Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV)

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Funkworks

Low Earth Orbit, obstructing Earth's view of Venus
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
5,379
Reaction score
6,054
Just found this great table showing the towing capacity for many PHEV SUVs. I think it might interest a few people.

Make and model (hybrid and PHEV)Tow capacity
BMW 530e750kg
BMW X5 xDrive 40e2700kg
Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid800kg
Hyundai Ioniq Plug-in Hybrid750kg
Mercedes-Benz GLC300e2000kg
Mini Countryman PHEVNot rated to tow
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV1500kg
Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid3500kg
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid3000kg
Range Rover/Range Rover Sport PHEV2500kg
Toyota RAV4 Hybrid480kg (2WD), 1500kg (AWD)
Volvo XC40 Recharge PHEV1800kg
Volvo XC60 T8 PHEV2100kg
Volvo XC90 Recharge PHEV2400kg

https://evcentral.com.au/complete-guide-to-towing-with-a-hybrid-phev-or-ev/
Missing because they are newer or maybe not released quite yet:

Kia Sorento PHEV
Kia Sportage PHEV
Hyundai Tucson PHEV
Hyundai Santa Fe PHEV
Jeep Wrangler 4xe PHEV

And just to be clear on how to use a PHEV:

When you’re 1-2 people in the car doing errands, you switch it to EV mode and minimize consumption.

When you’re hauling over a long distance, you switch it to Hybrid mode.

:computer:
 
Last edited:
And the RAV4 Prime is missing. It’s 1000 lbs for an unbraked trailer and 2500 lbs for a trailer with brakes. The Toyota factory wiring package is only 4-wires, so that’s the unbraked limit.
 
My wife has had a Rav4 Prime for a few months and loves it too. She has bought 1 tank of gas in 2000 miles. Electric usage did not increase too much over same time last year. Certainly not enough to account for the 40ish gallons of gas she didn't burn. The thing drives really nicely in electric mode too. I didn't expect it to be much different than my Rav4 Hybrid, but the instant on power is notably different.

It's great that it is day-to-day functionally an electric car, but without any zero road trip/range anxiety. Forget to charge it for a few days or need to take a trip, and it just works like a hybrid when the battery depletes to a certain point. That said, they aren't shy about the price premium over the standard hybrid. You can't make a purely economic case for the Prime versus the normal hybrid.
 
My wife has had a Rav4 Prime for a few months and loves it too. She has bought 1 tank of gas in 2000 miles. Electric usage did not increase too much over same time last year. Certainly not enough to account for the 40ish gallons of gas she didn't burn. The thing drives really nicely in electric mode too. I didn't expect it to be much different than my Rav4 Hybrid, but the instant on power is notably different.

It's great that it is day-to-day functionally an electric car, but without any zero road trip/range anxiety. Forget to charge it for a few days or need to take a trip, and it just works like a hybrid when the battery depletes to a certain point. That said, they aren't shy about the price premium over the standard hybrid. You can't make a purely economic case for the Prime versus the normal hybrid.

Don't forget there's a $7500 tax credit for the Prime.
 
Hyundai Tucson and Kia Sportage PHEV seem to be missing...
I added them and a few others after the table (which is from late 2021).

And the RAV4 Prime is missing. It’s 1000 lbs for an unbraked trailer and 2500 lbs for a trailer with brakes. The Toyota factory wiring package is only 4-wires, so that’s the unbraked limit.
True. It only lists the "Hybrid".
"Prime" is Toyota's way of saying "PHEV".

My truck can only tow about 10,000kg.
But it’s not a PHEV
Maybe no one made a 10,000 kg towing PHEV yet :questions:

British, but short and includes everything as far as I'm concerned:



In my words: everything an ICE car has, plus a place to plug.
 
Cool.
Would like to see it with the jet engine running.
Did you see the flutter on the shroud?
Hipercar!
Nana,nana,nana,nana
Hee hee hee! Yup! Still not a production version but sooo fun looking, what's not to like! I think if they make it to production, it will be an instant classic!
 
