Quest Plastic Bricks

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JAL3

Well-Known Member
Since my other MMX plans for the day did not work out, I pulled out a couple of the Quest Ready to Fly rockets I had, paying attention to the ones that had never flown. The Little Joe II was up first. There's not much to say about this one except that its an itty bitty plastic version of the Little Joe II.

The rocket came with its own "Silo" launcher, one of the hallmarks of the Quest MMX series. I long ago abandoned it and its finicky operation and use modified versions of my normal range gear instead.

Besides that, it came with a few motors and the rocket itself.

There is no construction. The rocket is assembled already and lacks only the insertion of the motor.

The MMX motor is inserted by twisting out a bezel ring at the aft end of the rocket. The motor is then slid in and the bezel replaced. The next step would normally then call for inserting the igniter into to silo launcher and setting the rocket on top of it but, as mentioned before, I bailed on the silo long ago. Instead, I inserted a regular Quest igniter and held it in place with a sharpened twig as a plug. The rocket was then set on the rod and hooked to the clips.

jj94

Well-Known Member
I haven't flown MMX in a really long while (haven't flown anything in a while, actually) but the LJ II was the one I first got. I flew it a couple of times, and I think it flew alright. It was a while ago. Tubefins are really good with MMX.

JAL3

Well-Known Member
The launch button was pushed repeatedly and the igniter failed to ignite. I took the rocket down, checked things out, replaced it on the pad and the same thing happened again. Finally, it was noticed that the continuity tone was coming from arming the wrong pad; I had failed to explain the the young lady at the controls which set of cables I was using. In a fit of youthful exuberance, she pushed the button and the rocket went up. I only saw it for a moment or so around apogee, admittedly a rather low occurring event. The NC failed to eject and deploy the streamer but the rocket fluttered down fine anyway.

Double post.

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JAL3

Well-Known Member
I decided to try one more of the the Quest plastics and thought that I had not flown the shuttle before either. It was loaded in the same way as the LJII and taken to the pad. IT proved a bit more problematical to get the igniter to stay in place but, eventually, it did.

JAL3

Well-Known Member
I haven't flown MMX in a really long while (haven't flown anything in a while, actually) but the LJ II was the one I first got. I flew it a couple of times, and I think it flew alright. It was a while ago. Tubefins are really good with MMX.
I finally flew my first "real" MMX the same day. It was a Fliskits Dead Ringer. It had issues to but they all came from me, not the rocket. I'm not giving up on them. They just are not too high on my priority list.

JAL3

Well-Known Member
When the launch button was pushed, it did not so much fly into the air as it was blown up there. It was ungraceful and ungainly. The surprising thing is that I got it on film at all.

powderburner

Well-Known Member
Is it only me, or does it seem weird to anyone else that the igniter clips are bigger than the LPBs?

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Is it only me, or does it seem weird to anyone else that the igniter clips are bigger than the LPBs?
Not anymore - welcome to the world of micro rocketry! :roll:

John, have you tried holding the igniter in with a toothpick? I have used this method since early on in my BARdom, and it works great. After you insert the igniter, insert the end of a round toothpick just into the nozzle just far enough to -barely- stay in place (IOW, don't cram it in!!!). You will probably need to hold it in place as you slide the rocket down onto the launch rod to keep it from falling out again; if you do need to do that, then you have inserted it properly. Then prop the toothpick against the blast deflector so that it acts as a stand-off for the rocket while continuing to keep the igniter from falling out of the nozzle. Carefully connect the igniter clips to the leads.

If you can, use the Micromaxx Q2 igniters; they are just like the now OOP glass bead Quest Q2 igniters, only without pyrogen. Their leads are stiff wire, and at least theoretically, you can stand the rocket on the igniter leads once the bridge wire has been inserted in the nozzle, and can thus keep the igniter inserted when the rocket is on the pad. If you have the original QMX plug-in igniters, just separate the two halves of the plastic plug housing with your fingernail or the blade of a small knife (the two halves are just pressed together, not glued) and carefully remove the solar-like igniter (two leads held apart by a strip of paper) and use it with the toothpick method.

