Project Level Up (Proj. 018)

[Voyhager3]

Welp, I've decided I should try and go for my level one (hopefully) before I'm off to college. So that left me with the challenge of designing and building my rocket, and I decide no where better to start, than at the beginning of it all. Rocket 2.
The first rocket I made from "scratch", which meant it was mix of a salvaged nose cone and salvage engine mount (33mm-18mm) from the first rocket I ever had. I think it was called the triskelion or something, but that was broken by workers while construction was going on, i.e. fins were snapped, and the body tube was crushed. So when covid hit and I was bored I decided to make a new rocket out of those parts and out of a shipping tube I found that may have been a bit too think, but I made it work anyway. I made some basic fins, and made a parachute out of a garbage bag, and a few weeks later went and flew it. It went well so I decided to scale it up for my certification rocket. But before I do so I want to make a mid sized version just to get some more experience in, and prototype some fin techniques (will post later when that day comes around). So before I make the full sized 4in version (Rocket 2 XXL), I'm going to build a 66mm version which is a perfect 200% scale version that can fly on 24mm and 29mm motors. (Rocket 2 XL, below)

The parts are on the way for that and building will start on XL hopefully by next weeks end.
Rocket 2 XXL won’t start construction until the new year probably but I did snag that somewhat random 4in LOC slotted tube that apogee had in the garage sale section. So that’s a bonus.
(Rocket 2 XXL, below)

And yes they will have color accents of orange and grey once the time comes for better visibility.
So thoughts, opinions, and suggestions welcome!
And now that I think about it, I should probably join NAR or Tripoli…

 

[Hobie1dog]

looking good

 

[Voyhager3]

Stuff has arrived!
All of XL parts
And XXL body tube

 

[BABAR]

I may be wrong, but I think you HAVE to be a NAR or Tripoli member to GET certified level 1 . @Steve Shannon may correct me if I am wrong.

You will need a waiver to fly a high power rocket anyway, and I think these are challenging to come by outside of club launches. Of course, I am a mere L-0, so take this with appropriate skepticism.

Club membership has other benefits, most importantly camaraderie and free usually good advice from experienced rocketeers and access to flying fields.

Straight Trails!

 

[Steve Shannon]

I may be wrong, but I think you HAVE to be a NAR or Tripoli member to GET certified level 1 . @Steve Shannon may correct me if I am wrong.

You will need a waiver to fly a high power rocket anyway, and I think these are challenging to come by outside of club launches. Of course, I am a mere L-0, so take this with appropriate skepticism.

Club membership has other benefits, most importantly camaraderie and free usually good advice from experienced rocketeers and access to flying fields.

Straight Trails!

Yes, a person must belong to a certifying organization to be certified. The only two within the United States are Tripoli and NAR. Tripoli certifies people worldwide.

Also, because of slight differences between NFPA 1127 and the FAA amateur rocketry rules in FAR 101, it is possible to fly some smaller high power rockets without a waiver. Technically, you would need to be certified L1 or higher to buy the motors, but you wouldn’t need a COA to fly them.

 

[Voyhager3]

I may be wrong, but I think you HAVE to be a NAR or Tripoli member to GET certified level 1 . @Steve Shannon may correct me if I am wrong.

You will need a waiver to fly a high power rocket anyway, and I think these are challenging to come by outside of club launches. Of course, I am a mere L-0, so take this with appropriate skepticism.

Club membership has other benefits, most importantly camaraderie and free usually good advice from experienced rocketeers and access to flying fields.

Straight Trails!

Yes, a person must belong to a certifying organization to be certified. The only two within the United States are Tripoli and NAR. Tripoli certifies people worldwide.

Also, because of slight differences between NFPA 1127 and the FAA amateur rocketry rules in FAR 101, it is possible to fly some smaller high power rockets without a waiver. Technically, you would need to be certified L1 or higher to buy the motors, but you wouldn’t need a COA to fly them.

I plan on actually joining NAR later tonight and I won’t be going for my certification for a couple of months and I kinda assumed that I would have to do it at launch site and whatnot. But thanks for the re-affirmation!