My wife was thinking about getting a new car and she wondered if she should buy an all electric. For several reasons I don't think all electric is practical for some people, I thought at this time a PHEV was the best of both worlds. Unfortunately almost all of them are SUV, almost none are sedans.
 
My wife was thinking about getting a new car and she wondered if she should buy an all electric. For several reasons I don't think all electric is practical for some people, I thought at this time a PHEV was the best of both worlds. Unfortunately almost all of them are SUV, almost none are sedans.
Honda Clarity, Hyundai Ioniq and Toyota Prius Prime are sedan PHEVs.
 
Last edited:
For those of you with hybrids, have you had any trouble that required a dealer to repair the issue?

My experience with the hybrid we had, was that the people at the dealer service departments knew precious little about these cars. The electronics associated with dividing power between engine/electric, transmission control, braking, etc., seemed to be voodoo to the service department.

We had it sit at a dealer for most of a month to get diagnosed, that dealer couldn't figure it out, then we had to have it towed to two other dealers before we found someone who could identify the issue.
 
To me the only advantage of a PHEV over an EV is the peace of mind that you have a backup motor if your battery juice runs out.
Smaller battery than a full EV, smaller gas motor than a full ICE. So you compromise on both.
Higher maintenance costs for servicing two motors.
People run out of gas in ICEs because they're not monitoring the fuel gauge, or they're trying to "push it".
Same thing with EVs. Just keep an eye on the gauge.
If you run out of gas/power call a tow truck, go to the nearest charger/gas station, and fill/juice up.
I've been driving gas powered cars for 50 years and have never run out of gas.
 
Last edited:
Honda Clarity, Hyundai Ioniq and Toyota Prius Prime are sedan PHEVs.
I think Volvo also makes at least one model.
I wouldn't buy a Prius if it was the only automobile available, and I'm not real keen on Hyundai.
If she gets real serious about a new car I'll have to look at what is available at the time. She might have to rethink the aversion to SUVs.

To me the only advantage of a PHEV over an EV is the peace of mind that you have a backup motor if your battery juice runs out.
I can't say I've never run out of gas.
I've seen a few photos on the net of Teslas setting on the side of the road connected to gas generators.
My wife doesn't drive much, but occasionally we make long trips. Real world, this is not completely practical this day and time for an EV. I've read enough accounts by pro-EV writers who have tried this and had numerous problems.
And of course there are situations where electricity isn't available, such as currently in Florida. And last winter when we had no electricity at our house for 4 days.
 
Last edited:
I think Volvo also makes at least one model.
I wouldn't buy a Prius if it was the only automobile available, and I'm not real keen on Hyundai.
If she gets real serious about a new car I'll have to look at what is available at the time. She might have to rethink the aversion to SUVs.


I can't say I've never run out of gas.
I've seen a few photos on the net of Teslas setting on the side of the road connected to gas generators.
My wife doesn't drive much, but occasionally we make long trips. Real world, this is not completely practical this day and time for an EV. I've read enough accounts by pro-EV writers who have tried this and had numerous problems.
And of course there are situations where electricity isn't available, such as currently in Florida. And last winter when we had no electricity at our house for 4 days.
What's caused the strong dislike of the Prius specifically?
 
My wife was thinking about getting a new car and she wondered if she should buy an all electric. For several reasons I don't think all electric is practical for some people, I thought at this time a PHEV was the best of both worlds. Unfortunately almost all of them are SUV, almost none are sedans.
I settled on a used 2019 Hyundai Ionic PHEV. It had a dent on the body, but when I noticed that the battery had full state of health after 2 years, that was the selling point. I wasn't sure enough about the charging network being ready for the road trips I have to do, so I went with a PHEV, but in practice I mostly ride on EV mode because my daily trips are short.