MarkII

JAL3

Well-Known Member
Not anymore - welcome to the world of micro rocketry! :roll:

John, have you tried holding the igniter in with a toothpick? I have used this method since early on in my BARdom, and it works great. After you insert the igniter, insert the end of a round toothpick just into the nozzle just far enough to -barely- stay in place (IOW, don't cram it in!!!). You will probably need to hold it in place as you slide the rocket down onto the launch rod to keep it from falling out again; if you do need to do that, then you have inserted it properly. Then prop the toothpick against the blast deflector so that it acts as a stand-off for the rocket while continuing to keep the igniter from falling out of the nozzle. Carefully connect the igniter clips to the leads.

If you can, use the Micromaxx Q2 igniters; they are just like the now OOP glass bead Quest Q2 igniters, only without pyrogen. Their leads are stiff wire, and at least theoretically, you can stand the rocket on the igniter leads once the bridge wire has been inserted in the nozzle, and can thus keep the igniter inserted when the rocket is on the pad. If you have the original QMX plug-in igniters, just separate the two halves of the plastic plug housing with your fingernail or the blade of a small knife (the two halves are just pressed together, not glued) and carefully remove the solar-like igniter (two leads held apart by a strip of paper) and use it with the toothpick method.

MarkII
In my past musings on things Micromaxx, I did indeed stumble upon the toothpick scheme you mentioned and even purchased a box just for that purpose. What I have since done with them, though, is anybody's guess.

I am familiar with thew newer style Quest igniters you spoke of. I bought several packs of them when Fliskits first announced them. I even remembbered to grab them on the way out Saturday. Alas, I got there and had the wrong type. I had grabbed the regular ones.:confused2:

markschnell

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I have gotten as much as three launches off one igniter with the MicroMaxx Q2's. They're tough little suckers. Has anyone else had that happen or even tried them more than once? Last time I launched I ended up with a bunch of spare ignitors. How cool is that?

MarkII

Well-Known Member
Oh, man! Talk about being en mer sans un aviron! (Or ¿en mar sin un remo? Something like that...) Micromeister says that he successfully uses regular Quest Q2 (OOP) and Estes igniters in Micromaxx motors all the time, so I guess it can be done. Way, way back in the mists of time ago (2005) I once tried to use Estes igniters in Micromaxx motors, with mixed success (1 for 3). I haven't tried it since that one time.

MarkII

MarkII

Well-Known Member
I have gotten as much as three launches off one igniter with the MicroMaxx Q2's. They're tough little suckers. Has anyone else had that happen or even tried them more than once? Last time I launched I ended up with a bunch of spare ignitors. How cool is that?
Once or twice with the Quest igniters. Many times when firing 13mm motors with Estes igniters using the 6 volt Estes Electron Beam controller. One time I fired 4 motors consecutively with the same Estes igniter. Now that I am using a 12 volt system for everything, I hardly ever see that anymore.

MarkII

MarkII

Well-Known Member
When the launch button was pushed, it did not so much fly into the air as it was blown up there. It was ungraceful and ungainly. The surprising thing is that I got it on film at all.
Yup. The Shuttle has so much nose weight (and is so draggy) that all the Micromaxx-II motor can do is lob it up there. It "flies," sort of.

Among all of the original Quest RTF's, the Shuttle is probably the worst offender in that regard, and it is the one that is most deserving of the nickname "Little Plastic Brick." Try the SR-71; you'll be pleasantly surprised by that one.

MarkII

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
John:
I've found over time it's making Micro Maxx flying as simple and easy as possible that makes all the difference.

IF you use the toothpick method, (which I do not recommend) be very sure to use only enough pressure inserting the toothpick to hold the igniter in place, too much or heavy pressure caused MMX motor Catos!

