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Proton-Zond

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dtomko

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Coming along nicely now, enough to be named in its own thread! Here are three of the pod cones on and the template for the interstage truss in place. I am going to tack the template to a piece of thin styrene and cut out the openings.
DT
 

astronboy

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It just hit me this morning (I was solving problems in my sleep again!!) .... that this must be the circumlunar ship... the Zond 5 or 6. Of course, as soon as I sign on, I find the question already answered!!!

Phred
 

dtomko

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Yep. Actually, Zonds 4 - 8 made it around the moon and back. However, reentry and parachute malfunctions doomed 4, 5, 6, and 8. A couple landed in the Indian Ocean. Only Zond 7 was recovered intact. Here's a shot of a Proton-Zond at liftoff.
DT
 

dtomko

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And my favorite shot of the P-Z. I'm not looking forward to making all those escape motor nozzles, though!
DT
 

vjp

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Nice work! How did you create the booster cones? It looks like you've pre-printed some panel detail on them.
 

dtomko

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I have been using a paper model of the Proton (not Zond) from Classic Paper Space Models. It's excellent and has key parts like those offset cones and the interstage truss work. There is a link from the Ninfinger Space Models site, but it's dead now, so I don't know the status or if there's another place you can download from. I have the Proton in a ZIP file if anyone is interested.
DT
 

dtomko

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Here's the nose section with the shrouds in place. One more bit of clean up and I'll glue them on.
DT
 

Karl

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Paper shrouds?! SANDMAN!!! :eek: :D
Only joking, that looks sweet! Those nosecones that are slightly on a angle look awesome! who made those? that isn't a normal lathe jobbie!
Karl
 

dtomko

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The only balsa in the whole thing is the dowel at the top! All of the shrouds and cones are paper. The offset ones I enlarged from a paper model of the Proton from Classic Paper Space Models The upper three I either cut down from an Estes shroud set or made myself through trial and error, including the nose cone. The largest BT is BT-55; the pods are BT-5, the uppermost section is BT-50, and the middle one is a cut-down BT-55. A BT-20 motor tube runs up through the interstage area.
DT
 

Bill

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Originally posted by dtomko
And my favorite shot of the P-Z. I'm not looking forward to making all those escape motor nozzles, though!
I wonder why they put an escape tower on an unmanned booster.

You probably need the nose weight anyway. How about putting a point on a dowel with a pencil sharpener, then cutting off the tip to use as a nozzle?


Bill
 

dtomko

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Bill,
The escape system was there because the Zond was a testbed for a manned lunar flight - Zond was sort of a stripped down Soyuz without the front module. Actually, several Zond flights carried animals around the moon.
I do need the nose weight and will glue in something in the capsule part. I thought of doing the pencil sharpener thing - just like Estes instructed on the old 1/70 Saturn 1B. I think there are 12 nozzles up there! May also try just rolling a bunch of paper cones and snipping off the tips.
Used Fill 'n Finish to do the spirals tonight and finished all of the pod cones.
I would really really like to fly this without clear fins. Any thoughts on whether the pods with cones would provide enough stability?
DT
 

jjnodice

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DT,

Great idea for a scale model! It's going to look excellent!

Any ideas where the CG will be?

I was looking for that very same paper model a few weeks ago! I had seen it months and months ago, but didn't download it at the time. Like you said, the link is now dead. The site can be reached using Wayback Machine, but the zip file is not accessible. Lesson learned -- download it immediately!

Could I take you up on the offer of getting a copy?

Thanks,

Jason
 

sandman

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How about putting a point on a dowel with a pencil sharpener, then cutting off the tip to use as a nozzle?
That's how I provided the 16 RMS nozzles on my Little Joe II kit.

I included a length of wood dowel and a cheap plastic pencil sharpener with my kits.

The four nozzles for the LJ II escape motor are much bigger so I made them on a heavier duty wall mounted pencil sharpener.

