Quantcast

Powder and stuff

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Jeph

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
If someone is going for their level 1 cert, is there a safety issue with using colored chalk wrapped in some wadding as an added effect? Another idea is to affix some whistles to the fins like what Nerf uses on their footballs. All feedback welcome. Thanks.
 

Tonimus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,511
Reaction score
3
Lots of people use chalk for spotting. No issue there. Whistles on the fins are a neat idea, and as long as they're well attached, I see no issue.
 

aerostadt

Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
3,215
Reaction score
214
Location
Brigham City, UT
We had at least one long thread (it might have been 2 or 3) on whistles about 2 years ago. Several experimenters tended to think that in the LPR or MPR that the motor noise drowned out whistles. After the motors burn out the whistles are too far away to be heard (also, the rocket is going slower).
 

Jeph

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Alternatively, perhaps a train whistle attached to the nose cone? Lol. The lower note would carry better.
 

Mightyrocketman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
368
Reaction score
13
I put a nerf football whistle on the body of a Big Daddy. The whistle can be herd after motor burnout.
 

Onebadhawk

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
366
I really like the big poooffff you get from the colored chalk line chalk...
Did you know that all of the different colors actually mean something ???
They signify the permanency of the mark left by the chalk.....

PDAMHIKT.....

For those new...

( Please don't ask me how I know this ).....lol...

Teddy
 

ksaves2

Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
5,982
Reaction score
294
Whatever is used for "containing" the chalk, paper, wadding tissue, cardboard or whatever, needs to "open up" so the chalk is ejected. Alternatively, could put
a layer of chalk powder over a borate/borax treated cardboard "bulkhead and put a little wadding in, lower the cardboard circle down over the wadding, pour
in a layer of chalk, put the chute in. I find if the rocket goes really high, the puff seen is a colorless white cloud. If there is overcast, it's hard to see the "puff".
Down lower still well within "eyeshot", some perception of color might be appreciated. Ewwww ahhhhh, effect if any.

A long silver mylar streamer though they are fragile, one can reinforce the edges with scotch tape so it doesn't break, fanfold it to put creases in it and may roll it up on the shock cord. Even if there is a chute, when it unrolls, it will likely flash in the sunlight and one will see flashes even though they can't see the rocket.
Again, if there is overcast this might not work so well.

The powder gets into everything, the chute the chute protector the harness. The "powder" event is a one shot deal whereas the silver mylar streamer can flutter and reflect sunlight all the way down. Even if it's hanging limp on a harness that has a chute, it stands a chance to make a reflecting signal.

If there's room for a beeper add that and if it lands in tall vegetation, one stands a good shot of recovery. Add a handheld mapping GPS with a sight n' go feature, meaning you can shoot a line from the GPS to the descending rocket to lock in a datum to follow and one will have the best non-radio tracking rocket recovery
system for flights that land just inside ones limit of vision.

Walk the line on the mapping GPS until one hears the beeper and let the ears do the final "homing in".

I've had a two stage modroc that goes on an E9-0/C6-7 with a streamer but with a loud homemade beeper on the shockcord. Sometimes the streamer isn't seen but by golly I was looking to the south after launch one time (and I lost sight) sure enough, I hear the "screamer" and rattling of the streamer. I had to swing my head around to the north and saw the sustainer land a little ways in to standing corn. Didn't have the "sight n' go" GPS with me that day but I was able to visually lock a line. Walked into the corn and by golly, ones ears are a good homing device within 20 feet! Kurt
 
Last edited:

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
9,064
Reaction score
1,174
Location
Savannah Ga
Be sure when buying your chalk, NOT to buy permanent color. It will NOT come off anything it touches. Generally used in chalk boxes for laying out foundations so rain will not wash it off!

I just poured a generous amount into a paper towel lining a dixie cup or spray can lid. Once filled pull 4 corners together and twist the ends shut. Drop into rocket on top of recovery gear, so it is first thing out.

Orange & red are best seen. Someplace have a fluorescent color yellow or orange which is REAL visible, but a bit more costly.
 

scsager

Slightly burned-out old guy
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
1,768
Reaction score
67
...

The powder gets into everything, the chute the chute protector the harness. The "powder" event is a one shot deal whereas the silver mylar streamer can flutter and reflect sunlight all the way down. Even if it's hanging limp on a harness that has a chute, it stands a chance to make a reflecting signal.

If there's room for a beeper add that and if it lands in tall vegetation, one stands a good shot of recovery. ...
Kurt
+1 Great advise!!

Powdered chalk ejected at apogee is often used in NAR altitude competitions along with several "theodolite" stations. (visual altitude reporting method) Chalk can make a big mess, and does little to aid in recovery.

The Mylar streamer (think "party store" "Happy Birthday" banner) is an excellent idea. The beeper (personal alarm) can help too. The personal alarm works best for young people with excellent hearing. Once the beeper is on the ground, older folks, or people suffering from tinnitus, won't be able to distinguish the beeper from crickets etc. :)
 

rharshberger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
9,710
Reaction score
1,694
Location
Pasco, WA
Be sure when buying your chalk, NOT to buy permanent color. It will NOT come off anything it touches. Generally used in chalk boxes for laying out foundations so rain will not wash it off!

I just poured a generous amount into a paper towel lining a dixie cup or spray can lid. Once filled pull 4 corners together and twist the ends shut. Drop into rocket on top of recovery gear, so it is first thing out.