There is a way to completely remove the hassle of toothpicks or wadding ball/taping igniters in micro motors. Personally; I prefer to pre-prep a mess of micro motors the night before a launch using the wadding ball/tape method. With this scheme all I have to do is insert the motor and go to the pad, couldn't be quicker or easier.

But for those who don't won't to take the time to Prepare motors in advance. Here is a way to Vastly Help ease igniter connection headaches at the pad. This is by the way I've set up my Micro launchers micro clips. This little trick has to be one of the best things I've come up with flying micro motors.
This Method is what i've come to call "Coiled Clips" Consisting of a twisted pair of 24ga stranded copper "hookup" wires with a pair of soldered smooth jaw 1" micro clips. Standard copper single conductor stranded "Hookup wire" from Radioshack. Twisted pair of 24ga wires are then Coiled providing a spring support for the model from the igniter. These Coil clips work with all types of igniters: Bare nichrome, Original plugs, Inner igniter from the original plugs, Q2's, Q2g2's, Solar igniter, even electric matches. Coil Clips can be retro fitted into the old silo type launchers eliminating the launch residue connection problems requiring cleaning after 2 or 3 flights, or connected to or into whatever launcher or launch system your using.
If your Soldering your own Microclips anyway, you can make up a set of Coiled Clips which will Greatly increase your enjoyment of micro flying.

If your usings the old style plugs I strongly suggest taking them apart using only the inside igniter part of the plug. A couple pair of pliers will pull them apart quickly and easily. Then they are used just like any other igniter.

I find it easier to circle file the supplied plug igniters, replacing them with home made 30ga bare nichrome igniters. I bend and cut a hundred or so while watching an evenings TV. A spool of 30ga corrected(.0100"dia) McMaster-Carr # 8880K82 will set you back $18.65 giving you 403 feet or about 4800 igniters.......Cheap at twice the price LOL!!!! and LOADS cheaper then any other igniter alternative other then whatever comes with the motors Yeap! Have to agree with everything others have said about the heft of the LPB's. The Finished mass of most of the original Quest LPB's is why Bill Stine was so dissapointed with what the oriental manufacturer did to his original designs. They were designed at about 2/3rd of the mass delivered. To be fair some of the 3f&Nc LPB's fly pretty darn well, I use them alot in motor testing and other demo modes. but the Shuttle is well; just Way to heavy for anything other then lobbing. It's also a very good idea to add a piece of masking tape to the body/fin unit twist lock on most of the 3f&NC LPB's as they tend to fly apart at ejection if you don't Little Joe-II is OK, the SR-71 is really funny, if you fold the streamer it can deploy, if you roll any of these streamer around the piston they NEVER deploy. I've stuck the SR-71 in the ground just about every time I fly the darn thing LOL!!! On just about any of the piston held streamer models if you'll fold the streamer in half, then half again and a third time. halving until the streamer makes a single bend around the piston they do indeed deploy and recover I'm kinda partical to the LPB Tomahawk Cruise missile and altered Saturn-V. even the LPB UFO is fun to fly. Long and short is most of the LPB's are Heavy, low flying, quick launch things..... but don't give up! Many of the lighter micro fly extreamly well, particularly kits made with T3 (.375") and smaller T2+ body sizes. Just about any Micro with a finished Empty mass of 10grams or under will be a very good flying models. Hope this helps and Please put them a little higher on your priority list. Like most things the more we learn the more we enjoy....... keep flying Micros PS: Most; if not all of the alterations and changeover modifications to the Old Silo Launchers, and Quests controllers and other dodads are in the files section of the MicroMaxRockets group along with hundreds of micro model plans for scratch building, resources and vendors for really enjoying this niche of the Hobby. PSS: I've just been informed that the bottom portion of Pic #4 showing the bare nichrome Q2 igniters was taken by Jim Flis. sorry I thought it was a promo pic for Quest...., I'll have it changed before I post this composite photo again. Attachments • 116.9 KB Views: 44 Last edited: JAL3 Well-Known Member John: I've found over time it's making Micro Maxx flying as simple and easy as possible that makes all the difference. IF you use the toothpick method, (which I do not recommend) be very sure to use only enough pressure inserting the toothpick to hold the igniter in place, too much or heavy pressure caused MMX motor Catos! There is a way to completely remove the hassle of toothpicks or wadding ball/taping igniters in micro motors. Personally; I prefer to pre-prep a mess of micro motors the night before a launch using the wadding ball/tape method. With this scheme all I have to do is insert the motor and go to the pad, couldn't be quicker or easier. But for those how don't won't to take the time to Prepare motors in advance. Here is a way to Vastly Help ease igniter connection at the pad. This is by the way I've set up my Micro launchers micro clips. This little trick has to be one of the best things I've come up with flying micro motors. This Method is what i've come to call "Coiled Clips" Consisting of a twisted pair of 24ga stranded copper "hookup" wires with a pair of soldered smooth jaw 1" micro clips. Standard copper single conductor stranded "Hookup wire" from Radioshack. Twisted pair of 24ga wires are then Coiled providing a spring support for the model from the igniter. These Coil clips work with all types of igniters: Bare nichrome, Original plugs, Inner igniter from the original plugs, Q2's, Q2g2's, Solar igniter, even electric matches. Coil Clips can be retro fitted into the old silo type launchers eliminating the launch residue connection problems requiring cleaning after 2 or 3 flights, or connected to or into whatever launcher or launch system your using. If your Soldering your own Microclips anyway, you can make up a set of Coiled Clips which will Greatly increase your enjoyment of micro flying. If your usings the old style plugs I strongly suggest taking them apart using only the inside igniter part of the plug. A couple pair of pliers will pull them apart quickly and easily. Then they are used just like any other igniter. I find it easier to circle file the supplied plug igniters, replacing them with home made 30ga bare nichrome igniters. I bend and cut a hundred or so while watching an evenings TV. A spool of 30ga (.100"dia) McMaster-Carr # 8880K82 will set you back$18.65 giving you 403 feet or about 4800 igniters.......Cheap at twice the price LOL!!!! and LOADS cheaper then any other igniter alternative other then whatever comes with the motors

