SLS-beta-build-thread

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...och-SLS-beta-build-thread&p=227051#post227051

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...och-SLS-beta-build-thread&p=227052#post227052

A "dry brushing" of a lighter color over the intertank and LOX line and cable trays really helps to bring out these details as well on models, though I haven't bothered with it on a flight model...

Hope this helps! OL JR :)
 
Didn't the first white painted booster cost them a hundred pounds of paint weight?
 
Insightful as always Mr.Luke ! When you going to retire and write a rocketry book and perhaps your memoirs ?

Thanks for the info :cheers:

Cheers

Paul T
 
Didn't the first white painted booster cost them a hundred pounds of paint weight?

Actually, the first two ET's were painted white to protect the foam from ultraviolet light from the sun - supposedly due to the "extended" periods the shuttle just sat on the pad before launch. When they decided it was unnecessary, the unpainted ET's were 600 lbs lighter! That's a lot of paint! :y:
 
It`s really not that hard to imagine how much a paint job adds to the weight of an object that large ,when you figure a gallon of paint may weigh from 8-10 pounds a gallon(even with evaporation of volatiles and such).I was watching a show where they were painting commercial airliners ,they mentioned how much the finished paint job added to the weight of the aircraft !

Paul T
 
It`s really not that hard to imagine how much a paint job adds to the weight of an object that large ,when you figure a gallon of paint may weigh from 8-10 pounds a gallon(even with evaporation of volatiles and such).I was watching a show where they were painting commercial airliners ,they mentioned how much the finished paint job added to the weight of the aircraft !

Paul T

Yep, and that's why American Airlines chose to have their aircraft mostly bare metal.

Greg
 
probably a dumb question...any chance the paint might have helped contain the foam on the tank?

It`s really not that hard to imagine how much a paint job adds to the weight of an object that large ,when you figure a gallon of paint may weigh from 8-10 pounds a gallon(even with evaporation of volatiles and such).I was watching a show where they were painting commercial airliners ,they mentioned how much the finished paint job added to the weight of the aircraft !

Paul T
 
probably a dumb question...any chance the paint might have helped contain the foam on the tank?

I`m the wrong person to ask ,but two years ago ,we had to move a DISA (big dust collector ,the size of two semi-trailers but taller) and in order to break it down into truckable loads (lowboys) we had to strip off the spray foam insulation around several joints,to expose the bolts and clips (it was sprayed for our cold climate ,as the exhaust air is re-filtered and re-used for heating).

Well ,let me tell you ,at 4 inches thick and fully cured for years ,that stuff was a BEAR to strip off ,as it does not want to be taken off !! So I guess using a paint layer would not really help keep it in place ,as this stuff forms a protective "cacoon" around the object.

BTW- the outer layer of foam exposed to light and UV had that same kind of orange /brown as the shuttle tank ,although I`m not sure it`s the same stuff ?

Man....that was a major PITA LOL

Paul T
 
I rather like bare metal aircraft ,just like the old days !

If I remember my air warfare history of Europe in WW II, all aircraft were required to be camoflaged until we had air supremacy, then we left them polished aluminum. Painting was taking too much time to get aircraft into combat and it was felt that it was not necessary, since the little friends could escort the bombers all the way and back, so they were left bare metal. FWIW to any of you, in Cheyenne Wyoming, at the airport, to the west of the terminal is an old United Airlines Hangar. This facility was used to balance propellers and to make the Cheyenne rear gun turret modification after the planes left the factory. I worked in that building for a while when I was working for the helicopter company and that is the reason I know about this. Also, did you notice that in the picture with the four B-17's, the first bomber is a B-17G, and the other three look to be B-17Fs?
 
The color of the foam was actually its natural color. It went on and cured a dull yellow, and as it aged it got more rust colored. So the color of any particular ET can be different from another.
 
If I remember my air warfare history of Europe in WW II, all aircraft were required to be camoflaged until we had air supremacy, then we left them polished aluminum. Painting was taking too much time to get aircraft into combat and it was felt that it was not necessary, since the little friends could escort the bombers all the way and back, so they were left bare metal. FWIW to any of you, in Cheyenne Wyoming, at the airport, to the west of the terminal is an old United Airlines Hangar. This facility was used to balance propellers and to make the Cheyenne rear gun turret modification after the planes left the factory. I worked in that building for a while when I was working for the helicopter company and that is the reason I know about this. Also, did you notice that in the picture with the four B-17's, the first bomber is a B-17G, and the other three look to be B-17Fs?

The Gs had the chin turret ? Saw my first 17 and 29 (FiFi) flying in formation this past June along with a Lancaster and some Mustangs for support.Man......that was a lot of shiny aluminum, well except for the Lanc.

Paul T

Paul T
 
I used to be a member of that illustrious group some 30+ years ago and worked on the P-51s. The late Tennessee Ernie Ford was one of the pilots of FiFi since he flew those in the war. When I was about 7 years old, the Confederate Air Force was located at an ex-training base/crop duster facility in Mercedes, Texas. This would be 1959, and a bunch of doctors and lawyers in the Rio Grande Valley were crying over the thought of those planes being melted down and turned into pot metals. So they started buying those planes up wherever they could find them and they created the Confederate Air Force. The planes back then were painted all white with a red, white, and blue stripe on the tips of the wings and on the tips of the propellers. Mike Dillon, who was a writer for Air Progress magazine bought himself a P-40 Warhawk and brought it to some of the fly-ins. It was bright red. This maybe the same Mike Dillon that has Dillon Presision Reloaders. I wrote him several times about this, but I never received a reply. I have to stop now, for I could write all night about the stories I know of or have heard of, or experienced.