For those of you with hybrids, have you had any trouble that required a dealer to repair the issue?
I was lucky to find my used PHEV Hyundai at a Hyundia dealership, and since I committed to keep it for 10 years or until the battery "dies", I added the best and longest warranty they offered. It did serve me when the "battery management system" (BMS) had issues ("service engine soon" light went on). Unfortuntely, the people I get to meet at the shop aren't keen on explaining exactly what the issue was.

My experience with the hybrid we had, was that the people at the dealer service departments knew precious little about these cars. The electronics associated with dividing power between engine/electric, transmission control, braking, etc., seemed to be voodoo to the service department.
Yup. Internet forums help when you want to go deeper.

To me the only advantage of a PHEV over an EV is the peace of mind that you have a backup motor if your battery juice runs out.
Smaller battery than a full EV, smaller gas motor than a full ICE. So you compromise on both.
Higher maintenance costs for servicing two motors.
People run out of gas in ICEs because they're not monitoring the fuel gauge, or they're trying to "push it".
Same thing with EVs. Just keep an eye on the gauge.
If you run out of gas/power call a tow truck, go to the nearest charger/gas station, and fill/juice up.
I've been driving gas powered cars for 50 years and have never run out of gas.
The advantage of a PHEV is you don't need gasoline for daily driving (my 25 mile/day battery is actually enough), and if you need to make a long trip, it's still very efficient as a hybrid car.

Service isn't really higher because you still do the same mileage in a year. The electrical system needs practically no maintenance, and the ICE system runs less than a full ICE. However, I did get the garantee because while it doesn't need maintenance, the battery system is expensive if you randomly happen to get a dud, or don't know how it will behave in 7 years.

To avoid running out of charge, you charge overnight, and when on the road, instead of looking for road signs advertising gas stations, you look at neat smartphone apps, preferably ahead of time. At first, you drive from one station to the other, doing errands there instead of elsewhere, until you learn where all the local stations are. Then you can gradually wean away from them.

If you don't plan on charging daily at home or work, get a regular hybrid instead of a PHEV. Carrying a big battery is only efficient if the battery carries itself.

I wouldn't buy a Prius if it was the only automobile available, and I'm not real keen on Hyundai.
What's caused the strong dislike of the Prius specifically?

Reasons why I picked a Hyundai over the Prius: I had a Hyundai as a student and it didn't fail me in 4 years, the 2019 Ionic had better numbers and reviews than the 2019 Prius, it's better looking than the Prius (IMO), it drives better, it has no reputation, and I'm annoyed that Toyota actively holds back progress in EVs in various ways (Toyota could have lead the way but chose not to).
 
Last edited:
I never looked at Kia very much, but if I needed something shortly, I'd probably take a look at this one:

https://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/medi...ca-announces-2023-niro-plug-in-hybrid-pricing
Alex on Autos just put up a video on the 2023 Niro PHEV. 33 miles all electric range, which would be enough for much of our local driving.

I’ve been philosophically opposed to PHEVs as putting two drive trains in one car with all the requirements of both and wondering if it’s worth it….but I’m warming to the idea even after living with a (shortish-range) BEV for over six years now.

I have a 2023 Ford Maverick hybrid pickup on order (though heaven only knows if/when we will get it) so I’ve broken through my own resistance to hybrids overall.
 
Alex on Autos just put up a video on the 2023 Niro PHEV. 33 miles all electric range, which would be enough for much of our local driving.

I’ve been philosophically opposed to PHEVs as putting two drive trains in one car with all the requirements of both and wondering if it’s worth it….but I’m warming to the idea even after living with a (shortish-range) BEV for over six years now.

I have a 2023 Ford Maverick hybrid pickup on order (though heaven only knows if/when we will get it) so I’ve broken through my own resistance to hybrids overall.
One way to look at a hybrid is as a gas car that takes back braking energy (and uses it). So the second drivetrain is just something they add to store and use braking energy (not a complete picture, but the basis of "my" philosophy). If one were to say "why don't I take back some of that wasted brake heat to drive the car?", they'd end up with a hybrid.

A PHEV is the same but it can additionally take energy from a plug (so the battery is bigger).
 
Last edited:
Back
Top