Yeap! Have to agree with everything others have said about the heft of the LPB's. The Finished mass of most of the original Quest LPB's is why Bill Stine was so dissapointed with what the oriental manufacturer did to his original designs. They were designed at about 2/3rd of the mass delivered. To be fair some of the 3f&Nc LPB's fly pretty darn well, I use them alot in motor testing and other demo modes. but the Shuttle is well; just Way to heavy for anything other then lobbing. It's also a very good idea to add a piece of masking tape to the body/fin unit twist lock on most of the 3f&NC LPB's as they tend to fly apart at ejection if you don't
Little Joe-II is OK, the SR-71 is really funny, if you fold the streamer it can deploy, if you roll any of these streamer around the piston they NEVER deploy. I've stuck the SR-71 in the ground just about every time I fly the darn thing LOL!!!
On just about any of the piston held streamer models if you'll fold the streamer in half, then half again and a third time. halving until the streamer makes a single bend around the piston they do indeed deploy and recover I'm kinda partical to the LPB Tomahawk Cruise missile and altered Saturn-V.
even the LPB UFO is fun to fly.

Long and short is most of the LPB's are Heavy, low flying, quick launch things..... but don't give up! Many of the lighter micro fly extreamly well, particularly kits made with T3 (.375") and smaller T2+ body sizes. Just about any Micro with a finished Empty mass of 10grams or under will be a very good flying models.
Hope this helps and Please put them a little higher on your priority list. Like most things the more we learn the more we enjoy....... keep flying Micros

PS: Most; if not all of the alterations and changeover modifications to the Old Silo Launchers, and Quests controllers and other dodads are in the files section of the MicroMaxRockets group along with hundreds of micro model plans for scratch building, resources and vendors for really enjoying this niche of the Hobby.
Thanks for all the info.

