Recovery Wadding

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Mark_L

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I need help understanding how to pack recovery wadding. After my first couple launches, the parachute was always a little burnt, until there was a hole in it from all the heat. After doing some research, I figured out that recovery wadding is supposed to completely block the air, and an easy way to check is by blowing into the tube and seeing if any air come out the other side. I tried that, and there was always air getting passed. I tried so many times, but every time, the air gets passed. I crumbled the wadding into loose balls, slightly larger than the diameter of the tube and I slide them in. I also added an extra piece of wadding. The directions said to add 2-3 but I added 4 to be sure. Does anyone know any problems/solutions to this? thank you for your time.
-Mark
 
It's been almost 20 years since I flew LPR with wadding, but I still have issues with chutes being burned, melted, or scorched by ejection gases. I just bought my second bale of dog barf and use it generously. That is the only thing that seems to help. The chute protectors, deployment bags, etc. all work somewhat, but the dog barf is what makes it all work with minimal burns on the chutes.
 
With wadding you want it to block all burning particles from the ejection, so it has to fill the tube. With no motor in place you can look through the tube to see if light shows through — if so, it's not filled well.

How you wad it up makes a difference. Too many crinkles and creases leave gaps at the edges. A piece a bit bigger than the tube, laid flat over the tube end and gently poked in with a finger, can help with getting a good "seal". Then follow that with enough loose wads for protection.

Size of the wads matters, too. For small tubes, tear the sheets into smaller pieces. The right size should, when loosely crumpled, be slightly bigger than the tube. This way it fills the tube but still slides in (and out!) easily. Getting it right is pretty much a matter of experience.

As others have said, an extra sheet wrapped around the chute can provide an extra line of defense, just in case.

I think that an often overlooked factor is the folding of the chute. If everything can get blown out easily, hot gasses shouldn't be an issue: the body tube is full of cool air, and that gets pushed out first. If the cool air takes the chute with it, there's no risk from hot gases. If the chute gets stuck in the tube, though, it will be exposed to all the hot gases blowing past it.

Even with all of that, chute damage is bound to happen sometimes. LPR plastic chutes still work with minor damage and are very easy to replace if heavily damaged. They can be made from ordinary kitchen garbage bags; I use white bags and decorate them with markers. If you don't feel like making your own, they're not very expensive to buy.

Finally, I'll add that there are ways to get away from wadding. I've started using baffles, reusable teflon "pom-poms", and/or chute protectors (cloth sheets attached to the shock cord and wrapped around the chute) in most of my rockets. Not dealing with wadding really speeds up getting the rocket ready, and I like not leaving bits of wadding in the launch field.
 
The rule of thumb is wadding should be at least three diameters deep. It should act almost as a piston, pushing the nose cone off and the parachute out.

I recommend you go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy a bale of cellulose insulation. It's flame resistant and is certified by both NAR and Tripoli for use as wadding. It's also biodegradable and it doesn't pose a hazard to grazing livestock. And, a bale will last a long time and save you a fortune over Estes wadding.
 
I buy the Estes Pro Series wadding even for low power. Example the Alpha 3 ill break off 2 or 3 sheets, crumble them. Hold the shock cord, and then use a dowel rod to stuff them in to the top of the motor ttube. Now the Cherokee-E to High-Flier XL will use about one whole length they give you(I think 8 sheet sections?) to one and a half or 2 of those pre-cut lengths, crumble up individually or as the whole, same thing for putting it in make sure your shock cord isn't in the ejection blast area. I packed my High-Flier XL and looked in the motor tube. The shock cord was under the wadding, the video below kind of shoes that..

Now like my Big Daddy I'll put some wadding in the motor tube, and dump dog barf(I use non flammable "spray-in" house insulation/Cellulose as most clubs prefer that)down the top of the body tube(3" rockets take about one 16oz cup, 4" will take about 2 to 3. Use your better judgment it doesn't hurt to add extra). About a cup for that, and another option is parachute protectors.

You can also look into ejection baffles and chute stops. Baffle will illuminate the best for wadding or use very little for certain rockets. And the parachute protectors can be used, but YOU must use dog barf or wadding too it will burn thru that nonex its fire retardant not fire proof. I made a little video a while back its not great but may help you. Now that I'm getting better at videos I'll keep some more.

 

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It's been almost 20 years since I flew LPR with wadding, but I still have issues with chutes being burned, melted, or scorched by ejection gases. I just bought my second bale of dog barf and use it generously. That is the only thing that seems to help. The chute protectors, deployment bags, etc. all work somewhat, but the dog barf is what makes it all work with minimal burns on the chutes.

Same here. I've landed on using a combination of dog barf and recovery wadding on my LPR rockets. I wad the recovery wadding around a clump of dog barf and stuff that into the tube. The dog barf gives it some "bulk", and the recovery wadding keeps it all together, almost like a piston. In addition, I might wrap the chute in a piece of recovery wadding.

But yeah, those plastic chutes still melt sometimes.
 
But yeah, those plastic chutes still melt sometimes.
If the parachute isn't ejected "on time," the recovery wadding won't help much. Despite stopping burning bits from hitting the parachute, the wadding can't fully insulate the parachute from the heat. So if the parachute doesn't leave the main body tube when it should (or at all), a (partially) melted parachute can be expected even with no direct contact with the ejection charge.
 