 

[Voyhager3]

Fin Testing:
Material used in both: Balsa
Fin 1-
Standard method, 1/8" balsa

Tests:
Baseline: 0 lbs; 2" flat

Test 1: 2 lbs; Deflection ~1/8"

Test 2: 3 lbs; Defection ~7/32"

Test 3: 5 lbs; Deflection ~5/16"

Summary: It kinda flimsy

 

[Voyhager3]

Fin Testing (cont.):
Fin 2-
Custom Balsa plywood:

Standard 1/8" fin sandwiched between two 1/16" fins (w.o. tabs).​

One fin is vertical grain, and the other is horizontal grain​

Tests:
Baseline: 0 lbs; ~2 5/32"

Test 1: 2 lbs; Deflection ~1/32"

Test 2: 3 lbs; Deflection ~1/16"

Test 3: 5 lbs; Deflection ~3/32"

Summary: Not flimsy, which is good. It will probably be a slight pain to paint over the imperfections once I get there.
Quick note: I didn't test other plywood configs, i.e. just two standard method fins used as the sandwiching pieces. (A test for another day maybe). They were bonded with wood glue and a 10 lb weight

 

[BABAR]

I plan on actually joining NAR later tonight and I won’t be going for my certification for a couple of months and I kinda assumed that I would have to do it at launch site and whatnot. But thanks for the re-affirmation!

Well, they took me, so their standards aren’t TOO high!

 

[jqavins]

Suggested for your consideration: you could, if you'd like, use the XL for your cert flight. There are plenty of 29 mm H motors available, and a rocket for an H motor really does not need to be built like a tank.

Summary: Not flimsy, which is good. It will probably be a slight pain to paint over the imperfections once I get there.
Quick note: I didn't test other plywood configs, i.e. just two standard method fins used as the sandwiching pieces. (A test for another day maybe). They were bonded with wood glue and a 10 lb weight

Finishing will be a lot easier if you paper them. Label paper is fine as a finishing aid; printer paper applied with wood glue is good for finishing and some more strength and stiffness.

If you start to doubt that the balsa ply is adequate (though I bet it is), I would not bother with basswood, and go to birch ply. Basswood is great stuff, don't get me wrong, but making basswood ply (should you feel you need it) is just not worth the trouble, IMHO. (But even for an H motor, I'd bet good money that your 1/16 to 1/8 to 1/16 balsa ply, glue papered with 20 lb. or 24 lb. printer paper would be just fine. That said, I'd probably use the birch ply for the XL if built for an H motor flight. As a group, we have a tendency to over build, and I'm not immune. I'd use birch ply, all the while telling myself how unnecessary it is. )

 

[Voyhager3]

Suggested for your consideration: you could, if you'd like, use the XL for your cert flight. There are plenty of 29 mm H motors available, and a rocket for an H motor really does not need to be built like a tank.


Finishing will be a lot easier if you paper them. Label paper is fine as a finishing aid; printer paper applied with wood glue is good for finishing and some more strength and stiffness.

If you start to doubt that the balsa ply is adequate (though I bet it is), I would not bother with basswood, and go to birch ply. Basswood is great stuff, don't get me wrong, but making basswood ply (should you feel you need it) is just not worth the trouble, IMHO. (But even for an H motor, I'd bet good money that your 1/16 to 1/8 to 1/16 balsa ply, glue papered with 20 lb. or 24 lb. printer paper would be just fine. That said, I'd probably use the birch ply for the XL if built for an H motor flight. As a group, we have a tendency to over build, and I'm not immune. I'd use birch ply, all the while telling myself how unnecessary it is. )

I do wish I could do my L1 on XL, but, when was the last time you saw someone go for their L1 on a rocket that will go 3000ft+, and isn't even that big. Not that I won't someday shove a H motor in XL, because why not?! The main reason I wanted to test this balsa fins was to see if it would be easy to work with and still be sturdy enough to be scaled up. And with XXL I plan on adding some birch ply caps onto the side and training edges because those are still relativity easy to make with the tools I have. (and the ridiculous amount of balsa that I bought because at one point I thought I was going to build a balsa plane, I tried, and I didn't like it. So I'm trying to use it now. Got to try and save money somehow!) But I might use that skinning method to get that crisp finish when I get to painting XXL (I wanna go all out on that livery)

 

[jqavins]

OK, that's a fine plan, and you should do what feels right to you.

