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FOUND Photos Of Minwax Wood Hardener's Labeling

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K'Tesh

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A single bottle of Minwax Wood Hardener on Taobao goes for over 300 (in many cases over 350) RMB. This puts it in the $45-$50 USD range. Problem is, according to my coworkers, nobody (zero... nada...) has purchased it on Taobao, and thus the vendors are suspect. Then there's the time to wait for it to ship to China (as it mails from the US). I've yet to find a vendor on Amazon that can ship it to me. So, I'm looking for an indigenous product that is basically the same product. Good luck explaining that to my coworkers so they can help in the hunt. I'm now thinking of glassing my Excel, Excelerator, and Velociraptor, and all work on those has stopped.

I posted my frustration on FB, and I've had a reply that says that it's basically a thin CA. In looking at the Consumer Safety Data Sheets, I see only that it has Acetone and Methanol.

If it is really just a CA, I'm suspecting that the two products are used to prevent it from kicking like other CA glues. Now I'm looking for confirmation of this. The only thing I can think of is to use the label, but of course all the photos I've seen of it show the front, and not the fine print on the back.

Could someone take a few shots of it and help me out.

*IF* it really is a CA, China has a thin CA glue (502 Glue) which I might be able to score cheaply, and mix my own "wood hardener".

Thanks!
Jim
 

Wallace

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How big of a bottle are we speaking of? MSDS shows the "important to healthcare providers" ingredients. But similar to a patent they must be kept vague otherwise you're simply handing out your recipe. You may very well be onto something though.Testing carefully would be in order..
 

dhbarr

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It is almost certainly not CA. Whatever the other 25% is it's not hot enough to show on the SDS. There's some suggestion it's just dissolved acrylic.
 

K'Tesh

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Thanks for the images Tbmx3. Sadly, there's no really useful info on the can... Dang.

How big of a bottle are we speaking of? MSDS shows the "important to healthcare providers" ingredients. But similar to a patent they must be kept vague otherwise you're simply handing out your recipe. You may very well be onto something though.Testing carefully would be in order..
The same size as shown in Tbmx3's photos.

That's what I'm thinking about.

It is almost certainly not CA. Whatever the other 25% is it's not hot enough to show on the SDS. There's some suggestion it's just dissolved acrylic.
IINM CA is an acrylic.

[EDIT] From Wikipedia:
In general, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together. Because the presence of moisture causes the glue to set, exposure to normal levels of humidity in the air causes a thin skin to start to form within seconds, which very greatly slows the reaction. Because of this cyanoacrylate is applied thinly, to ensure that the reaction proceeds rapidly for bonding.[citation needed]
 
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Wallace

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Gotcha. Computer's a bit slow tonight so no pic's. Only reason I asked is a large bottle of CA is not cheap.
 

dhbarr

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Yes, but if that 25% was CA we'd expect to see, for example, 2-Octyl cyanoacrylate or 2.2 n-Butyl cyanoacrylate on the MSDS.

Now you've got me very curious what's in there, can't be epoxy either for similar reasons.
 

Gary Byrum

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Unfortunately, you are looking for forbidden information. All Minwax is required to reveal is the use of acetone and methanol. The remainder fall into product protection/secrecy. Got this link from their website. A little lengthy read but it should help you see why you aren't supposed to know what's really in it.

https://www.minwax.com/document/SDS/en/US/027426417007
 

K'Tesh

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Gotcha. Computer's a bit slow tonight so no pic's. Only reason I asked is a large bottle of CA is not cheap.
A large bottle of CA is not cheap... In the US... However, it's much cheaper than a bottle of Minwax Wood Hardener being sent to China.
 

Wallace

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So that explains the funky currency conversions. Didn't realize you were in China. So you can't just run to Harbor freight then:rolleyes:
 

Wallace

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I'd happily send ya some but we'd probably both just end up is prison for some inane tariff reason. Maybe testing on your end really is in order. I've had so/so luck with straight thin ca. Usually a rough, almost unsandable finish.
 

dhbarr

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Unfortunately, you are looking for forbidden information. All Minwax is required to reveal is the use of acetone and methanol. The remainder fall into product protection/secrecy. Got this link from their website. A little lengthy read but it should help you see why you aren't supposed to know what's really in it.

https://www.minwax.com/document/SDS/en/US/027426417007
I'm well familiar with reading SDS, my point was that the other 25% can't be anything that causes even substantial irritation or they'd have to list at least approximate ranges.
 

Kelly

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My understanding was that this product was just PMMA (polymethyl methacrylate, AKA plexiglass) dissolved in a suitable solvent. If you have time to experiment, you could grab a chunk of plexiglass and some MEK and see if that produces similar results as the minwax product.
 

lowga

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Can someone help me out with this thread? What is the purpose of the Minwax Wood Hardener? It's readily available here at Lowes. But I have no idea how it can help with rocketry. Newbie question I know...
 

Scott_650

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Folks have tried it in place of dope/sanding sealer/wood filler to make balsa nose cones and fins smoother - filling in the wood pores and grain. Results have been mixed. YMMV. :)
 

jlabrasca

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Can someone help me out with this thread? What is the purpose of the Minwax Wood Hardener? It's readily available here at Lowes. But I have no idea how it can help with rocketry. Newbie question I know...
It does what is says on the tin -- it hardens wood. Also paper.

dhbarr did some interesting experiments

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/wood-hardener-vs-thin-ca.133704/

I got the ASP 2.6 "W" balsa nose cone for a semi-scale BT-80 WAC Corporal build. I soaked it in wood hardener, to try to toughen up that long fragile point. It sort of worked. The rocket has had two hard landings in the desert, and one hard landing on the shop floor -- and lots of rides around in the car. The tip is bent and dinged up, but still sharp.

After dhbarr, I also tried soaking BT20 tube in wood hardener. The tube shrank just enough that I could no longer slide an 18mm motor into it. I haven't revisited that experiment.
 

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