Most of what you say rings a bell from the previous incarnation of TRF but had slipped out of my mind. I appreciate the reminder.

I have no intention of giving up on these things. They are not at the top of my list but neither would I consider stepping out of the MMX world altogether. I already have a hare-brained scheme brewing for the GSE!:jaw:

powderburner

Well-Known Member
I bend and cut a hundred or so while watching an evenings TV. A spool of 30ga ( .100"dia) McMaster-Carr # 8880K82 will set you back \$18.65....
Now there's an ignitor for manly men if I ever saw one. And after you finish making the ignitor, I'd like to see the micromaxx motor that it would fit into-

(Sorry micromeister, couldn't resist, I know you really meant 0.0100 inch diam)

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
Now there's an ignitor for manly men if I ever saw one. And after you finish making the ignitor, I'd like to see the micromaxx motor that it would fit into-

(Sorry micromeister, couldn't resist, I know you really meant 0.0100 inch diam)
LOL! Oh man! Sorry, that would be a little snug :roll:

MarkII

Well-Known Member
...
IF you use the toothpick method, (which I do not recommend) be very sure to use only enough pressure inserting the toothpick to hold the igniter in place, too much or heavy pressure caused MMX motor Catos!
Exactly - the toothpick is NOT meant to be used like an igniter plug. Instead, the whole idea is to use it as an igniter support or prop. The only time that it might cause a cato (I say might, because I have never seen this happen) is if it is crammed into the nozzle so firmly that the tip breaks off and becomes firmly lodged in the nozzle throat. As I said, I have never actually seen this happen, but as a precaution, I always make sure to emphasize that the tip of the toothpick is to be gently and just barely inserted into the nozzle, and is never to be jammed in. I keep meaning to construct a version of Micromeister's very neat and ingenious igniter holder. If you ever see pictures of it, you will immediately conclude that it is a very clever solution, possibly the best one out there. But the toothpick method works so well for me that I never seem to get around to it.

MarkII

MarkII

Well-Known Member
...
PS: Most; if not all of the alterations and changeover modifications to the Old Silo Launchers, and Quests controllers and other dodads are in the files section of the MicroMaxRockets group along with hundreds of micro model plans for scratch building, resources and vendors for really enjoying this niche of the Hobby.
That's actually an understatement... :roll:

MarkII

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Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
Exactly - the toothpick is NOT meant to be used like an igniter plug. Instead, the whole idea is to use it as an igniter support or prop. The only time that it might cause a cato (I say might, because I have never seen this happen) is if it is crammed into the nozzle so firmly that the tip breaks off and becomes firmly lodged in the nozzle throat. As I said, I have never actually seen this happen, but as a precaution, I always make sure to emphasize that the tip of the toothpick is to be gently and just barely inserted into the nozzle, and is never to be jammed in. I keep meaning to construct a version of Micromeister's very neat and ingenious igniter holder. If you ever see pictures of it, you will immediately conclude that it is a very clever solution, possibly the best one out there. But the toothpick method works so well for me that I never seem to get around to it.

MarkII
For the Record: It doesn't take that much pressure mark; Heres a photo I believe was taken by Shreadvector a year or so ago over on the left coast of a Catoed MMX-II motor that was toothpicked.
Personally i've witnessed at least 2 confirmed "toothpick" Micro motor catoed launches by others and a number of other "suspect" incidence. while the toothpicks are set with way to much pressure, they don't seem to be breaking off anything in the process. I guess this is why I firmly do not recommend the method because when a micro motor catos this way there is generally not much left of the model

For some time now i've been trying to Heatcycle both MMX-I and MMX-II motors into producing a cato. To date i've been unsuccessful, in repeated attempts. I currently have a six pack of each "cooking" in my van that have been in there now for almost two years, maxing out over the summer at a little over 140+ degrees F. They are scheduled for Cato attempts this fall or winter when the air temp give me much more then the -75°f difference that should have product a cato by now but hasn't, I'm now looking at Age in extreme temps???, well see.
The only way i've personally be able to cause a cato in a Micro MMX-II motors is with a toothpick in the nozzle, jammed in there tight but not so tight as to break or even bend the toothpick. Conversely, I've jammed flameproof wadding in the same motors from the same pack, hard enough to crumble some of the clay nozzle but the motor still functioned as intended. MMX-I motors have servived and operated as intended no matter what igniter holding method has been tried.