Orange & red are best seen. Someplace have a fluorescent color yellow or orange which is REAL visible, but a bit more costly.
While Red for certain is a "permanent" color, all of the chalk line chalks are difficult/ nearly impossible to completely remove from rockets permanent or not. I only use red and blue in construction so I dont remember which other colors are permanent.
 

ksaves2

Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
5,982
Reaction score
294
+1 Great advise!!

Powdered chalk ejected at apogee is often used in NAR altitude competitions along with several "theodolite" stations. (visual altitude reporting method) Chalk can make a big mess, and does little to aid in recovery.

The Mylar streamer (think "party store" "Happy Birthday" banner) is an excellent idea. The beeper (personal alarm) can help too. The personal alarm works best for young people with excellent hearing. Once the beeper is on the ground, older folks, or people suffering from tinnitus, won't be able to distinguish the beeper from crickets etc. :)
Look for "Pot" growing supplies. Errrrrr, indoor gardening supplies. One is supposed to line their grow area walls with the silver metallized mylar for indoor growing of "garden" plants with internal reflection of light. A roll of the thicker stuff will last several fliers a lifetime to be passed down in the family! Kurt
 

Onebadhawk

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
366
Be sure when buying your chalk, NOT to buy permanent color. It will NOT come off anything it touches. Generally used in chalk boxes for laying out foundations so rain will not wash it off!

I just poured a generous amount into a paper towel lining a dixie cup or spray can lid. Once filled pull 4 corners together and twist the ends shut. Drop into rocket on top of recovery gear, so it is first thing out.

Orange & red are best seen. Someplace have a fluorescent color yellow or orange which is REAL visible, but a bit more costly.
That's what I did Capt Jim...
How do you tink I found out the red is permanent...
And when they say permanent,,, they mean permanent....
It got all over the whole rocket...lol...

Teddy
 

rharshberger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
9,710
Reaction score
1,694
Location
Pasco, WA
From Irwins FAQ about their chalkline powders, "Blue chalk is considered a non-permanent color. It can many times wash away but on some surfaces it can be permanent. If used indoors I always recommend white if possible. All other colors red, orange, green, yellow and black are permanent colors. It is nearly impossible to remove them. Choose your chalk color based upon permanancy, contrast to surface it's being used on."

The stuff apogee sells is supposedly washable, but that's mainly for your clothes (I believe), who wants to get water near a cardboard competition model (I know there are FAI SD and PD models made from FG).
 

Onebadhawk

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
366
They use a numbering system Rich,,
No's 1 thru 5..
Each one more permanent then the last..
Red is the most permanent..

Teddy
 

rharshberger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
9,710
Reaction score
1,694
Location
Pasco, WA
They use a numbering system Rich,,
No's 1 thru 5..
Each one more permanent then the last..
Red is the most permanent..

Teddy
The numbering must be a newer thing, I have been using chalk lines for over thirty years and didn't realize until now that there was actually a white chalk and black chalk for them. I have almost always had one chalk box each of red and blue, occasionally I have had one that I used orange in, of course newer could mean in the last twenty years since when purchasing chalk I look at the color, and have honestly never read the chalk bottles.
 

Onebadhawk

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
6,063
Reaction score
366
haha,,
Rich you're dating yourself...
Me too,,
I used chalk line refill for years until I got the idea to use it as an apogee marker pooff...
That's when I got it all over a nice rocket,, it wouldn't come off,, and I looked into it...

Teddy
 

ksaves2

Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
5,982
Reaction score
294
That's what I did Capt Jim...
How do you tink I found out the red is permanent...
And when they say permanent,,, they mean permanent....
It got all over the whole rocket...lol...

Teddy
Folks who fly apogee deployed marking smoke like this for example have the same lamentation: http://sportsmoke.com/

The smoke, even if deployed at altitude, gets into the recovery laundry if still burning when the main comes out. This stuff is pricey but the gist of the
matter is it burns cool enough to attach to the recovery harness and with judicious placement of the pull ring, gets activated at deployment.

I've never witnessed a flight like that but others have said the effect at high altitude is interesting. Kurt
 

manixFan

Not a rocket scientist
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
1,909
Reaction score
883
Location
TX
I used to use talcum powder as a kid but hated the smell. I tried powered tempura paint and if you think chalk is permanent, well that stuff was at least as bad.

I've tried mylar (in a wide variety of form factors) and it's very hit or miss, most times a miss, even in the Texas sun where it seems like it would really show up.

A beeper is good if you have a good heading on where it landed and does increase the odds someone else may find it while out looking for their rocket. But make sure it is easily disabled or you'll be poorly regarded at the LCO table if someone drops it off still beeping.

The real question is what is your goal? Are your truly concerned about recovery or just trying to be different? If it's a Cert flight I would just stick to the basics and get it done. No point in making it harder than it has to be. And if you are planning on flying a rocket that you'll lose sight and you don't have a tracker, I would reconsider your flight profile.


Tony
 

dford

Tada
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
330
Reaction score
1
I fly to just under 4000 feet with red chalk line powder. Everytime it is out of site, I may or may not see tracking smoke but the powder poof is definitely visible.
No doubt it makes a mess to clean up, but the orange chute I use is visible (and dirty) and I have visual all the way to the ground.
Some powders are combustible. Be careful what you use.
 

GregGleason

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
4,646
Reaction score
3
I put a lot of baby powder in the chute, and as mentioned above make sure that it is talc-based and not corn starch-based. Corn starch is combustible at certain concentrations in the air (it's why some grain elevators explode).

Greg
 
Top