It's been almost 20 years since I flew LPR with wadding, but I still have issues with chutes being burned, melted, or scorched by ejection gases. I just bought my second bale of dog barf and use it generously. That is the only thing that seems to help. The chute protectors, deployment bags, etc. all work somewhat, but the dog barf is what makes it all work with minimal burns on the chutes.
Yup. Ignore the wading and just use dog barf.
 
Yup. Ignore the wading and just use dog barf.
I will disagree about ignoring the wadding, a single sheet formed into a cup filled with dog barf makes a very effective method of packing the chute, I have been using the same two or three packs of wadding for several years now since I also pick up the loose sheets laying around the field and reuse them (the quest stuff is blue and easy to spot). Since using the cup and dog barf method my LPR deployments have been more reliable and I have had fewer chutes damaged, and as little wadding as I go through using my method its relatively inexpensive too.
 
If the parachute isn't ejected "on time," the recovery wadding won't help much. Despite stopping burning bits from hitting the parachute, the wadding can't fully insulate the parachute from the heat. So if the parachute doesn't leave the main body tube when it should (or at all), a (partially) melted parachute can be expected even with no direct contact with the ejection charge.
Thats why I starting using and making chute protectors.
 
I will disagree about ignoring the wadding, a single sheet formed into a cup filled with dog barf makes a very effective method of packing the chute, I have been using the same two or three packs of wadding for several years now since I also pick up the loose sheets laying around the field and reuse them (the quest stuff is blue and easy to spot). Since using the cup and dog barf method my LPR deployments have been more reliable and I have had fewer chutes damaged, and as little wadding as I go through using my method its relatively inexpensive too.
I do the same with the wadding, it does make a nice stop or a cup. But some clubs don't like the use of wadding so I use just a little in the motor tube, then dog barf, then chute protector. Yeah you could use the motor too, but if you have to take the motor out or forget something that mess it all over.
 
I've always used normal recovery wadding, but I hate buying the stuff. I've tried dog barf but I've had bad luck with it, it seems to form a tight plug in the body tube that resists ejection. My best luck recently has been with reusable crepe paper "pom poms". They are cheap and can be reused. I had some very old crepe paper so I made one and it lasted about 6 or 8 launches. I went to Hobby Lobby and bought a new roll to use. It looks like the old stuff but is not nearly as strong so it tends to shred itself in a couple of launches. Most of my launches these days are BT-55 and BT-60 size rockets.

I have thought about trying to make paper towel chute protectors. I haven't put enough thought into coming up with the shape that I want to try and I would have to buy the material to make them fireproof, plus I think actually making them would be labor intensive. I'm going to keep trying to perfect my use of dog barf.
 
I've always used normal recovery wadding, but I hate buying the stuff. I've tried dog barf but I've had bad luck with it, it seems to form a tight plug in the body tube that resists ejection. My best luck recently has been with reusable crepe paper "pom poms". They are cheap and can be reused. I had some very old crepe paper so I made one and it lasted about 6 or 8 launches. I went to Hobby Lobby and bought a new roll to use. It looks like the old stuff but is not nearly as strong so it tends to shred itself in a couple of launches. Most of my launches these days are BT-55 and BT-60 size rockets.

I have thought about trying to make paper towel chute protectors. I haven't put enough thought into coming up with the shape that I want to try and I would have to buy the material to make them fireproof, plus I think actually making them would be labor intensive. I'm going to keep trying to perfect my use of dog barf.
The key to dog barf it to break it up and the right amount. If you put in a plug or too much, it may act as a plug.
 
Using flame proof wadding of any kind is not a good idea, because you are throwing it in the environment and animals could eat it.
Just use a piston, or nomex.
 
I've always used normal recovery wadding, but I hate buying the stuff. .
unless they have changed things, if you buy the bulk 24 packs of 18 mm motors (A, B, C, and mixed Flight Pack) they come with wadding and an extra 6 igniters.
 
unless they have changed things, if you buy the bulk 24 packs of 18 mm motors (A, B, C, and mixed Flight Pack) they come with wadding and an extra 6 igniters.
I understand and I've bought those in the past. I don't buy the bulk packs these days because they don't seem to save enough money to be worthwhile. I buy as many motors as I can from Hobby Lobby and they have the mixed flight pack. I don't buy those because there are some motors in there that I don't use.

Are there small motor packs that come with wadding? Maybe in starter sets? I've seen people at launches with small folded up packs of wadding that look like they would come out of a motor pack.

I have baffles in my mid-power rockets but I don't want to go to the trouble to build such a thing in LPR.
 
Are there small motor packs that come with wadding? Maybe in starter sets? I've seen people at launches with small folded up packs of wadding that look like they would come out of a motor pack.

I have baffles in my mid-power rockets but I don't want to go to the trouble to build such a thing in LPR.

I buy motors in the usual "3 or 4 packs" and they don't come with wadding.

As for using baffles in LPR rockets, why do you hesitate to do so?
 
As for using baffles in LPR rockets, why do you hesitate to do so?
I'm usually scratchbuilding my designs which means cutting out the centering rings and so forth myself. I also make my own engine blocks and couplers when needed. I don't want to have to cut out more bulkheads and so forth to make baffles. I may try making some the next time I gear up to make a batch of rockets.
 

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