Worked great!
 

dtomko

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These nozzles will be tiny, so the pencil sharpener is probably the way to go.
Jason, PM me with an email address I can send the files to. They are on a disk I left at work, so I'll send them tomorrow.
It's too bad that site is no longer up; there were great free models of a bunch of rockets.
So who's going to convert the Currel paper N-1 to a flying model????
Drew
 

vjp

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Originally posted by dtomko
I would really really like to fly this without clear fins. Any thoughts on whether the pods with cones would provide enough stability?
DT
Drew-

The closest I've come to something like this was my 1/62 Vostok, which has strap-ons but only tiny, miniscule fins. By adding lots of nose weight to put the flight CG around the middle of the strap-on nose cones, it flies straight and true. The drawback is that all that extra mass limits performance (altitude). I have since found that I can actually move the CG back to the bottom of the booster nose cones and still it flies o.k. I didn't make the nose weight removable unfortunately (epoxy and BB's).

I think it will work, but I think you should do wind tunnel or swing tests to determine the absolute aftmost CG that will work, so you don't use more nose weight than necessary, hurting performance.
 

dtomko

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Thanks, Vince.
Probably the Vostok strap-ons add more stability than the Proton's, although it does kind of remind me of the Centuri Goove Tube! I've got lots of room up top for nose weight and I am definitely going to swing test it. It's a very light rocket with all that paper, so I should have a pretty good margin for adding nose weight.
Drew
 

BobH48

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Originally posted by dtomko
I would really really like to fly this without clear fins. Any thoughts on whether the pods with cones would provide enough stability?
DT
Drew,

I would think the pods would work with the correct nose weight.

I made a Soyuz out of cardstock and it flys just great with just the strap-on boosters.

Bob
 

dtomko

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Well, I couldn't get a pencil sharpener to work with the balsa dowels I had, so I trimmed with an Xacto and sanded smooth. Doing 12 nozzles was a pain, but they came out pretty well. Here's a shot of the escape tower on the capsule shroud.
DT
 

dtomko

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And a close up. Not perfect, but it will look good enough after a few coats of paint. Most of this is paper and white glue filler.
DT
 

dtomko

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Tubes with spirals filled, main tubes attached. I used the Classic Paper Space Models pieces for the second stage engine nozzles to partially cover the motor tube. They'll be much less visible after the interstage trusswork is attached. Two of the pods are fitted with the rear end caps.
DT
 

BobH48

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Drew,

That looks excellent. Can't wait to see the finished rocket.
 

dtomko

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I cut out the interstage trusswork from .015 styrene sheet, again using the part from the Classic Paper Space Models Proton as a guide. It was pretty tedious, but a sharp Xacto cut through the paper template and most of the styrene on one pass. Actually, I was a little over-enthusiastic and cut too much; there should be a band running around at the center of the trusswork. I'll add this later with a paper strip. Here's a shot of the test fitting. Still needs a bit of clean up. I painted the motor tube flat black to hide it.
DT
 

vjp

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Originally posted by dtomko
Actually, I was a little over-enthusiastic and cut too much; there should be a band running around at the center of the trusswork. I'll add this later with a paper strip.
...that's actually a good time-saving idea, much less cutting involved.
 

sandman

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dtomko,

Where do you find your documentation?

I can't seem to find any detail fotos or drawings for my Soyuz TM model.

PM me or post some sites if you would, please.

Great model BTW!;)
 

dtomko

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Sandman and others,
Thanks! As far as documentation goes, I don't have scale drawings. Steve (DumasBro2) has the Mike Dorffler CD-ROM of Russian launch vehicles and that does have drawings of the Protons (and a bunch of other stuff as well). I am pretty sure these are no longer available, but someone may be able to get drawings if you need. I have found a few drawings of Protons on the net; I bookmarked them on my other computer so I can get them tomorrow. I am working from drawings for my Energia/Buran, and these are pretty easy to find online. For the Proton, I am also using the Start 1/288 plastic model as a guide and the Quick Looks photos of the RealSpace/Rho Models resin 1/144 kit at the Ninfinger site. Since this is Sport Scale, I am not focusing on complete accuracy; and so far I think it looks like a Proton.
Here are 3 of the pods pretty much complete except for the dummy engine bells and turbopumps.
Drew
 

dtomko

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Added the conduit to the first and second stages. For the second stage, I sanded these from basswood strip. The first stage conduits are balsa, cut from sheet stock. I'm working on the interstage truss to thin the strips a little, which is tedious.
DT
 
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