You ever stop to think that the external fuel tank of the space shuttle is really just one of the world's largest thermos bottles and is very good at helping to keep liquids very, very cold?
 
Didn't the first white painted booster cost them a hundred pounds of paint weight?

Deleting the white paint on the tank saved them between 600 and 800 pounds IIRC... but it provided two functions on the early flights... the tanks were going to be outside for VERY long periods of time as the problems with ground integration and launching were worked out, and the paint helped prevent weathering damage to the foam... and the white paint also charred from the atmospheric friction and heating around the nosecap, the SRB nosecones, the orbiter nosecap, and the plume impingement on the aft end of the tank.

After the third flight, it simply wasn't necessary anymore, and was deleted...

Later! OL JR :)
 
No, the main reason was that they knew the first few launches would be out in the weather a LONG time... there would be inevitable problems that cropped up and they would take longer to fix since everything was new and untried (and the folks working on it didn't have experience with those particular problems to streamline the process). That would all add up to much longer pad times than was anticipated for "regular" shuttle flights once the program got going.

Sun particularly does pretty nasty things to unprotected spray-on foam... if you're ever at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station and have a chance to go to the rocket garden out there and go underneath the Delta IV core they have out there, you'll see what I mean. The Delta IV is covered with a similar type of spray-on foam insulation and it's VERY porous and brittle... the outer layer of bubbles tends to "pop" after a while, opening the foam up to more exposure... there are all kinds of handprints and fingerprints in the foam because it becomes very soft and "mushy" from exposure (this core has been there a long time-- it was a test article used for fitment and integration tests for Delta IV's pad and GSE when it was first coming online a decade or so ago). The foam eventually flakes away bit by bit until its gone... anything touching it merely accelerates the process, as more and more is directly exposed to the elements as the outer layers are blown away...

The other reason was that the white paint gave a very good visual indicator of the heat loads on various areas of the tank. If you look at ET jettison pics from those first couple missions, you'll notice the paint is burned in a distinct pattern on the surface of the tank-- the ogive "nose cone" of the ET itself gets significant aero-heating, as well as the areas of the ET adjacent to the nose caps of the SRB's and the orbiter itself, where the shock waves from the nosecaps impinge on the surface of the tank, and of course the exhaust plume recirculation at the base of the ET where hot exhaust gases from the rockets are drawn back up into the low pressure area under the ET in flight, roasting the base of the tank... All this was aeromodeled of course in the computer, but the paint burns and photography acted as a direct verification through experience...

Once that was accomplished, there was no real reason to go to the additional expense of the paint itself and paying folks to apply it, only to have to carry an additional 600 pounds of dead weight which detracted directly from payload capability to orbit. Deleting the paint therefore saved the money of the paint, the cost in man-hours to apply it, and saved that weight for additional cargo capability... win/win/win...

Later! OL JR :)

PS. As someone mentioned, the tanks had been shedding foam and causing problems from the very beginning-- and NASA knew about it... it was one of those 'normal deviations' that they ASSUMED could never bite them (until Columbia broke up and seven astronauts were killed... AGAIN)
 
Thanks Mjennings...I read the wiki article and Crippen noted that there were white blotches splattering the windshield during powered ascent....so much for the paint holding this stuff in!....the paint itself was being ripped off.

Nope there was Tile damage that Crippin and Young saw on STS-1 Nose and RCS/OMS pods
see mission anomalies section at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-1
 
thanks Luke!

No, the main reason was that they knew the first few launches would be out in the weather a LONG time... there would be inevitable problems that cropped up and they would take longer to fix since everything was new and untried (and the folks working on it didn't have experience with those particular problems to streamline the process). That would all add up to much longer pad times than was anticipated for "regular" shuttle flights once the program got going.

Sun particularly does pretty nasty things to unprotected spray-on foam... if you're ever at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station and have a chance to go to the rocket garden out there and go underneath the Delta IV core they have out there, you'll see what I mean. The Delta IV is covered with a similar type of spray-on foam insulation and it's VERY porous and brittle... the outer layer of bubbles tends to "pop" after a while, opening the foam up to more exposure... there are all kinds of handprints and fingerprints in the foam because it becomes very soft and "mushy" from exposure (this core has been there a long time-- it was a test article used for fitment and integration tests for Delta IV's pad and GSE when it was first coming online a decade or so ago). The foam eventually flakes away bit by bit until its gone... anything touching it merely accelerates the process, as more and more is directly exposed to the elements as the outer layers are blown away...

The other reason was that the white paint gave a very good visual indicator of the heat loads on various areas of the tank. If you look at ET jettison pics from those first couple missions, you'll notice the paint is burned in a distinct pattern on the surface of the tank-- the ogive "nose cone" of the ET itself gets significant aero-heating, as well as the areas of the ET adjacent to the nose caps of the SRB's and the orbiter itself, where the shock waves from the nosecaps impinge on the surface of the tank, and of course the exhaust plume recirculation at the base of the ET where hot exhaust gases from the rockets are drawn back up into the low pressure area under the ET in flight, roasting the base of the tank... All this was aeromodeled of course in the computer, but the paint burns and photography acted as a direct verification through experience...

Once that was accomplished, there was no real reason to go to the additional expense of the paint itself and paying folks to apply it, only to have to carry an additional 600 pounds of dead weight which detracted directly from payload capability to orbit. Deleting the paint therefore saved the money of the paint, the cost in man-hours to apply it, and saved that weight for additional cargo capability... win/win/win...

Later! OL JR :)

PS. As someone mentioned, the tanks had been shedding foam and causing problems from the very beginning-- and NASA knew about it... it was one of those 'normal deviations' that they ASSUMED could never bite them (until Columbia broke up and seven astronauts were killed... AGAIN)
 
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