[W]hen was the last time you saw someone go for their L1 on a rocket that will go 3000ft+, and isn't even that big.

I did my own L1 on an Estes Big Daddy that I'd modified to take a CTI 3 grain case. Basswood (single ply) fins and centering rings, and a few other "adaptations" that aren't worth going into and I'd do differently if I were doing it today. It had a perfect up, and an acceptable down.

 

[Voyhager3]

OK, that's a fine plan, and you should do what feels right to you.


I did my own L1 on an Estes Big Daddy that I'd modified to take a CTI 3 grain case. Basswood (single ply) fins and centering rings, and a few other "adaptations" that aren't worth going into and I'd do differently if I were doing it today. It had a perfect up, and an acceptable down.

Let's just say in the past, I don't have the best recovery record, so I'm just trying to play it on the safer side...

 

[Sparkyflyer14]

You're inspiring me to get certified.

 

[Voyhager3]

I knew I was forgetting to something!
So many things have happened, and XL is almost done. Soooo of course I didn’t take any pictures :/.
But I guess nothing that eventful happened so whatever. I still need to add the rail buttons, then glue the aft centering ring, because I did epoxied fin tabs. Then add the motor mount. And add the final gloss white paint. But here is how it looked about 2 hours ago.

And here is Rocket 2 so far because I wanted to restore it before the launch this weekend (I think, nothing has been posted yet…)

But the final color coat for XL should almost be done so I guess I’ll post a picture in a bit

 

[Voyhager3]

Paint wise, im on the home stretch. I still need to do the white semigloss to fix some spots, but so far so good

 

[Rex R]

It doesn't need to be able to fly through a brick wall... Just land on one .

 

[Voyhager3]

*RANDOM*
He tried eating the shock cord…
I wonder what he’d do if I brought him to a launch… he does likes to chirp at airplanes…

 

[Voyhager3]

I wonder what my favorite color is…
Oh and Rocket 2 XL is done and Rocket 2 is also restored and ready to fly

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Looks a lot like my L1 rocket. It was scratch built, too. I built it about 20 years before I actually tried for my L1. I flew it on a LOT of G80's. Once I got my high power certification, I started flying on reloads a lot, esp. smokey motors. I extended the body tube (same fin shape), and used a 38mm motor mount for my L2 cert. This weekend, I plan on flying the original rocket on 24/60 reloads (with an adapter of course). I'm getting lazy and don't want to chase it very far.

 

[Voyhager3]

I forgot to update you guys again...
But R-2 XL has now been flown, not once, but twice!
Both were overall successful but they both had a notable incident.

I first flew it on a Estes E12-4 for the first flight and it went mostly well. The problem was that a 3 second delay would have been better since the deployment was a bit overdue for all of use at the range. But there was no damage so everything a ok for the next flight.

View attachment trim.BF3D4C3A-E894-4B77-813C-499C35928098.MOV
The second flight was on a Estes E16-4, this had a similar outcome, where the chute came out a bit late, but closer to apogee than before. This time the chute got burnt up because I guess I didn't wrap it up correctly, and then the lines got tangled, so I was, In Roy's words "a super streamer". But besides the parachute getting destroyed the rocket was still in a good condition.

View attachment trim.9B7A1A15-01CB-44C6-A79C-453466995F35.MOV
I have some of those new E35-5s by quest in the mail, along with a new chute, but overall, not bad.

 

[jqavins]

[T]he lines got tangled, so I was, In Roy's words "a super streamer.

I call that a streamachite. I was prepping a small LP rocket on Sunday and found it had four of six shroud lines detached. The remaining ones were adjacent. I thought, then shrugged, "Streamachute; it'll do."

 

[Voyhager3]

I think I'm going to move the L1 (R-2 XXL) build to a new thread, but I don't know yet. I'd do a poll but I don't think I can, so weigh in your thoughts below I guess.

 

[Hobie1dog]

thanks for the pictures and videos I'm hoping that it warms up so that I can meet you at the next lunch.