I type all this only to show testing is and has been ongoing looking for ways to easily and safely hold and/or support our micro models on and with the various igniters we have at our disposal. If folks are going to continue to promote and show the toothpick support method, it must be done with the extreme care you mentioned in your second post. We all fall into the habbit of "knowing" everyone else has the same level of understanding as ourselves. I'm reminded of this constantly by my better 2/3rds. As most of the casual sport flyers have very limited exposure to Micros they tend to do the same things with them we do with other size models. In this case it occasionally end with a Bang and a destroyed model.

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Well-Known Member
My memory is fuzzy, but the phot is much to clear to have been one of mine.

I do remember reporting the MicroMaxx I -1 motors overpressurizing from too much toothpick. In the case of the MMXI-1, they blow through and do not shatter the very, very strong plastic casing.

shrox

Well-Known Member
Today I saw MicroMaxx in action for the very first time. We tested a paper tube prototype that landed in the back of Bill's jeep, the second was a pre-made one. I lost sight of it, but I could hear the streamer rustling as it came down. It landed about 10 feet from the jeep. You could almost call them "truck bed" fliers as well as backyard fliers.

sandman

Well-Known Member
Today I saw MicroMaxx in action for the very first time. We tested a paper tube prototype that landed in the back of Bill's jeep, the second was a pre-made one. I lost sight of it, but I could hear the streamer rustling as it came down. It landed about 10 feet from the jeep. You could almost call them "truck bed" fliers as well as backyard fliers.
Actually the last time I flew MMX I flew them from the top of the cover on my pickup truck box.

It was great! No bending over!

The launcher and igniters were right at eye level.

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gpoehlein

Well-Known Member
Today I saw MicroMaxx in action for the very first time. We tested a paper tube prototype that landed in the back of Bill's jeep, the second was a pre-made one. I lost sight of it, but I could hear the streamer rustling as it came down. It landed about 10 feet from the jeep. You could almost call them "truck bed" fliers as well as backyard fliers.
Now this could be scary: Shrox designing mmx models! Of course that will probably be a "good" scary!!! Have fun, Shrox!

Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
My memory is fuzzy, but the phot is much to clear to have been one of mine.

I do remember reporting the MicroMaxx I -1 motors overpressurizing from too much toothpick. In the case of the MMXI-1, they blow through and do not shatter the very, very strong plastic casing.
Darn! If it wasn't yours I can't recall who sent me the Photo, I do have a note that the pictured motor destroyed a micro Nike-Smoke on the date listed. If whoever sent in this photo would kindly give me a name It'd be appreciated. I'll be sure to print it on the photo.

MarkII

Well-Known Member
I have never seen a toothpick-induced Micromaxx cato. And I have been flying them for five years. Every FlisKit Micro To The Maxx kit that I have (and I have all of them) provides complete instructions on using the toothpick method with QMX igniters. We have been having this discussion for years, now. You have been clear and consistent in your disapproval of the method. And I have been clear and consistent in reporting no examples in my own launching of the things that you are concerned about. We live in parallel universes, I guess. I can't argue with your experiences; if you say that it happened, then it happened. I greatly respect your overall depth of experience and knowledge of rocketry, and I am aware of and I appreciate all of the advocacy that you have done on behalf of micro rocketry. But on this issue, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I know how I implement the method, and I have described it in great detail more than once. Blocking the nozzle throat and producing a cato with my implementation of the method is extremely unlikely. The toothpick just barely stays in as it is, which is the whole idea. A moderate cross-breeze will knock it out. I have had that happen to my rockets on a number of occasions. Trust me; I really do understand your concerns. But although you say that it is easy to break off the tip in the nozzle, I counter that it is quite easy (a no brainer, in fact) to avoid having that happen, once you understand what you are actually trying to do with the toothpick. I outline the procedure (which is quite simple) every time that we have this discussion.

Remember that you use the toothpick as a prop, not as a plug. If you placed a blob of clay at the base of the pad next to the launch rod, stuck a toothpick into it, and then lowered the rocket, with igniter in place, down onto the tip of the toothpick so that only the weight of the rocket pressing on the tip was what held the igniter in place, you would be accomplishing exactly what I describe. Not the most elegant of solutions, perhaps, but it is simple, it is safe and it works.

MarkII

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Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
I have never seen a toothpick-induced Micromaxx cato. And I have been flying them for five years. Every FlisKit Micro To The Maxx kit that I have (and I have all of them) provides complete instructions on using the toothpick method with QMX igniters. We have been having this discussion for years, now. You have been clear and consistent in your disapproval of the method. And I have been clear and consistent in reporting no examples in my own launching of the things that you are concerned about. We live in parallel universes, I guess. I can't argue with your experiences; if you say that it happened, then it happened. I greatly respect your overall depth of experience and knowledge of rocketry, and I am aware of and I appreciate all of the advocacy that you have done on behalf of micro rocketry. But on this issue, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I know how I implement the method, and I have described it in great detail more than once. Blocking the nozzle throat and producing a cato with my implementation of the method is extremely unlikely. The toothpick just barely stays in as it is, which is the whole idea. A moderate cross-breeze will knock it out. I have had that happen to my rockets on a number of occasions. Trust me; I really do understand your concerns. But although you say that it is easy to break off the tip in the nozzle, I counter that it is quite easy (a no brainer, in fact) to avoid having that happen, once you understand what you are actually trying to do with the toothpick. I outline the procedure (which is quite simple) every time that we have this discussion.

Remember that you use the toothpick as a prop, not as a plug. If you placed a blob of clay at the base of the pad next to the launch rod, stuck a toothpick into it, and then lowered the rocket, with igniter in place, down onto the tip of the toothpick so that only the weight of the rocket pressing on the tip was what held the igniter in place, you would be accomplishing exactly what I describe. Not the most elegant of solutions, perhaps, but it is simple, it is safe and it works.

MarkII

While I don't want do sound agrumentative about this subject, we do seem to have an issue that can't just be ignored, in your last sentance the use of the word "safe" is not honest, correct or benificial to new Micro Maxx flyers.
.
I've never personally seen a Estes X15 fly badly or and Unstable SSO, However I don't at every opportunity deny that these models have problems. I personally haven't "seen" lots of things but know that these things exist or happen by having been shown evidence that support the claims.
We've both been shown evidence of or seen first hand MMX Motor "Toothpick" related catos on numerous occasions. We've discussed it as mentioned time and again. Agreeing to disagree simply isn't good enough when someone elses model and/or safety are at risk by the use of this method.

The fact that ONLY the "Toothpick Method" of igniter retention has been Provenwith evidence to cause overpressureization Cato's in Micro Maxx motors is enough for me to make a concious effort NOT TO endorse the methods use.

That it works for you, the way you do it Mark is just fine, but it really shouldn't be a method anyone in good faith can endorse for others. I fully realize Fliskits has it in their insturction publications and Hope at sometime soon, in the near future that will change.
The Good news is; Cato's of all types are fairly uncommon. It's great that they only happen occasionally. Hopefully if we always make a point of stressing IF for some reason one must use a toothpick to support your igniter/model it should only be done with as little insert pressure as possible. My only dog in this fight is at it is a safety issue.

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MarkII

Well-Known Member
You go your way, and I'll go mine.

If I ever experience a toothpick-induced cato with one of my micros, you'll be the first to know. Count on it. It is pretty low on my list of worries though, a few spaces down from "Being abducted by E. T."

MarkII